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Topic: VOYAGE alert!

Lou Goldberg

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The Sci-Fi channel is showing Voyage to the Bottom of the Septic Tank, I mean Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Monday through Friday at 7 AM. So far they have been showing the episodes in the same order (of either production or original show date) as my episode guide. If this continues without interruption, the following episodes and dates should coincide.Oct. 13--Goldsmith's Whale episode
Oct. 16--Leith Stevens scored episode
Oct. 19--Nelson Riddle's episode
Oct. 20--another Leith Stevens episode
Oct. 24--Alexander Courage episode
Oct. 27--last Leith Stevens episode
Nov. 6---Herman Stein episodeEpisodes scored by Robert Drasnin and Lionel Newman show up in late November or December. I'll update this posting with those dates at another time. One of the earliest Voyage episodes has a score by Hugo Friedhofer. If Sci-Fi gives Voyage a second go around, I'll announce that date as well.
Anyone ever notice that the shot of the submarine emerging from the sea at a 45 degree angle that appears behind the end credits looks like an erection? I can't believe they got away with this.....
[Message edited by Lou Goldberg on 10-10-2000]
posted 10-10-2000 09:20 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

Well, the Sci-Fi channel felt that because it was a Friday the 13th that they'd run episodes of the Friday the 13th TV series. So this changes all the dates. The Goldsmith episode should run Monday the 16th. Adjust from there skipping every Sat & Sun.
posted 10-14-2000 12:24 AM PT (US) 
jonathan_little

Standard Userer

Wow, I see that GNP/Crescendo even has the soundtrack to Jerry's episode on CD!
posted 10-15-2000 03:33 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

Wow JL--Thanks for the post. I was beginning to wonder if anyone bothered to look at this topic or cared.NP: Raise the Red Lantern (Zhao Jiping)
posted 10-15-2000 08:46 PM PT (US) 
jonathan_little

Standard Userer

Lou, thanks for the heads-up... I now see why you called it "Voyage to the Bottom of the Septic Tank."
I watched the Whale episode.. it was.. interesting.
I will probably not buy Jerry's droning score to this until it is the absolutely last disc I need to complete my collection.

posted 10-16-2000 06:49 PM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

Not sharing Daniel2's "love" of Goldsmith, I generally do like Goldsmith's scores. Even his TV show main title themes (Voyager, Waltons, Police Story) have been sensational. However, I think I can understand why Irwin Allen went back to Paul Sawtell's original main title music after Goldsmith's one attempt. Goldsmith just didn't seem to capture the series the way Sawtell did with his now famous title music.This would seem to be Goldsmith's one bad turn in theme scoring, except for the finale music that Goldsmith wrote for the episode and was used and reused to cap each subsequent episode. It became the same sort of tag music that was so familiar with Star Trek, easily recognizable and a fitting ending to each episode, regardless of how silly the episode was.
For years, I remembered that tag music, never knowing until I bought the Voyage/Goldsmith CD that Goldsmith had written it.
posted 10-17-2000 06:18 AM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

Lou,
Did you catch Tuesday's episode (Admiral Nelson becomes a human time bomb)? Anyway, it appears this episode introduces the Flying Sub.The first ttime they get ready to launch the flying sub, they takes Goldsmith's music from the whale episode (which was kind of stately, though in a minor key), then add the beat to it to jazz it up, which was kind of neat.
Watching the credits, the score for this episode was by Leith Stevens, but I'm wondering, did he take Goldsmith's score and adapt it for this bit, or was Lionel Newman responsible for it?
posted 10-19-2000 12:42 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

