Absolute PERFECTION:

Hitchcock's Psycho is perfect. Herrmann's score completes the perfection. From the black & white cinematography to the final dissolve with "Mrs. Bates'" skeletal countenance superimposed over Norman's evil smile, this film and its music demonstrate that cinematic perfection CAN be attained! I feel the same way about Citizen Kane and The Sixth Sense.

ALMOST Perfect:

Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey.
For a long time, this film was on my Perfect list...and then I heard Alex North's rejected musical score.
Sorry, Stanley. BIG mistake. 2001 was desperately in NEED of North's score! The perfect version of this movie would include it.

I Love It...But It NEEDS Work!

OR: A Flawed Film With A PERFECT SCORE!
Star Trek: TMP! Cut away around twenty minutes of crap, get rid of that terribly obvious matte painting of the Star Fleet hangar, and there IS a good movie inside there! However, the one PERFECT thing about this movie IS it's music!

Can somebody say AMEN?

Also would be (both film & score):
American Beauty - Funny, moving, Brilliant!
Everytime I see this film it gets better.
I could listen to the score anytime, anywhere.

Eyes Wide Shut - Almost everyone I know dislikes this film. I can't see why myself. It was very intriguing and I wish I could see the original uncut version. The use of music was genious.

Ronin - Say what you will about this film, but I loved all aspects of it.

Danny Elfman/Tim Burton Collaborations - Visually and aurally perfect.

North by Northwest - Hitchcock...'nuff said

"Also Sprach Zarathrusta" was based on Nietzscie's (I could never spell the guy's name right) writing about how man can trenscend his nature to become the "Super-man". When placed into the film, not only does the music add to the importance of the scene, but when taken with the backstory of the music, you get what Kubrick was aiming at: the monolith was changing a mere monkey into something amazing and beyond his simple nature.

"The Blue Danube" was composed as a waltz. In the film, it makes one regard bodies in space as moving as gracefully as a dancer.

The Gygory Ligeti and the experimental pieces are, what I think, very vital to the movie. "Requiem for a Soprano..." gives the movie the sense of the unknown, both facing it and going through it. The fear of what could happen is perfectly captured by the chorus. "Gayane Ballet Suite" (by Aram Khachaturian) captures the droll and lonely aspect of space travel. I honestly can't imagine the "Lights Sequence" and the following hotel room scene without the Ligeti's composition: the discordant strings and flutes do match the bizarre imagery on the screen and accentuate the intrigue and surreal, alien quality of it. Again the chorus plays an important part in the feel of the whole scene. In the hotel room, the sudden outbursts of strange voices suggests (poised by Robert C. Cumbow) of the very beings watching over Bowman, whether actively changing him or experimenting with Bowman clones.

At the end, "Zarathrusta" plays again, representing another huge advancement of humanity, Bowman as the star-child (the "Super-man" most likely)

Kubrick using the classical music instead of North's score wasn't intended as to bash North, I don't think. Rather, since he was trying to move away from traditonal sci-fi devices, use classical music in the movie.

1) Look at ChrisK's number one pick.

2) Rent North by Northwest and watch the entire film without the score. This film is all about the score.

More tips will be added later, if they are required.

PeterK

I believe the latter. Herrmann's music transformed so many films, elevating themso far beyond what they might have been: Journey To The Center Of The Earth, Mysterious Island, Three Worlds Of Gulliver, Obsession; these are all movies that are well-made but nothing truly special...Herrmann's music elevates all of them into a much higher plane than they ever would have occupied!

Does that make sense to you?

Do you understand what I'M saying?

PeterK

I have to disagree about 2001. Stanely Kubrick was a director who was very much into control of his films and hated, as he put it, "...turning control of the film over to a composer who can put make any kind of emotional statement he chooses."

I think he chose classical music whenever he could because it gave HIM more control over the picture. I suspect that his experiences on Spartacus exacerbated an already extant problem. He was very unhappy with the amount of control that Kirk Douglas had on that film.

PeterK & Chris:

You are spot on about Bernard Herrmann. His music could often make a lesser picture into something better. But even his music couldn’t make It’s Alive 2 a good film! There has to be something there besides the music. Hmm… Jerry Goldsmith comes to mind.

