It's November now, and we are STILL referencing to a score that came out during May. I admit to being a devout Zimmer fan, but objectively I think just by the sheer size of interests in his Gladiator score Zimmer should receive the 2000 Award for being most influential in bringing film scores to a somewhat mainstream audience. Titanic was the previous title holder, but in a sense Horner "betrayed" the film composing community because he needed Celine to make that transition, whereas Zimmer indirectly paid homage through employing the works of a fellow composer (Holst). But what do I know. I just listen to the music.

...but for the most part, the "debates" seem to only lie between the real film score nerds

I don't think any score this year has really ushered in the number of fans Titanic did. Maybe Dinosaur by James Newton Howard, but that's all I can think of.

-Brendan

The same thing happened last year with Horner's soporific Titanic. But we must remember that Back Street Boys, Hanson and Maddona cause the same effect on the pop community...

This phenomena has nothing to do with art, but with the amount of money these movies make on the box office and the amount of exposure they get from the official media.

but that said, the album has sold very well indeed, regardless of one's opinion of the music, just like Titanic (no, not selling exactly the numbers, but still, the point is the same).

if it takes something as "lame" as Gladiator to get the word out, so be it.

Gladiator was also a widespread score. On our local (Maltese) small scale, Gladiator was the first score I had seen on the island's top 30 CDs since Titanic and Braveheart.

Then again, Gladiator was more important than anything else here this year, due to all the buzz we had when they filmed here in '99, and the thousands of extras who took part.

Curious fact - Luscious' servant - the guy who tells the little boy it's time to go when he's speaking to Maximus before the Barbarian Horde display, is a close friend of my brother.

***Warning: Personal opinions about music (a.k.a. complaining/"whining") below! ***

Unfortunately, I think that Horner's lah-te-dah Titanic score, complete with that Canadian woman, is the "most exposed score."

I agree that Star Wars and Jaws are well recognized. I'd like to see Jay Leno do one of those "quiz on the street" deals to see how much a random person in LA knows about film music themes. They might think the theme from BTTF sounds familiar, but I'm sure very few people would be able to name the movie it was composed for.

On a personal note, I don't even have a clue what the Gladiator sounds like.

----
Are you sure you want to keep reading? I don't want to offend anybody here with my opinion...
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In a world (or is it just the USA?) full of not-so-good (and really bad -- Who let those stupid dogs out?) modern 'pop' music, I'm so glad that there is movie music. Today's songs are thrown together and performed by people that appear to have little talent. I can't even tap my foot to the beat of the crap out there today. "What's a time signature?"

Sorry, but I get a tad bit pissy when potshots are taken at non English speaking
members for their grammatical or spelling errors. Challenge opinions or behavior, but not the language. This Board is
chock full to brimming over with writing mistakes by AMERICANS, and
I really don’t care about those arrows..ahhh, errors. What I care about
is that I understand what’s being communicated, that I’m learning from
others, and that I’m free to express my opinions. True, I don’t support
rudeness; however, I’m eternally grateful for our international members and
for their school systems that insist they express themselves in more than
one language.

We Americans who live in glass houses have little write, wright, right to
throw stones.

NP E.T.

quote:

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Originally posted by joan hue:

Sorry, but I get a tad bit pissy when potshots are taken non English speaking
members for their grammatical or spelling errors.

---

I can't agree with you more.

The point of a language is to communicate with others, and I have no problem at all reading Andre's posts. Cole really shouldn't be commenting on the grammar of other people, since he doesn't even capitalize his "I"s or the first letter of every sentence.

Oh yeah, Ich sprechen nicht gut Deutsch!, or something.

Andre is from Brasil. English is not his native tongue.

Other internationals who are bilingual include Thor and Marian. (And I think the well-spoken N. Zwar is from Germany. ??)I'm sure others exist.

I have disagreed at times with Andre, but I admire his attempts and ability to communicate on American boards. I'd rather the opinion or tone be challenged or debated than the English. Just my two cents worth.

quote:

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Originally posted by jonathan_little:

Oh yeah, [b]Ich sprechen nicht gut Deutsch!, or something.[/B]

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Whilst I broadly agree with your sentiments, let’s not go overboard in our criticism of any perceived misuse of the English language by some American message board members.