Jonathan---Yes, the Whale episode, with divers walking around inflated trash bags with seaweed strung on them like tinsel and an occasional spray of water from god knows where, defies plausibility. And of course, a whale being an air-breathing mammel, it would drown and die if sedated. But don't be completely turned off, there are some really well-done and even exciting episodes of Voyage. But there are also some very bizarre and not too great episodes as well. Like Lost in Space and the low budget 3rd season of Star Trek, the makers just seemed to have problems figuring out what to do next, what monster or strange character the ships were to encounter and some of the solutions are surreal.Greg--I was out of town visiting someone in the hospital so I taped the Stevens episode but haven't watched it yet. A number of the cues in the Goldsmith score use the figure that Goldsmith uses for his opening theme and were probably supposed to have a stock life beyond the whale episode. Any one from Stevens to the music editors could have adapted the Goldsmith for the episode.
I like the Goldsmith title but it is a moody thing that lacks the bright fanfare call to adventure that Sawtell's title captures, so I understand the decision to drop it. Though it marks an attempt as Voyage went from a b&w first season to the color 2nd season to give Voyage a new "trademark". One of the future Voyage season's has a different arrangement of Sawtell's theme. Lost in Space, of course, has two different Williams themes over it's lifespan.
I like the Whale score overall, I don't consider it a droner, and am glad that it actually made it to CD.
posted 10-20-2000 12:54 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

I watched part of Time Bomb, the Stevens episode that introduces the flying sub, and heard the arrangement of the Goldsmith motif--I thought it was a great cue but haven't a clue what its origin is. The rest of the music, some of it very short cues, at least sounds like Stevens as opposed to some other things he composed around the same time.I guess both Time Tunnel and Land of the Giants are on every other day on the Sci-Fi channel at 10am, Lost in Space at 3pm.
posted 10-20-2000 09:46 PM PT (US) 
John C Winfrey

Standard Userer

Lou, I saw most of these silly things when first shown on TV way back then. Pretty silly especially the falling back and forth across the sub that they did at least once in every episode. Some of my all-time favorite episodes are:1. giant seaweed monster-man in suit
2. space aliens
3. U=boat sub ghost
4. mummy on Seaview
5. silly episodes on landbut the music scores are indeed interesting. Best, JW-a kinder, friendlier postman.
posted 10-21-2000 08:26 PM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

Lou,
It's been interesting watching the series over the last few weeks. I was six when the series first appeared, so seeing it now, it's interesting to see the development of the series from the general mad-scientist, enemy agents adventure type series through it's evolution into silly soggy sub stuff. What's interesting is how it parallels the development of Lost in Space (Voyage premiered in 1964, LIS in 1965). Both were somewhat serious until 1966, when in Voyage's third season and LIS's second, they took the left turn into silliness. Voyage started becoming silly, coinciding with the main title change in yesterday's episode "Leviathan", our first episode with the giant whatever grabbing and shaking the Seaview.Another interesting note might be the impact that Voyage had on serious cinema. What impact, you say? Today's episode featured guest star John Cassavetes. In the late 60's, Cassavetes was making groundbreaking independent films in New York with his close circle of actors, including Gena Rowlands, Ben Gazzara, and others. Cassavetes used acting gigs in mainstream stuff like The Dirty Dozen and others to finance and live on while he was making his own films. Hence the connection between Voyage and serious cinema. This guest star gig indirectly paid for some of his 60's work.
posted 10-26-2000 08:43 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

If Voyage subsidized JC that's all the justification it needs for it's existence. Yes, Irwin Allen must have dropped acid or hired new writers or more likely listened to idiots at the network. And subsequently, these very neat concepts became cartoons. Oh well, they're still fun to watch.
posted 10-26-2000 08:02 PM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

I think it just proves that a major impact on any actor is the material they have to work with.When Cassavetes worked with his own material, he was great. When he worked with Irwin Allen's material, well, it showed. I thought his performance was a little too much, but that's the material and the direction he had to work with. Gotta wonder what was going through this director's mind as he himself was being directed by one of Irwin Allen's stable of hack directors?
posted 10-27-2000 07:59 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

And JC had already directed films by then. I wonder, did he really need the cash or what?
posted 10-27-2000 08:46 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