I think I would put it this way:

You can have a great score without a great film but you can’t have a great film without a great score.

PS. Yes, I know The Birds had no music, but it had the perfect score. Silence fit the film so well that I didn’t even notice it was missing until someone on this board pointed it out.

These come to mind at the moment:
Herrmann's score to Psycho
Steiner's score to King Kong
Williams scores for Star Wars and Jaws
Goldsmith's score for Patton

De Palma's The Fury: The story may be a bit too over-the-top, but the visuals are stunnning, and along with Williams' really perfect score, I still regard the film as one of the most impressive movie experiences.

Oh, Branagh/Doyle's Much Ado About Nothing, too. And Carlito's Way (De Palma/Doyle) comes very close, too. At least the Central Station sequence is perfect.

Would ANYONE have paid attention to The Final Conflict if it had not been brilliantly scored by Jerry Goldsmith?

I believe that TRULY INSPIRED music makes a connection with the masses that cannot be measured.

It's just that very few musical scores are truly inspired.

Herrmann, as I expect many of you probably know, still had input as a consultant of sorts with the sounds of the birds and their use in the film. This lack of musical score plays to a great effect, I think. The silent moments suddenly quake with the distant sounds of oncoming birds, and as the suspense of a scene reaches its peak while the birds arrive, their sounds are so piercing that it has the effect of a full bombastic orchestra. Even when we see the characters yell at each other in panic, all the viewer hears is the shrieking of the birds. Many composers would love to be given an opportunity to write a large orchestral cue as the sole audio centerpiece for such a scene, and that makes the idea that the only instrument utilized for the "score" for The Birds is the sound of birds all the more genius.

(I also like the movie, a DVD would be really nice)

Interesting comments. While I agree with you that a few scenes could have been more aggresiely edited, I think The Birds is one of the very few films around whose atmospheric and immersive qualities really benefit from not having an orchestral score playing in the background. Even the tense moments I think are made somehow more jarring by the lack of any of the kind of musical cues you've described. This is only my opinion, though.

[Message edited by Probable on 10-22-2000]

Anywhoo,

Jaws would have been nothing but a rubber fish were it not for the incredible imagination of Mr. Williams.

Yes, the Birds and Phsycho...a shame Herrmann is not around anymore.

The Omen and Poltergeist...without the perfect, powerdriving and yet at places unbelievably sensitive score by Mr. Goldsmith these would have been just films.

Done without CGI, ET would have been long "eternily terminated" were it not for the score I am not ashamed to claim as my absolute fave. John Williams made me laugh, cheer, jeer, and cry.

Vertigo...need I say more?

North by Northwest...what a main title. What a film. What a score.

Close Encounters of the Third Kind...composed in the same year as Star Wars (of which I shall remain quite...I mean after all, what can you say about a legend). Atonal, romantic, classical...wow.

Home Alone...the way Christmas music, humor and suspense are married in this one is just incredible.

Schindler's List. Now, here is an absolute masterpiece. Can't get any more Jewish I suppose. A score so emotional without getting corny. Ahhh...

Planet of the Apes...Goldsmith going experimental on us. Good choice. Awesome score that changed the whole feel of the movie (IMHO).

Patton...genius. As little as score there was...it sure was powerful.

The Magnificent Seven...you hear the theme and you know the movie even if you've never seen it. Fits like a glove, plays like a masterpiece.

I'm out...

Scott

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Originally posted by Scott:
I haven't been around too much lately, very busy with work and a little Access problem that is turning out to be quite a challenge (but Camillu, I am working on it). I think this 24 hour a day limit was meant as a joke by big Daddy.

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Hey there, Scott.

Don't worry too much about my problem! I didn't think it was taking up too much of your time, otherwise I would have told you to forget about it ages ago.

There are only 24 hrs in a day so don't spend too much of them on my silly database which after all I could write down on paper.

Thanks though, you really are the greatest.

nothing when it comes to the members of this board is silly. I love helping you out and besides, it advances my knowledge as well.

As Marian suggested, Thank you Microsoft.

Hehehe

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To quote what a great man once said:
Thanks though, you really are the greatest.

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