The English language is as commonly bastardized here in Britain as it is anywhere else in the world; but such misuse of the English language often has little to do with literacy, and the correct use of grammar is not necessarily a reflection of intelligence, just as there is nothing clever about the purposeful misuse of the English language. All that matters is the ability of the individual to communicate his opinion, and only a rudimentary knowledge of English grammar and spelling is necessary to fulfil that aim in the context of message board discussion. At the end of the day, the English language is easy to learn, but impossible to master.

There are two main reasons why I have been moved to respond to your words, Joan. The first is your apparent interpretation of the English language as being just like any other. English is taught in schools throughout the world because it is the international language of commerce, diplomacy, and so much more. People in far off places desire to learn the English language in their schools. Indeed, in all of the countries that comprise the British Commonwealth and many others besides, English is either the first or second language. But it works both ways. British schools also have a fine tradition in teaching foreign languages, most notably French, Spanish and German. Not only that, though the Celtic nations of Britain (Wales, Ireland and Scotland) have English as their first language, every effort is being made to keep the old Celtic languages alive. On top of that, now that Britain is a truly multi-cultural and ethnically diverse nation, over fifty other languages are spoken in Britain and each is optionally taught in British schools.

But it is the English language that oils the wheels of global progression, not French, not German and not Portuguese. This is not to denigrate those languages, though English is renowned for its broad compass and flexibility. Indeed, English more than any other language is a composite of many of the world’s other languages, most notably French and German. The English language (like the British people) is a great anglicizer – it has the flexibility to incorporate diverse and alien words and phrases, like no other language. The English language is a lasting reflection of historical British global influence. To survive, the English language (and the British Empire) had to adapt and progress, as well as impose itself. I recently viewed BOPHA!, a movie set in early 80s South Africa. This movie depicted the students of a peaceful township rebelling against the white authorities for the right to be taught in English, rather than Afrikaner in their schools. To these maligned people, the English language was a powerful symbol of enlightenment, freedom and progression towards a nation free of Afrikaans oppression.

Secondly Joan, your defence of Andre Lux’s occasionally incorrect use of English is both laudable and misplaced. As I have said, though I agree with your sentiments, many of us have come to realize that Andre is a far more intelligent and reasonable man, and is far more proficient in the use of English, than many of his postings would seem to indicate, and that a large proportion, if not the majority of his spelling and grammatical mistakes are intentional. Whilst I have no problem with Andre’s intentional bastardizations of the English language, I do not believe that one should characterize such distortions as a virtue.

Indeed, to defend the interests of those board members whose first language may be German, French, Portuguese or whatever, one should not seek to undermine the global importance and value of the English language.

quote:

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Originally posted by DANIEL2:

Secondly Joan, your defence of Andre Lux’s occasionally incorrect use of English is both laudable and misplaced. As I have said, though I agree with your sentiments, many of us have come to realize that Andre is a far more intelligent and reasonable man, and is far more proficient in the use of English, than many of his postings would [b]seem to indicate, and that a large proportion, if not the majority of his spelling and grammatical mistakes are intentional. Whilst I have no problem with Andre’s intentional bastardizations of the English language, I do not believe that one should characterize such distortions as a virtue.
[/B]

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Mr. Gibberish2,

Did you ask for my permission to talk about me on this messageboard?
I don't think so. Now, go back to the dungeon where you live and don't pick your nose.

As for your ludicrous comments about my "intentional spelling erros" (sic)I can only LOL at your face - again! Indeed I am impressed that you believe on that. Just another proof that all your "theories" are indeed the work of a pitiful lunatic's mind.

Anyway I am glad you think I am such an "intelligent and reasonable man".
Thanks lad. Too bad I cannot say the same about you...

But what else is news!

"THE BOOK IS ON THE TABLE
DANIEL2 IS IN THE TOILET"

Now that you’ve stopped foaming at the mouth, please allow me to apologize for not consulting you before referring to you in the above post….after all, I am sure you consult all of those people you refer to in your postings, before saying such nice things about them.