Last Stevens scored episode this Monday unless some Halloween nonsense gets aired instead. I guess Time Tunnel is on at a time other than 10 am--I tuned in and got Dark Shadows instead.
posted 10-28-2000 09:23 PM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

quote:
And JC had already directed films by then. I wonder, did he really need the cash or what?Him and Orson Welles.
posted 10-29-2000 07:55 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

Ah, GB, sad but true.I recorded the last Stevens-scored episode but haven't watched it yet. Are you still watching the show or have you given up on it?
posted 10-31-2000 01:38 PM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

Lou,
I'm still watching it. It hasn't totally insulted my intelligence, only somewhat insulted it. However, it is extremely difficult to watch 2nd and 3rd season Lost in Space episodes, made about the same time.If anything, it is fun to go back and see a show I enjoyed as a child. What stands out in the series are the special effects (except the giant sea monster shaking the ship) and the music. It's always fun to try and identify the composer. For example, Alexander Courage is so recognizable, since I own his two Star Trek scores (Cage, Where No Man...).
There are certain episodes that I only saw as a child, so it's also fun to see these again after so many years.
If it get's a stupid as Lost in Space (and I don't remember it being that stupid), then I may give it a pass.
Of course, you have to remember what came along in 1966 and blew the competition away (at least in intelligence, if not in the ratings).
posted 11-01-2000 12:29 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

Of the 4 Irwin Allen TV shows, Voyage lasted the longest on air at 4 seasons; so, hopefully that means it was the least silly. Lost in Space did 3 seasons. Land of the Giants did 2 seasons. Time Tunnel did only one season.It seems that Leith Stevens wrote music for all four shows too.
Each of the series has a great premise---action with a submarine, a ship lost in space, a Dr. Cyclops remake, time travel to all the significant world events. Voyage was a movie, perhaps the others should have been movies instead of TV shows, as IA seemed to lose steam trying to figure out what to do next with them.
Nevertheless, IA knew, like Roddenberry, that the episodes called for something special musically and hired talent both old and new to do the job--Goldsmith, Williams, Stevens, Stein, Courage, Salter, Sawtell, Drasnin, Friedhofer, etc.
I was very thankful for the Irwin Allen soundtracks but given what is still uptapped, I wish they'd continue putting them out.
posted 11-02-2000 01:03 AM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

And I think that was one of the two strengths of the IA series - the special effects (which still hold up well) and the music (which also holds up well).I caught a few minutes today before I had to leave for work. The Flying Sub was being launched. I suddenly noticed that it had it's own sequence of specific ques for each part of the launch...the rhythmic stately que when the FS prepares for and launches from the Seaview; the rising theme as it ascends to the surface; the brass flourish as it lifts off from the surface; and finally the flying theme. I think this music appeared in the first Flying Sub episode, which I think means that Leith Stevens probably composed it. This music does sound reminiscent of the music he did for the George Pal movies.
I think it's time for GNP Crescendo to put out a second volume of Voyage music, this time featuring some of the new music done for the second season of the series, such as a Stevens score, and perhaps a Sandy Courage score.
posted 11-02-2000 08:36 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

I taped this episode but I'm still watching ones from last week! At some point the Flying Sub gets regularly scored by a Bernard Herrmann cue from Beneath the 12-Mile Reef.
posted 11-03-2000 03:00 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

