The panic and furor induced in fans by early reviews is absolutely nothing to worry about.

I picked up my copy of the Ultimate Edition, not without a little trepidation, but still eagerly. Honestly, I can't hear a single thing wrong with it--it's great. I can hear the differences, but it's really not a big deal. The music is, in fact, exactly as heard in the movie. Well, if you didn't like the movie, and hate the music anyway, I've got no defense against that--enjoy yourself.
Otherwise, this is a great release, and there's nothing to fuss about. This is what you wanted all along, and this is what they gave you. Perhaps they should have given it to us back in '99, but it's here now, and better late than later.

The sound is perfect, everything's in chronological order, all the missing cues are there and the overall package is very impressive. I couldn't be happier at the moment. Sure, I would love to hear John Williams original music before Mr. Lucas tampered with it. Who knows what we would of been treated with if the film was edited correctly to begin with?

So with that said, I hope I didn't anger anyone with my opinion. I totally see where you're coming from but for the time being, this release does a nice job of offering me all the music that was originally left off the first ablum.

NP- The Grinch promo

Lancelot, if you're pleased with this release -- if anyone is pleased with this release -- that's great. I've got nothing against those who enjoy this presentation of the score. But I think the majority of people did NOT want the music engraved on disc the way it was heard in the movie. Many have voiced their opinion on that very point. What a lot of people wanted, including myself, was a release that remained as faithful as humanly possible to Williams's composition. This release has not accomplished that. Instead, what it sounds like is a compromised release; there's more of Williams' score available and in chronological order, but you have to live with editorial decisions which destroy musical continuity.

I will admit that I have not heard this release, and chances are, unless I can find a used copy for what I deem a reasonable price to pay for a product I'm already seriously suspect about, I will not be hearing it anytime soon. But this is why I have resisted from signing the petition (from theforce.net -- is that the site?), though I support the reasons behind its creation and its purpose. I just naturally want to hear a piece of music, or in this case, a presentation of music, before I pass judgement. But I'm also not going to dismiss the opinions of those who already have, whether they've heard it or not.

Basically, here's why. The first post I read concerning this release was by Andrew Drannon, who had listened to it. I don't know Andrew personally, but his comments certainly gave me pause because I could theoretically relate to his reaction. I could place myself in his position and because, overall, I'm familiar with the score as heard in the film, I knew most likely that I was not going to like the score this way as a stand alone listening experience.

Maybe that won't be the case once I've heard it -- I'd like to think I'm open-minded enough once and if that time comes. But until then, I'm still disappointed that there seems to have been such a LITERAL interpretation (AS HEARD IN THE FILM) of what a good portion of people asked for.

But I'll say this, although I would have preferred a more faithful presentation of the score, the fact that there is more music commercially available is a good thing. And again, I hope those that preferred this release as it is enjoy it. I really mean that.

But, this 2-disc set is great. The commentary by Mr. Drannen which was linked from a JW Website is misinformed. The first half of his commentary appears written before he had actually heard this release responding more to the track listing.

As to the "rough edits" everyone is complaining about, I noticed this most in the finale...but it works in the film as it stands for what it's worth.

Now, if people out there think that there was music missing, I am sure there is because that would be normal practice to have more than what is needed...stuff that did not make it into the final print. I remember these arguments with the first Star Wars score. The reincarnation on RCA reveals that most of this score had been released between the original and the Fox boxed set. The sound though is much better.

The Sony people did a great job by subdividing the cues individually by blocks..because they easily could have smashed everything together in one 5-7 minute band. They used what existed.

The only complaint is that there was ample room to include the "concert" versions of the music...but that would have made the single disc obsolete. Again though, with this "unreleased" music, some of it often was thrown out due to things like intonation and ensemble problems.

when the movie comes out on DVD, I wouldn't be surprised if it has a isolated score track, and with the way DVDs are selling these days, this release is pointless.

I don't even like listening much to it in the film, it jumps all over the place.

but I also never really had many problems with the original release last year. even though some of the tracks were edited a tad differently than what was advisable. It's still a good listen overall.

Hearing what Lancelot and others said, I am satisfied... The only fuss the people are making now are the cues that went unused in the movie.

