Still, its one of the most hummable titles I have. My vote for score of the year!

THIS TREAD WAS NOT ABOUT MV IN GENERAL BUT ABOUT CHICKEN RUN!!!

Cant' you people just admit that MV makes some dynamite scores without whining about that you "USUALLY" don't like them?

quote:

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Originally posted by Jon:
Why must all MV-bashers include that stupid note "I usually dislike MV bla bla bla...BUT this score was great."
THIS TREAD WAS NOT ABOUT MV IN GENERAL BUT ABOUT CHICKEN RUN!!!
Cant' you people just admit that MV makes some dynamite scores without whining about that you "USUALLY" don't like them?
duh...

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It's not a stupid note, it's high praise. They're saying that they find it good, while usually not liking it. It's like saying "I like The Patriot, even though I hate JW in general" instead of just "I like The Patriot." (Note to literal minded people: just an example) It is indicating that they like this score, despite normally disliking work by those composers, which means that this particular score is that much better.

Why should they "Admit" anything about MV stuff if they usually don't like it? "Dynamite?" I wouldn't assign that label to ANYTHING I didn't like, so why should they?

You know, I'm starting to think that the MV fans are more of a problem than the detractors. Sure, people don't like media ventures, but NOBODY can even mention disliking ANYTHING by ANYONE in MV anymore without getting jumped on instantly and called a basher. What ever happened to tolorence of other people? I mean, come on! It's just an opinion! Can't you respect it instead of whining about it?

1) James Horner
2) Hans Zimmer/Media Ventures, (or those who were even remotely associated with Media Ventures some time in the past.)

[a far 3rd is Eric Serra, though being somewhat less prolific than the previous two.]

It doesn't seem so prominent that posts regarding Jerry Goldsmith often include the disclaimer: "I usually don't like Mr. Goldsmith's work, but...."

It is also observed that the MOST disdain is held against Zimmer afficianados, usually for not being fans of "real" film music. (As the claim goes, that M.V. is less talent, more a "music factory", churning out synthesized, repetitive rubbish.)

This is not the case. However, the disdain continues.

Statements--such as the ones made above--can (perhaps unintentionally) imply that one may expect nothing but continued rubbish from a particular composer, except for a complete diamond-in-the-rough, once every blue moon. This may be your *opinion*, though it is completely unneccessary to antagonize others enforcing it.

This may sound like a re-hashed debate. I'm certain similar ground has been covered--several times previous...however, there are a couple of points to be realized, here:

1) Film music fans are too few in number to self-divide themselves arguing between one generation and the next.

2) It isn't necessary to go through life completely worrying about whose "thin skin" you're going to penetrate--however, no one likes being told that what they enjoy is garbage, even if it is garbage to you.

I, for one, can agree with Lancelot's last three (numbered) points.

However.....

I have never said that the MV Product is garbage; to find that I infer that in any way takes real effort or tissue-thin skin. I do, however, find that much of the Product from that organization has a very repetitive, homogenized sound to it. I have said this elsewhere on the board at greater length, so I won't get into that again here. I would point out that we have heard from someone else on the board who has BEEN to MV and MET some of these guys; what was reported here was that the MV composers KNOW that there is an "MV Sound" - and work toward it! Additionally, it is very fair to have reservations about the future direction of film music based on the financial success of MV and other similar operations it has inspired. NOTHING in my declaration of that very real concern says that the MV Product is invalid as a listening experience for someone! I don't particularly like the MV sound (and I DO have some exceptions to that, including the sublime CHICKEN RUN). I am concerned that orchestrally-performed film scoring will be less and less available as MY preferred film music listening experience. That's it. No "Zimmer sucks!"; no shaking my head at those who DO prefer the majority of MV Product; no remonstrations about folks who think Goldsmith stinks. If folks are feeling beleaguered simply from reading too often that folks like me DON'T like their preferences in scoring then they shouldn't read it! There have been no electronic banners or special graphics castigating the MV faithful, nor any rallies or polls to seperate the "us" from the "them". Some ridiculous things were said about MV supporters in other threads, some time back? NOT TODAY; and not by me. Why is it then preferable that no one ever says a word about MV? Can we not talk about this? Or do so without getting personal? Or choose not to read and/or respond?