I got home from work just in time to catch this bit of shtick from the dinosaur episode (which I was taping anyway):Adr. Nelson & Chief Sharkey are on the beach trying to light a signal fire but all the foliage is damp so Nelson asks Sharkey if he has any paper on him. Sharkey produces his little black book. Nelson asks for it. Sharkey says no. Then they hear the dinosaur looking for them roar and Sharkey hands it over. Nelson opens it and "Hey, I knew this girl..."
Monday's episode stars Patrick Wayne and Michael Ansara. Wednesday's episode is scored by Herman Stein, and introduces the ghostly U-Boat captain who will appear again in another future episode. Thursday's episode is based on the film version, same plot, Van Allen belt on fire. Next Monday a whale swallows a nuclear bomb (I kid you not--poor whale). Next Thursday, Friday, and Monday there's no Adr. Nelson! Basehart was sick and they shot 3 episodes around him using substitute admiral figures (one of which is Gary Merrill). The U-Boat captain returns Tuesday in what is considered by many to be the best show of the 2nd season.
Then that Wednesday starts Season 3 with--SURPRISE!--yet another Leith Stevens-scored episode that I didn't notice before.
A lot of bilge water for the old VCR to handle, but worth it for the scores.
posted 11-03-2000 08:45 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

In yet another desperate attempt to keep this topic alive and before the public eye...I visited www.Scifi.com and looked up their programming schedule---it looks as if Voyage is the only Irwin Allen program they are presently showing. Time Tunnel, Lost in Space, & Land of the Giants are not on for the present.
posted 11-09-2000 12:18 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

I can't believe I'm still at this topic. I used to watch Bresson and Cocteau movies, now I come home from work and watch VOYAGE. I watched the episode broadcast yesterday, "Night of Terror," yet another one with Nelson and Sharkey on an island with dinosaurs making off-screen sounds.Interestingly, the episodes now have a new title sequence with a neat radar scope pattern and worse a narrator. The flying sub still isn't tracked with Herrmann yet. The insert shots of the sub were so bad--strings and all. But I love the sub model (even if it's obviously a model).
Taking this episode as average, I guess the thing about Voyage is this--it's not horribly bad but it's not horribly good either, just mediocre. And yet, as is obvious from the fact that the show is still being broadcast 30+ years later, these episodes are going to outlive anything I ever try to put out into the world. Kinda sad, when you think about it.
In any case, there is an episode coming up with another Alexander Courage score. I don't have the date in front of me, but if anyone out there still gives a damn about this, I'll look it up and post it.
NP: Amarcord (Nino Rota)
[Message edited by Lou Goldberg on 11-30-2000]
posted 11-30-2000 03:05 AM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

I haven't been able to watch lately, end of semester for both work and classes. But I am taping and will probably catch up over Christmas. However, I do switch on for a few minutes as I'm getting ready. The last one you mentioned once again used footage from Allen's Lost World.I can see a definite difference between 1st/2nd and 3rd season episodes. The early ones generally kept down to earth, but 3rd took a definite left turn into fantasy land. Must have been the Lost in Space influence.
posted 11-30-2000 06:02 AM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

Lou,
Special effects question - do you know if the underwater model shots were filmed "wet" (in a water filled tank) or "dry" (no water with a "water" effect added later)?
posted 11-30-2000 10:24 AM PT (US) 
JeffBond

Standard Userer

The special effects for Voyage were filmed "wet" at the tank at Fox studios. Cool stuff (and you can see bubbles in most of the shots that let you know it's really underwater). Interestingly, when Allen filmed a kind of sequel pilot, City Beneath the Sea, L.B. Abbott filmed many of the effects "dry" which led to a mistake. There's a scene in which a character "freezes" footage of a flying sub supposedly taken by underwater cameras--the sub movement does in fact freeze, but the rippling water effect superimposed over it to make it look "wet" goes right on rippling.I noticed in the last couple of episodes there's an opening cue that ingeniously employs both the Paul Sawtell theme and the Goldsmith one as motifs playing off each other.
posted 11-30-2000 01:05 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

Jeff-Like the Jeff of FSM and Star Trek scores book fame? What are you doing over here at MM? Doesn't matter, welcome--we're glad to see you. I actually saw you in person at the Goldsmith concert in Toledo some years back but didn't introduce myself. Thanks for adding Voyage info to the topic.
posted 11-30-2000 08:37 PM PT (US) 
Mark Hatfield
Standard Userer