Another thought also occured to me. If there were no "Ultimate Edition" being released, and TPM was announced for DVD release with an iso score, do you know how many of you (myself included) would be thrilled to death. Why are we not with this cd. It's the same thing. Only we don't have to rip it ourselves.

I hate to say this, but furor over this release, good or bad is beside the point. Sony doesn’t care one way or another about this release or any other. There may be individual people at Sony who care about it, but the corporation is only interested in the bottom line. Will it make money?

Of Course, it will make money.

I offer into evidence all the countless re-recordings and re-releases of Star Wars themes, Box Sets, special editions, compilations. They make money so they keep coming out.

Film Music fans, Star Wars fans, John Williams fans, it just doesn’t matter what you think you want, Sony will give you what it thinks will sell best and be the most likely to increase revenue. If it is artistically pleasing so much the better, but you had better believe that is a secondary or even tertiary concern. The only way that Sony will get any lesson from this is if it sells incredibly well or incredibly poorly. My quess is that it will come in exactly where their market analysis forecast said it would in relation to amount of ad dollars spent promoting the release.

Film Music fans are quite fortunate that companies like Marco Polo, Ryko, FSM and Intrada actually tailor releases specifically to please us. I think it fools us into thinking that everyone cares. Not so. The bottom line is all-important, because they answer to stockholders, not fans.

This double CD is great. The last tracks indeed contain some rough edits, but that's all.

Cheers!

I fell in love with movie music by watching movies...and hearing the music in the movies...and that's the music I most want to hear -- not a re-recording or selected cues -- ALL THE MUSIC IN THE MOVIE.

I can't tell you how many movies have been made that I'd love to have the music from "just the way it was used in the movies."

Instead, we have nothing from them.

And all this talk about "continuity" being messed up because of editorial decisions -- well GUESS WHAT! That's the way the movie was cut. So what if JW composed a cue for one scene only to have it laid upon another??? They shoot movies out of sequence, too....and sometimes scenes are moved around in the final edit from the way they appeared in the screenplay.

That's show business.

This is a terrific 2-CD set.

Ron

True. But that's how the music is used in the film. When its presented on CD, I at least would like to think that the composer's initial vision is respected and represented as faithfully as possible, not an editor's idea of how the music should work in the film. I'd say there are innumerable examples where editorial decisions regarding the music's placement are extremely beneficial to the film, or where a cue composed for a different section is placed in another scene it was intended for. A lot of times those decisions are inspired and work wonderfully, and sometimes the end result isn't as successful as was hoped for -- but again, those are hopefully made with the film in mind, not the music. And that's how it should be. But as a soundtrack release, where the music can now, to some degree, be appreciated as MUSIC?

As an example, consider Williams' score for THE LOST WORLD. There's still a good amount of music in the film which was not included on the soundtrack release. I'm assuming that the majority of music Williams wrote was actually used in the intended scenes. But there are scenes which feature tracked in music from other places, such as the dinosaur hunt, the trek at night during the rain, and where Ludlow gets double-teamed. From what I can tell, and if my assumptions are right, Williams' music for those scenes are all included on the soundtrack release. But except for "Ludlow's Demise," where I could only detect occasional portions of it being used, I didn't notice any of the other music in the film, and certainly I couldn't hear them where at least I think they were suppose to be.

I mention THE LOST WORLD because if this score ever received an expanded release, I would be very disappointed if it simply followed how the score was edited within the film. Again, unless I wanted to relive every moment of the film through how the music was used (or as Ron said, you simply fell in love with every nuance of the music as heard in a film, so you want that version; but in that case, I would also suggest that some may still be wanting to relive the film – and there’s nothing wrong with that, because if you've seen the film from which the score was written for, images are bound to appear sometime; at least that's how it it with me), I sure wouldn't want a release the way it’s presented in the film. I would appreciate having Williams' score as faithfully presented as possible, whether it’s complete or not (because I’m generally not someone that needs every single note written).

The presentation of THE LOST WORKD soundtrack is nothing new from Williams if you're familiar with many of his albums -- disparate cues segue in-and-out of each other occasionally, and edits occur on some cues, I would guess, for condensation of playing time (think "Rescuing Sarah").