Speaking of Zimmer….I would have thought Zimmer was spelt Zimmer in any language. Therefore, judging by the number of times you misspell his name, my theory that many of your spelling and grammatical errors are intentional is reinforced.

Either way, whether your misspellings of Zimmer and, strangely, other composers that you do not seem too fond of are intentional, genuine or simply out of sheer laziness, it matters little.

I think you understood that I wasn’t saying that poor English was a virtue.
I simply advocate that we “cut a little slack” to those on this Board who are
not speaking in their native languages. My daughter majored in International
Business and Spanish in college. She could write and read Spanish but was
a poor speaker, so she attended college in Costa Rica for a semester. Neither
her host family nor her professors spoke English. She was teased a lot for
her awkward phraseology and reliance on a Spanish dictionary, but it
was good natured chiding. This is a girl who would NOT say, “Me and
him are going to town, and it don’t matter,” in English. She freely admits,
however, that she may not correctly conjugate a Spanish verb and will
make errors, but at least she can make herself understood in another language.

I received an e mail from a foreign friend the other day, and she wrote,
“Sudden I found it.” Forgetting the ly in an adverb seems minor compared
to her ability to communicate in English. I’m merely supporting a little
tolerance from our own rather monolingual society.

I couldn't agree more.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DANIEL2:

Andre Lux

Speaking of Zimmer….I would have thought Zimmer was spelt Zimmer in any language. Therefore, judging by the number of times you misspell his name, my theory that many of your spelling and grammatical errors are intentional is reinforced.

Either way, whether your misspellings of Zimmer and, strangely, other composers that you do not seem too fond of are intentional, genuine or simply out of sheer laziness, it matters little.

---

Oh, Damiel2 you don't need to apologize. In fact you just gave me another good laugh with your analysys of the way I write Ham Zimer.
Now, please, stop picking your nose while you read this, ok?

But them again, I tought Hemzimmier was a german. So when I write his name (which I obviously know it's Hanz Zemmir) wrong it means I am "bastardizating" (sic) the German, not the English which is the only language you can speak...

That's it, Dumb2.
Now you can picky your nose again.

Quill: There's a place for everything on this board - even for you! Plus, I am nice.

And, please, don't pick your nose !!

Best,
André

Now we’ve been able to establish how to spell Zimmer’s name, as a side issue, I’d be most interested to hear your opinion of Hans Zimmer’s movie scores?

Personally speaking, I rate Zimmer very highly amongst the filmscoring fraternity. I see him as the greatest current pioneer of movie music progression. Indeed, his Media Ventures is an organization that has led film-score progression for the past ten years, its ethos being a devotion to fulfilling the musical needs of the movie, whilst also appealing to the widest possible cinema audience. Immensely talented composers such as Trevor Rabin, Mark Mancina, John Powell and many others, are, or have been part of Clan Zimmer. Over the past decade Zimmer has successfully married the traditional approach of such composers as John Williams with the music of the often purely ‘electronic’ cutting-edge 80s composers such as Vangelis to create the perfect medium. Thus, Zimmer (and Media Ventures) output contains the best of both worlds. This has led to a steady stream of hugely successful scores that often combine both traditional and popular stylistics seamlessly. The Zimmer hallmark is diversity, appropriateness and an unflinching desire to serve the movie.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DANIEL2:
I’d be most interested to hear your opinion of Hans Zimmer’s movie scores?

---

Oh, how flattering... If I didn't know who this guy is I would be surprised.
You obviously know what I think about the noise-maker and his army of clones. So what's you up to, Norman?

Why they make so much success? Huummm... I don't know. Maybe...

- Because they are cheap?
- Because most film makers this days come from MTV and love musical trash?
- Because teenagers love flat-bombastic noise and they are the ones who spend their money with movies?
- Because they don't make movies like they use to do?
- Because they all buy dope from the same drug dealer?
- Because they are kissing the right butts?

Who knows? And who cares?

Better if you tell me, lad, since you seem to be so full of lunatic theories and endless rhetoric...

Anyway, nice to know my opinion is so important to you. Too bad I cannot say the same about you...

Bye now.