I have long desired to see harmony amongst us. I do not think that harmony is necessarily defined by NEVER SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT PREFERENCES IN FILM MUSIC, which is ostensibly why we're here. I cannot fathom how a reasonable opinion on this is insufferably offensive to those who disagree. By "reasonable", I mean that (in my instance) I have stated not just that I do not generally like the MV Product, but why (MY perception that it is homogenized and repetitive). I have further stated that MV worries me, because I fear that the corporate approach to film scoring will become the norm someday. I have ALSO stated that I adore CHICKEN RUN - and I bought it, so I have voted with my dollars for THAT particular MV Product - and also own several others. Am I not to be allowed to reasonably state that MV worries me, BUT that I can still appreciate the occassional Product? Where exactly is my insult in that statement? Who am I offending by saying that I am normally a person who does not like MV, yet adored CHICKEN RUN? The INTENT was to reaffirm the original post-er: I think CHICKEN RUN shreds, too. If I left it at that, we wouldn't have had this digression......but the statement would have had no particular support, and would not have been as specific. I am known as someone with very real reservations about MV, but can acknowledge when I feel that the score is a great one. Better than "shreds", isn't it?

I don't think I agree with most of Chris's politics; but I am happy to let him have them. We are friends, and can agree to disagree without severing all ties or exchanging vituperation. I even admire his rational thought processes and his zeal for the subject, despite the fact that I think he's mistaken sometimes. Chris has never called me a Liberal Cur, so I do not take his pointed comments about other subjects personally. Can this board not function in much the same manner? I imagine it is possible to look up my previous posts with the Search function provided us. Outside of being offended at having been repeatedly lied to by a member, I have often called for Peace amongst us; and I have, in fact, apologized for some of the stuff that others have done on this board. I LIKE this place, and enjoy the community.

I'll like it a lot less when I can no longer offer a reasonable opinion, for fear of hurting someone's feelings or marginalizing some other member who cannot bear the thought of less-than-universal acceptance of his Sacred Cows.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
Before you go claiming that the fans are worse than the non-fans....it's just an impartial observation that the MOST criticism about film music in general falls on:
1) James Horner
2) Hans Zimmer/Media Ventures, (or those who were even remotely associated with Media Ventures some time in the past.)

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This is true, but I was referring to people overreacting to that criticism. Just because someone complains about it doesn't mean you have to get insanely angry. (For those who don't know, it IS possible to handle criticism in a calm and courteous manner.) I personally find people whining about "bashing" to be much more annoying than the alleged "bashing" they are complaining about.
For the record, I like both Horner and MV (most of the time) and I don't go around having a fit whenever anyone says they're bad, or untalented, or whatever. I respect the opinions of others, and fully understand how they can hate music I like, and vice-versa. And I don't see why everyone else can't, too.

Mark & John, et. al.--Yes, I hope it was made clear that I was being slightly extreme in my description, and that I wasn't naming names--in fact, I have none to name...I was attempting to provide hypothetical examples.
I think, after a steady exposure to such examples of negativity (to varying degrees), the jump to defense is somewhat reflexive.
I--and this is me, personally--have never been against object opinions, or the expression thereof, or the fact that stimulating debate can be derived from conflicting opinions, but I--and again, only me, here--don't think that decidedly negative blanket-statements should be maintained about composers' bodies of work, or those who enjoy them regularly. This briefly touches on "name calling", e.g., "Zimmerites" (an implication of blind fanaticism), or various "clever" interpretations of the initials "M.V."--that's playground fodder.

One thing I maintain is a honest attempt to understand others' views, even if I disagree, and a defense against those claiming that I (and/or others) must clearly have no good taste for liking a certain composer, when in fact, I have a very broad appreciation for *all* composers and their work, even the ones I'm not usually fond of.

In example, I would not agree with someone claiming that Howard Shore "fans" don't understand good music, even though I'm not always rushing out to buy Shore's CDs, myself. Nor would I claim that *all* of Shore's work is wholly bad, and it's merely happenchance that there are only two or three of them that are worthwhile. That's just personal tastes.

Marilyn Manson fans, on the other hand...

(I jest, somewhat...)

However...my intent here is not to come off as "preachy"...I just have a lot of passion about film music, and I think it's difficult enough being "the film music guy" to my acquaintances, without being "the film music guy who doesn't really know anything because he likes Eric Serra...."

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Originally posted by Wedge:
I saw "Chicken Run" once, and found the score unremarkable.

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Really? Right from the beginning, I found it was an important part of the movie, and one of the reasons why I loved the movie so.