Why I have less of a problem with this presentation then I do with the new PHANTOM MENACE release is because Williams (and whoever else assists in assembling his soundtracks) basically fashioned this score almost as an an extended suite for what he feels is a better stand alone listening experience. I don't agree with all of the editorial decisions made by Williams et al on his soundtracks -- the method works sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't -- but I can live with them. But this is why I really have to wonder why Williams would OK this new release of THE PHANTOM MENACE. If he really did produce this album, it is an unusual and inconsistent approach when you consider past expanded releases that he has been involved with (E.T., CLOSE ENCOUNTERS, and JAWS, the last two which include music he wrote but that ultimately went unused in the film).

I just bought Marco Polo's release of OBJECTIVE, BURMA! and noticed that some of the cues featured music that Waxman wrote but that were not included in the film. I'm sure glad that John Morgan and William Stromberg made the decision to include those few selections, which, as Morgan points out in the liner notes, possibly gives the music a smoother flow and allows for a more rewarding listening experience.

Morgan also mentions that in all of the recordings he and William Stromberg have done of classic film music for Marco Polo, loyalty to the composer and their music is what they have striven for, not ultimately the way the music is heard in the film. It really sounds like a combined approach, where the film is used as a reference, but is not the final say as to how the music should be presented on its own. I’m sure this varies from recording to recording, whether it be a new recording or a release of the original recording, but for the most part, this approach seems to be taken by most companies which release expanded or never-before-available film scores. But not this time as far as THE PHANTOM MENACE goes.

For another example, consider Intrada's release of RAMBO III. That film is tracked with selections from FIRST BLOOD and RAMBO II, right? There was a considerable amount of music Goldsmith wrote for RAMBO III that wasn't in the film, right? Does anyone wish Intrada had jettisoned their idea of releasing Goldsmith’s score as he wrote it in favor of the music AS HEARD IN THE FILM? If that had happened, the results would have been disastrous as a soundtrack release. How about ALIEN ... ? Maybe as an interesting novelty, but as a listening experience?

(I don't have a DVD player, but wasn't Goldsmith's score isolated on the ALIEN DVD, edits and tracked in cues included?)

I'm a realist and I know that profits must be made in the long run for the possibility of expanded releases, etc. to continue. I understand that us soundtrack fans should be fortunate for what we get in the first place -- which is why I'm not completely condemning the new PHANTOM MENACE release. From what many have mentioned these last few days, it has its share of important benefits which should be appreciated. But is this really the ultimate release everyone wanted? Is there not a feeling deep inside of even remote disappointment with what has been released? Regardless of who this release was specifically marketed towards, is it not a temporary compromise for almost everyone involved? In the end, maybe this paves the way towards a future release of the score as Williams wrote it, but who’s to say that wouldn’t have come eventually anyway? Remember, this is STAR WARS, and that title alone has enough clout to warrant countless releases (as MWRuger mentioned; also, I’m really just raising a few points here that MWRuger stated much better than I have).

I agree with many that complaining about it really isn’t going to change anything (again MWRuger says it well). But in the meantime, although I do think that other releases of THE PHANTOM MENACE are bound to materialize eventually, this release is probably it for now. The fact that new music is available is great, so for that, some praise is certainly deserved ...

I could not be more happy with these discs...

Dan (UK)

NP: TPM Ultimate disc 1 (****/****)

I am aware of your complaints and all the power to you, but you must think of the logic here:

There has been two releases of TPM. A 72 minute release and a 124 minute 2-CD release. Do you honestly think Sony will release another version of TPM with Williams previous edit of the film? I have always refered back to the old saying: It is quality, not quantity.

Perhaps, I am not just recieving the information correctly. Are you mad because of the structure of the 2-CD release (edits?) or are you mad because Sony said you would have "every note of the original music that John Williams composed"? And instead you got what appeared on the final film?

And if I am correct, all that is missing is 15 somewhat minutes of un-used score. Now it says on the back that Williams produced the album, therefore, he must have thought the release was sufficient. Would people have rather had no 2-CD release?