André, the not politically correct one.

"I read what Andre wrote.

He is wrong. But he has the right to say whatever he wants on this message board.

You sound like a 60 year old retiree from Kansas..."You know sonny, they just don't make movie like they used to, and these gal'darn kids these days...they all do drugs, worship satan and listen to Britney Spears and Hans Zimmer. What's the world comin' to, and why am I the only one smart enough to see it? Wow, I just noticed I was walkin' both ways, up hill, in the snow."

Throughout your answer to Daniel2, you still manage to evade giving a direct answer as to why you feel the music is poor--instead you awed us yet again with your usual jaded rantings about Zimmer's success.

No matter what anyone says to you - you'll never look at their point of view; that much is clear. I'm assuming you're older than me, I'm 17, and I'm a little curious as to why you're always so negative about Zimmer scores and whatever other junk you like to bitch about? And why you handle them the way you do? Do you have any manners whatsoever?

Do you own any Hans Zimmer soundtracks? If you think Zimmer can do nothing for a film, why do you see them? Is it so you can cum on here and piss people off?

Let me guess, you probably only like stuff by Goldsmith and Williams; conservative indeed. I enjoy music by Hans Zimmer and I enjoy music by John Williams, James Horner, Jerry Goldsmith, James Newton Howard, Carter Burwell, Basil Poledouris, Chris Young, Randy Edelman, Thomas Newman etc. etc. So, from my point of view I don't single out any composer for whatever reason; I own tons of scores by those composers and other like them.

Why post the same crap everytime someone mentions Gladiator, or Hans Zimmer or Jerry Bruckhiember or anything to do with MV?

Blá, blá, blá...
Don't you people ever get tired of this BS?

Hanzimmer sucks.
Just face it.

If you like him and his clones, that's your problem! Not mine.
Some people think Steven Seagal's movies are the best.
Others believe Jim Carrey is a fine actor.
While a lot of people say New Kids on the Block rules.

Do you agree with them? No? Well, them try to convince them all... But considering the kind of music you people love I don't know...

I don't own any score by Zimmer or his pets. And I don't need to since I've listened to their crap with the movie.

I have better things to invest my money in. Like a good aspirin to cure me from the horrible headache the noise this hacks "compose" provoked on me while I tried to watch the movie they ruined.

Sorry if you don't agree with me.
But like Lancie, the one who cloned one of my messages (I wonder why Jim Horner is his favorite composer... ), stated above, it's your right as human beings to disagree.

Now feel free to post your comments about my comments bellow.
And please, don't pick your nose!

Best,
André, the controversial (but not deaf) one

Daniel 2,
I think the word you were looking for in that sentance was scrutinized.

If your going to use foul language on this board, at least learn how to use it correctly

Andre,
Are we having fun with everybody's minds again? Although alittle sick of it, us vetrans are aware of how you like to play with people. You never let anything down, which is respectable, and well...I think I'll shut up now.

Judging by the winking smilie, I have to assume that you are being facetious.

However, on the off chance that you seriously believe that I have misused the word bastardization, please allow me to enlighten you.

When I said, ‘The English language is as commonly bastardized here in Britain as it is anywhere else in the world…..’, the intention was to emphasize that the English language is distorted, misused and abused as much in the ‘mother country’ as it is in America. The word scrutinized has a completely different meaning and would be wholly inappropriate as a substitute for bastardize.

The word bastard has a multiplicity of uses, the most well known being as a term to describe a child born out of wedlock, or a person of mixed race (illegitimate or otherwise). However, the essential meaning of the word bastard is its use to describe something that is not genuine or is illegitimate or is false or is fake. Hence the use of the word bastard to describe an illegitimate child, and also the word bastardize to describe the act of corruption or undermining. One may bastardize Shakespeare by recounting his great works minus the naughty bits, but there’s another word for that….bowdlerization, derived from the 19th century Scotsman Thomas Bowdler, who actively purged Shakespeare for family consumption!

