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      Film Music For People Who Don't Like Films

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    Topic:   Film Music For People Who Don't Like Films

     Graham Watt
     Click Here to Email Graham Watt
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    Some dear friends of mine sometimes send me tapes of wonderful stuff, be it world music, indie bands, jazz, or unclassifiable contemporary symphonic things. But when I reciprocate, there's a problem.

    The film music I've tried them with has been deemed (implicitly only) politically incorrect!

    Any hint of patriotism is frowned upon. Walton's Spitfire Prelude And Fugue, or Goldsmith's Air Force One may be accepted, but only with a huge pinch of salt. Heart on sleeve emotional scores only reinforce conservative values. Rio Conchos is sort of OK but it "sounds like a western." Ben Hur?, well, it's a bit of a laugh. Religion!

    The recipients of my compilations are true friends, sensitive, intelligent people (with a cynical edge), and... I don't know what to do.

    I'm certainly not going to abandon them, but, I ask, are they simply wrong, or do they have a point?

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    posted 10-20-2000 01:55 PM PT (US)     

     Aaron R. Brown
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    I have given up on trying to get people to like film music. I think you must greatly love the movies to even slightly enjoy the score. If a person has some insight into classical music then they might be receptive to film music. Then some people who are classical music fans don't think film music is real music. So what do you know?

    [Message edited by Aaron R. Brown on 10-20-2000]

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    posted 10-20-2000 02:21 PM PT (US)     

     Gae
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    Interesting argument Graham and everything you are saying relates to my own experiences whilst a student (having shared my digs with several anarchist friends)who disliked anything representative of patriotism/conservatism etc...my gut answer would be I suppose it all depends on how "political" a person you and how left wing...anti-establishment you are also. I mean, I have a tendency to lean more to the left(politically that is! ) but have probably become more centred over the years out of my situation of home-owner, full-time worker etc. I think most people tend to pick and choose what they do or dont enjoy/agree with in our capitalist/political system, whereas other people are just opposed to "everything"( including film-music) because they are totally anti-establishment and feel that they have risen above the corruptions of our world. Well, obviously one way or another we are all affected by or participation in the establishment in one way or another so we should discover for ourselves what we agree with/like and rebel against what we dont like, but to totally rebel against "everything" purely cos we dont live in a perfect world is a trifle naive and idealistic in my opinion. There are lots of things in society that I dislike but as regards film music, anything that stimulates the imagination and stirs the soul gets the thumbs up in my book. Personally any person who thinks that they can exist without any contact with the real world is either kidding themselves or living in a cave. Also, I live in the "real" world which often sucks, but I also live in my "dream" world (music & art) which is my own personal conscience/existence and I am selective in what I allow in it! Great topic Graham anyway! My point is, if people dislike music because it is representative of the mainstream or belongs in a commercial movie they are missing out, possibly, on some great art. Movies are an art form ( some obviously more so than others)...I mean look how much Classical music was written for the popular medium of the day such as music halls/operas etc before Cinema existed. They were for the masses so do they not qualify as Art? Is a piece of music inspired by a poem or novel more important than music written for a great film? They are all works of art in my opinion! I rest my case NP City Slickers II

    [Message edited by Gae on 10-20-2000]

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    posted 10-20-2000 02:36 PM PT (US)     

     John Dunham
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    IMO, emotionless music is pointless.

    NP: Small Soldiers Suite

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    posted 10-20-2000 06:02 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    Aaron, I love many film scores for movies which I don't like.

    NP: Beethoven: Symphony #9 (Vienna Philharmonic, Leonard Bernstein)

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    posted 10-20-2000 06:39 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    Graham,


    with friends like these, who taunt you with pop music, you must reciprocate with pop oriented scores. Never give up!

    I'm talking about something like Pi, from Clint Mansell. The actual original score is only about 10 minutes, with a bunch of electronica groups like Orbital contributing songs to the soundtrack. The score by Mansell is pretty pulse pounding stuff, and they just may like it.

    JNH's Grand Canyon also comes to mind for some reason.

    or you might try something pretty recognizable, like Dances With Wolves.


    BTW -- why are they picking on your music as politically incorrect? Ben-Hur is religious?

    what do they say about Handel's Messiah for God's sake!!?


    NP -- Mysteries of Egypt, an IMAX film score by Sam Cardon; pretty decent

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    posted 10-20-2000 07:45 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Gae makes some crucial points about people who sacrifice their pleasures for their politics. There are a lot of distasteful or downright ugly aspects to our culture and maybe for some, films and film music qualify.

    I don't think it's impossible to find film music these guys might like, but I don't believe in pushing water where it won't naturally flow.

    My guess is that the more modern or stranger sounding it is, the more they might get into it, so no Steiner or Korngold but The Day the Earth Stood Still and Beneath the Planet of the Apes. Nothing with a tune, nothing uplifting or noble, just noise, the moodier, the noiseier, the weirder the better.