Anyways, enough with my opinion As I said, Ricard and all who are displeased, all the power to you and if by some fortune you get Sony's attention and maybe even another release I will never doubt you ever again!

Good luck!

P.S- Expect a long review of TPM: Ultimate Edition at www.ScoreCentral.cjb.net

-Racerprose

Sony did give us a expanded edition. A score that is released again with more music from the previous release is defined as a "expanded release" no matter what version it is. Anyways, I have to slightly agree with your comment at the end about record companies. I do believe they care about fans, but it all depends on the company.

-Racerprose

the RCA SE albums also say that Williams was producer, but Michael Matessino, who did them, has said in an interview that Williams' input was minimal, if non-existent, at best.

something like the SE's should have been rleased in the first place. THAT's my problem with this Ultimate Edition farce.

shoulda been done right in the first place.

I understand what you are saying, but if Williams truly felt the 2-CD set did not portray his vision of the score for TPM correctly, than surely he would have came in and said something or done something. He has at least that much imput. Anyways, I feel that people are taking it too serious and should be happy with what they got and what they asked for.

Don't get me wrong, I so totally understand why people are complaining! We'd all love the music as originaly recorded and we'd love to hear the alternate cues and so on, BUT, I do not believe this is the intetnion of this CD release.

I say its wise to own both, since it is obvious the previous album release represents certain cues of music more accurately as they were recorded.

Ok YES, Sony made a mistake by saying we'd get "every note", though anyone who saw the track listings that first time Star Wars.com put them up would have realised it was going to be edited as heard in the movie.

I feel it was Sony's INTENTION to let us experience the story carried only by the music as it is in the MOVIE, and I see nothing wrong with this.

ONE DAY we will hear that unreleased stuff, it may be after episode 3 has come and gone, but still, one day we WILL hear it, just not now, and just not here.

It is always possible Sony were not contractualy allowed to release the alternate cues at this time. Lucasfilm as a hold of every damn thing Star Wars, who knows what they like to be released and when (DVDs anyone?)...

My main point is, we have been graciously given what we ASKED for a year and a half ago, and since that is the case, I see no point in complaining.

I'm very happy with the score and I think it's worth every penny.

We basically get every single note from the finished film (I timed it) so as far as complete scores go - no problem.

Sure - there's the missing music originally composed for the final battle, but I agree with those who say that that's no the purpose of this release. I'm sure we'll get to hear the piece someday.

About the rough cuts in the final battle - apart from the transition from Track 22 to 23, which is absolutely abyssmal, I found no big problems. The music does sometimes hop around from theme to theme, but the music fit's the action perfectly, and the edits are less noticeable in the film.

Also -

The way the music is arranged into suites is good. The special editions had longer tracks, which meant you could put your CD player on random, but that's a minor gripe. I'll just listen in normal order.

The packaging is great. From the cool cover to the booklet, it's very catchy and original. Not very useful, but fun to have.

And at the end of the day, what's important is that we have >2hrs of one of the best scores of the 90s (IMO). The thematic layering and complexity is marvellous. Thanks to this release we can fully realise what a massive undertaking this was for Williams and how he came through with flying colours.

btw, I'm ashamed to say that only now did I catch the great use of the Imperial March when Yoda tell Obi-Wan that he sees trouble in Anakin's future (Disc 2, 29). The touch of a genius.

Can you guys see it?

(then again, I wonder if you can see this post)

I even prefer the linear notes, carrying us through the movie with 60 or so pictures, something that I'd have in every soundtrack in Utopia.

As for the "rough edits," I love them. They tantalize you. Just As In The Movie. One scene to the next, holding on to the suspense.

60 seconds of fighting
FLASH
60 seconds of war
FLASH
60 seconds of fighting

It works. You get caught up in each, and then are thrusted in the other direction. It's great to be toyed with like that. Just Like In The Movie.

And, as for John Williams' input--
I love the guy. And while I've never met him, I really doubt he cares about whether the people on this message post disagree with his decisions. I also doubt he has a gigantic opinion on any albums, because what he loves to do is transform a picture into music. Not release symphonies.

A+