Indeed, there are many words that are commonly used as insulting or derogatory terms and yet are intrinsically innocuous. The word gay is often used in an insulting manner towards homosexuals, though now that society is thankfully accepting homosexuality as a normal and positive force, the word gay in this context has taken on a far more benign meaning. Gay is a beautiful word and so fittingly describes a state of merriment. Any other ‘controversial’ meanings of the word will not prevent me from using the word gay where appropriate.

Therefore, my use of the term bastardize stands.

PS Your description of the meaning of bastard is incorrect anyway. You said, ‘Term for a child who was born without a father.’ Of course, whether one is a bastard child or not, one still must have a father – that’s biology.

I liked Gladiator, and I am by no means a Zimmer fanatic. Wouldn't even call myself a fan. There is much wrong with Zimmer and his music factory (at least in my eyes), yet there is much right about it as well.

Having viewed Gladiator for the third time now (which is no refferenum about its quality or non-quality), I must admit that the music may not seemlessly support the movie, but the score is nonetheless magnificent.

It is amazing however how many people really do notice the score in the contents of the movie. While watching the movie on DVD, my 16 year old nephew (who is more anti-score than anything else. Well, then again he just loathes Backstreet Boys and N'Sync which doesn't get him any good points in my nieces eyes who hasn't got a clue what a score is...), he again offered the comment "Man the music is tight".

Has Gladiator had a positive impact on the usually non-score audience out there? I don't know. Is the score a good score? I think so, I think it is one of the years best, I mean I still play it regularly. Does it deserve a Oscar nomination? I think so. Are you an idiot if you like the score? Don't know if I am an idiot, but I would say no. Are you an idiot if you don't like the score? No. Are you an idiot if you pick your nose? Only if you pick it so hard that you start to bleed...

Scott

BTW: Norman it is great to see you again here. Did you get my e-mail?

NP: Beethoven....

Whatever one’s opinion of the composer, the fact that Hans Zimmer is one of the most successful film composers in the history of cinema is incontestable.

Besides, my main question to you did not relate to his obvious success, but was, ‘What’s your opinion of Zimmer’s film music?’

In my opinion, Zimmer (and his army of accomplished and skilled film scoring talents at Media Venures), is the most exciting musical force working in modern cinema. The range of his music is as consistently startling as the quality of his film scores.

All you have said so far is, ‘Zimmer sucks’ – which is fine, if that is what you believe. But what does ‘Zimmer sucks’ mean?

Does it mean that you dislike Zimmer’s witty and dextrous orchestral score to AS GOOD AS IT GETS, or his emotional and ethereal work on THE THIN RED LINE? Does it mean that you do not rate the classically-trained John Powell’s all-encompassing work on FACE/OFF, or his witty and versatile co-scoring of ANTZ?

Do you dislike all of Zimmer’s work? Please can you give specific examples of which Zimmer (and Media Ventures) scores fail as successful film music, in your opinion?

However, since you have generously raised the issue of Zimmer’s unparalleled success within contemporary cinema, please allow me to address some of the issues you have brought to the fore.

Firstly, I do not see any reason why Zimmer and Media Ventures should be cheaper to hire than other composers, and more importantly, I have not seen any evidence of this – perhaps you could provide such evidence, Andre?

There is no evidence to suggest that most filmmakers come from MTV ‘these days’, and even if they did, I do not see why such filmmakers would necessarily like ‘musical trash’.

Your opinion that teenagers love flat-bombastic noise is purely subjective. Teenagers may love what you perceive to be flat-bombastic noise, however.

I actually agree that they don’t make movies like they used to. In my opinion, today’s movies are consistently more fulfilling and entertaining than during any other period in cinema’s history since the late 40s.

I fail to see why from whom Zimmer and his fellow Media Ventures’ composers purchase their Pot, Grass, Ganja, Wacky Weed, Rock, Crack, Coke, Nose candy, Snow, Dust, Big Daddy, Brown Sugar, Tar, Smack, Roofies, Roids or Aunt Mary has any bearing on their success in the film industry – please explain, Andre.

Finally, you said, ‘Because they are kissing the right butts?’ – well yes, the best way for a film composer to brown-nose is to provide his employer with a great film score, which is exactly what Zimmer does, most of the time. That’s why Zimmer keeps being hired by some of the best filmmakers in the business.