If that's really THE Bond, Jeff Bond:Thanks for a bitchin' book about STAR TREK music, man!
I bought it from FSM some time ago and loved the hell out of it. I still sometimes read through it while listening to some of the CD's on one of my All Star Trek days.If it's NOT really Jeff Bond....then, well, you're just a big booger-butt, whoever you are.
posted 11-30-2000 11:59 PM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

Thanks for the info on voyage, Jeff. You're right, the air bubbles are a dead giveaway. Just makes me wonder though, how a sub that leaks that much air stays afloat.
posted 12-01-2000 06:34 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

Greg, you're nit-picking again. Didn't your mother tell you you can't enjoy schlock sci-fi TV if you're going to deconstruct it like that....
posted 12-01-2000 09:12 PM PT (US) 
John C Winfrey

Standard Userer

That fake Whale episode was one of the first I saw of Voyage to Bottom of the Swimming Pool. Don't forget my favorite episode:tracked with Day Earth Stood Still and Invaders music-little robots sabotaging the Seaview. Great stuff. Mummy, ghost, aliens and giant seaweed monster favorites too. I remember the U-boat commander ones too. Best, JW.
posted 12-03-2000 06:39 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

Well John, the Seaweed, I mean, The Seaview sets sail again Monday morning....
posted 12-03-2000 07:01 PM PT (US) 
JeffBond

Standard Userer

Uh, yes, I'm the FSM Jeff Bond. Lou Goldberg, if you saw me at the Goldsmith Toledo concert, how did you know it was me? My photo wasn't in FSM until AFTER that concert. Insane collector Ron Burbella was there too.Thank you to anyone who bought my book. I get a monthly statement from my publisher about that book's earnings. Each statement begins: "Congratulations! You now owe us only $___ dollars..."
posted 12-12-2000 01:58 PM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Standard Userer

JeffBond,Now that's funny!
Maybe one day it will say: "WOO HOO! Here's a check for ____! You the Man!posted 12-12-2000 02:08 PM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

quote:
Greg, you're nit-picking again. Didn't your mother tell you you can't enjoy schlock sci-fi TV if you're going to deconstruct it like that....Lou, I sometimes have to get into a "Mystery Science Theatre 3000" frame of mind to watch the series. I kind of wonder what Mike and the 'bots would do with an episode.
Finally caught the "Richard Basehart ill" episodes, especially the giant underwater spider where they had a stand-in with his hat cocked to hide his face or his face wrapped in bandages and Basehart doing voiceovers from his hospital room (or wherever).
Also the one where Crane had the mad sicentist under the gun, all the mad scientist had was a device controlling Admiral Park (Nelson's stand-in for the episode). Why didn't Crane just shoot the scientist? He would have dropped the device and Crane could have turned it off.
I'm still trying to catch up, so i haven;t hit the 3rd season yet, when things (supposedly) get really silly.
Deconstruct? Yes, but then that's half the fun.
posted 12-13-2000 07:28 AM PT (US) 
Luscious Lazlo

Standard Userer

Dear Greg or current occupant: I genuinely like Goldsmith's VOYAGE theme. It's darkness & grimness & anti-melodicism surprised the crap out of me.As you coyly alluded, 1966 was the year of BATMAN. Which explains why VOYAGE & LOST IN SPACE turned into campy cheezfests. (Bill Mumy mentioned this in the LIS liner notes.)
Regarding Sandy Courage: The man is a mystical genius. As well as the most tragically underemployed writer in the biz. (Partially because Gene Roddenberry cheated Courage out of half of the STAR TREK theme royalties. Which is why Courage later boycotted STAR TREK.) As you said, Sandy's stuff is instantly recognizable. And he didn't hesitate to semi-plagiarize from Stravinsky. Sandy repeatedly used a suspenseful mysterioso 3-note motif. He would do it 3 times with different instruments each time: (flute) DIT DIT DIT...(oboe)DIT DIT DIT.....(muted trumpet)DIT DIT DIT. That 3-note shtick is a variation on something in THE RITE OF SPRING.
posted 12-13-2000 09:29 AM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