    And if that's not the stuff you like or want to send off to represent film music, then send them gift certificates so they can buy more of the same crap they like to listen to and be done with it.

    [Message edited by Lou Goldberg on 10-20-2000]

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    posted 10-20-2000 08:41 PM PT (US)     

     Observer
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    Following JJH's lead, Fight Club by The Dust Brothers has something that could be called crossover appeal, since it's techno and by a group that produced a Beck album.

    On another note, have you ever had them listen to the jazz tracks of Goldenthal's Titus and see if their response is the same as other film scores?

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    posted 10-20-2000 08:53 PM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    Thank you all, I appreciate your thoughts. My anarchist friends quite liked Planet Of The Apes until I told them it was Planet Of The Apes...

    I think where they're coming from is that they don't equate entertainment with Art. They can have novels by Dostoievsky on there shelves but no John Grisham. I believe that Grisham for them is the literary equivalent of all film music.

    But pop music is OK when it's indie, because it's not corporate culture.

    Oh well, I still enjoy getting drunk with these guys. Our debates are quite lively. And they're not THAT brilliant: they can't spell Dostoyeffsky either.

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    posted 10-21-2000 03:09 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Your friends liked Planet of the Apes UNTIL they learned it WAS Planet of the Apes. Hmmmm. I think that says it all.

    A work's title or origin shouldn't change how you respond to it if you like it. I mean I can see eating chocolate covered ants and balking after learning what they were, but if they were good, I'd soon again have them on the menu.

    Your drinking buddies are obviously prejudiced against anything called film music (or most kinds of pop culture it seems) no matter what it is and how much they might enjoy it if they gave it the chance.

    I have political opinions [I'm for a single world government run by a dictator with absolute power who just so happens to be me, Lou Goldberg. When I think about it, every other political solution just falls short. Lou-ism is the only ism I can enthusiastically and whole-heartedly get behind.], but life is too brief to let politics get in the way of having a good time. Your friends are taking everything WAY too seriously. And if they were in power, we'd all be digging ditches for the common good rather than enjoying ourselves. The next time you're all drunk, sit them down in front of Keaton or the Marx Brothers (if you can) and give these guys a good laugh--they could use it.

    Now getting away from these specific guys to the topic in general, when dealing with normal joes who don't like films or are unfamiliar with film music, I suggest the Gerhardt series and the Herrmann Phase 4 albums--they helped me get into film music as music and have converted many others. They're still the quintessential work horses IMHO.

    NP: Princess Mononoke (Joe Hisaishi)

    [Message edited by Lou Goldberg on 10-21-2000]

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    posted 10-21-2000 10:11 PM PT (US)     

     Gae
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    Does all Art have to be serious and not also be able to entertain? It's a sad state of affairs if thats the case...only promoting academic cliquiness/snobbishness/elitism ( which I personally despise). I think great art should also be entertaining in the sense that it excites/stimulates/interests us...that surely qualifies as entertaining doesn't it? I agree with a lot of points Lou makes about maybe your friends need to loosen up a bit and not be so elitist! Anyway, no-one would argue that Beethoven's sonatas aren't great works of art etc, and as an illustration I would say that I am currently learning the 3rd movement of Beethoven's sonata Fantasia in Cminor ( aka Moonlight Sonata) which I find totally entertaining to listen to as well as play!! So my argument is that great art is entertaining as well as dramatic/serious! I'm not critizicing your observations Graham, only your friends. Gae

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    posted 10-22-2000 12:21 PM PT (US)     

     Nicolai P. Zwar
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    There are actually those who enjoy film scores for what they are (or at least can be): terrific music, composed for the particular purpose to enhance a motion picture, but perfectly acceptable as music on its own apart from the movie. There may not be a lot of these people, but what the heck, I know some and have even made a few "converts". Let the snobs be snobs, and let those who have ears hear. I had been listening to what is generally refered to as "classical" music already for some time before I even knew that one could actually buy music written for a movie. I grew up with classical music, and my father was not only a big Wagner and Brahms but also a big Tiomkin fan. Perhaps I lucked out. While the majority of my CD collection is probably made up of classical recordings, a great deal of it is film music.

    After all, Mozart and Hayden wrote music to accompany court festivities, Stravinsky and Handel composed music to accompany boat rides and fireworks. Why should music written to accompany a movie have to be of a lesser quality than that written to enhance a dinner?


    NP: Patrick Doyle: Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
    (Epic)

    [Message edited by Nicolai P. Zwar on 10-22-2000]

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    posted 10-22-2000 12:23 PM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    Great! Thanks again all! Come to think of it, my most radically cynical friend has Herrmann's The Ghost And Mrs Muir, and loves it! All is not lost! He's really a big softie under all the posturing!

    By the way, who IS the film composer equivalent of John Grisham?

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    posted 10-22-2000 01:20 PM PT (US)     
     

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