No complaints here from me. Re-watching the series over the past few weeks, even with it's bad acting and campy plots, two things stood out for me - the special effects and the music.With the music, it's hard to tell where it came from. Since most of the credits go to Lionel Newman, it was mostly re-edited previously scored music or just stuff pulled from the Fox vault. You can hear bits of Goldmsith here and Courage there, and others who I have a hard time identifying without a credit.
Don't misunderstand me, I liked Goldsmith's music for the Whale episode; and while I do like the new theme, it's just that it didn't fit the series as well as Paul Sawtell's majestic opening and closing themes. In my book, that theme rivals Courage's Star Trek theme as being so evocative, representative and identifiable with the series.
Whatever the case, any of this music (TOS Star Trek or Voyage) blows away the current Star Trek series music.
posted 12-13-2000 10:34 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Standard Userer

Jeff--You were with friends and one of them called you by name in Toledo otherwise I wouldn't have known you.Everyone--I'm sorry I didn't get back to give out the date of the Alexander Courage episode which has already passed.
COMING--Thursday Morning Dec. 21 (barring schedule changes) it's the fun Mummy episode with an original score by Lionel Newman said to be one of the finest for the series.
Lazlo--Thanks for the Batman connection, it makes sense that they'd try to copy cat that camp success but you have to have the right sensibility for it. How did Roddenberry screw Courage out of royalties? What is the whole story there?
An Observation--Just watched Brand of the Beast, the episode for 12/13. A great premise, got to get to a sinking ship in time, totally tossed away by Nelson becoming a very poor-looking werewolf and causing havoc that delays the sub (couldn't they have come up with a more reasonable way to slow the sub up for suspense?). Watching this random episode reminded me that there are still a few things about this series I haven't acclaimated to:
One, the Seaview is huge! 2 decks, high ceilings, lots of room in the cabins. I'm sorry but subs are claustrophobic in real life, cramped little spaces. But silly me wanting plausiblity, what was I thinking?
Two, everyone underplays to the point of being deadpan. I love Chip but he's in a coma. Now perhaps the underplay is meant to keep things serious and avoid camp, but this is too much.
Frame 37 has caved in and the compartment is flooding (have you noticed it's always Frame 37 that goes--you'd think they'd shore that thing up, in fact, given how many times the damned sub malefunctions from episode to episode you'd think they'd scrap it and build a new one). Anyway, Frame 37 has had it. Cut to Chip: business as usual. I mean come on, the ship is flooding, you're all gonna die, and all Chip can muster is another command into the innercom like he's ordering food at the pull-up window. The sub rocks back and forth tossing these guys around like salad and Chip's tie is still clipped in place. I almost kinda wish they had a Dr. Smith type to fret and moan on this show. I mean I guess I never feel like they are in real danger because they never act like they are.
Three, it's always the werewolf or the mummy or the seaweed creature or dinosaurs---
Four, Oh never mind........
Final observation--Beast had some great scoring even if it was library cues. Neat 60s electronics for the Nuclear reactor pile, an unmistakable Leith Stevens cue waiting for Nelson to come out of the diving bell, the final Goldsmith tag. The episodes may not be the ideal sub adventures I'd like to see, but Voyage certainly gives me what I like to hear.
posted 12-13-2000 10:25 PM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant
Standard Userer

One more nit to pick, then I'll shut up. Everytime they open the Flying Sub doors, doesn't that flood the whole flying sub compartment, making the sub front heavy and causing it to sink?Oh, well, one more, I loved the episode where Patterson's in the Reactor room opening and closing the control rods like he's looking in a drawer for a screwdriver or something. No nuclear safeguards here.
posted 12-14-2000 08:08 AM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
