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      What are the views on Bootleg CDRs?

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    Topic:   What are the views on Bootleg CDRs?

     Alwin
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    I've never bought a bootleg in my life. But I don't understand what the fuss is about. It isn't ignorance on my part, but rather, naiveness towards the business.

    To me personally, I'd be interested in buying a 2 CD set of ID4-complete, or the Armageddon-complete. These scores, for one reason or another, will never see the light of day in a legit pressing.

    On the other hand, I understand that the artists (Arnold and HGW), will never get a cent from this, nor will the Record Labels.

    What a mess.

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    posted 10-09-2000 08:37 AM PT (US)     

     Wedge
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    Here's how I justify owning bootlegs:

    1) I almost ALWAYS trade for them. Buying them profits the bootlegger, which I don't like to do.

    2) I make every effort to own the original release -- if it is still available and for a reasonable price. That way, the composer gets his/her cut. (Example: I own a CD-R of the Gremlins bootleg, but I bought the official cassette.)

    3) If an official release comes out AFTER I own the bootleg, I buy it. (Example: Since I have the bootleg of Twilight Zone: The Movie, I probably don't need to buy the CD-issue, but I'm going to try.)

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    posted 10-09-2000 08:55 AM PT (US)     

     TimT
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    My philosophy is the same as Wegde's.
    Especially 2 & 3.

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    posted 10-09-2000 09:35 AM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    I have refused offers of CDRs for the recent Prometheus releases. I'm still aching to have them, but I feel that it makes more sense to put the money in their direction, so as to encourage more great releases like THE CHALLENGE and CONTRACT ON CHERRY STREET (as a consequence, I still don't have them, sob sob sob, but once my first paycheck kicks in ...) I would also refuse CDRs of the FSM releases, since I believe in encouraging small labels like these. (No one has offered me CDRs of the FSM stuff, for whatever, heh heh, reason, but surely they're floating around.)

    On the other hand, a CDR of something that's already a bootleg (e.g. the complete PREDATOR) seems meaningless to me. I have traded for such titles as well. Bootlegs should not have to exist at all; it is a factor of the stupidity and greed of the unions and the studios. (Though there is the odd refusenik case of a COMPOSER blocking a release: James Horner prevailing on companies not to issue CDs of BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS, Christopher Young begging against CDs of PRANKS or THE POWER, Jerry Goldsmith nixing a CD of THE VANISHING, and so on ... and I've grown quite fond of THE VANISHING, so I can't agree with his opinion there, but then Goldsmith the album producer has ALWAYS been very overly hard on Goldsmith the composer ...)

    And I am not terribly principled about CDRs kyped from the larger labels. But then, I don't have many CDRs as it is (if I had my own burner, perhaps I'd be more in-demand as someone to trade with).

    A question within the question: Are CDRs somehow more "wrong" than cassette copies? It seems to me that the principle is the same. Although of course it's another matter to make a CDR of a legit release and sell it as if it WERE legit, but I don't even want to GET into that right now ... (although I HAD wanted to start a thread about the ethics of CDRs, so perhaps later I'll have to ...)

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    posted 10-09-2000 09:57 AM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    and the principle is the same as regards mp3.


    all it does it want me to have an original legit pressing, which, like Marian, I buy when I can.

    NP -- Assassins, Carter Burwell

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    posted 10-09-2000 10:16 AM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    Rocco, I agree 100%.

    JJH, you mentioned my name, but you must have meant someone else of the above posters. In particular because I DO have quite a lot of CDRs, large parts of my classical collection are copies from my father's CDs. BUT: I spend a lot of money for CDs, I don't think I would spend more if there were no CD burners, so there's no loss for the record companies. And, like Rocco, I would not make copies of CDs by really small lables like FSM.

    NP: Leonard Bernstein: Chichester Psalms (Israel Philharmonic Orchestra, Wiener Jeunesse Chor, Bernstein)

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    posted 10-09-2000 11:35 AM PT (US)     

     Jeron
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    Ditto Wedge, ditto Rocco, ditto JJ, and gosh darn it, ditto Marian. That's all I have to say.

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    posted 10-09-2000 12:52 PM PT (US)     

     André Lux
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    I don't buy CDRs for just ONE reason: they destroy your cd player.

    I frined once lend one to me and my cd player never worked again after a few days listening to that thing.

    As for bootlegs... well, some times we HAVE to get them. Otherwise how would I be able to listen to SPACEHUNTER????

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    posted 10-09-2000 05:32 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    or Morricone's What Dreams May Come...


    NP -- String Quartet No. 1, Alfred Schnittke

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    posted 10-09-2000 06:22 PM PT (US)     

     Obi Jok Kenobi
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    Well, personally, I will get bootlegs, but only in mp3 format. I wouldn't want to pay for them at all, and of course, if there is ever an official release of a score, I will buy it. Same goes with promo scores.

    In regards to mp3's, I generally do buy the score on CD after I've heard it in mp3. The only problem at the moment, is that I'm unemployed and can't really afford to buy any CD's at the moment.

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    posted 10-09-2000 06:51 PM PT (US)     

     Swashbuckler
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    A complicated state of affairs.

    I'm with Wedge regarding owning the actual releases if they exist. For boots and out-of-print stuff, however, I have no problem with CD-Rs.

    The simple fact is that a CD-R that is either traded for or bought for the price of the blank disc itself is legal. It is a private recording for home use and no profit is being made on it.

    Regarding boots... well... we've had that discussion from here to eternity. My position is that if it were available already, I'd have bought it. And I will if it becomes available. If it isn't available, and I want to hear it, as a consumer I go to whomever offers it to me.

    NP - David Newman Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey

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    posted 10-09-2000 07:03 PM PT (US)     

     James
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    If you replace H Rocco's name with mine, you will have a perfect rendering of how I feel (and put more eloquently, I might add).

    I bought my first bootleg only three weeks ago (I have long been opposed to them), and it was because I love the music in the film so much (and the film itself) and it means so much to me that I had to have the music... unfortunately, the sound quality left a LOT to be desired, so I won't be doing this often.

    Like I said, H'ness has it perfect.

    James

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    posted 10-09-2000 07:38 PM PT (US)     

     John Dunham
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    I agree with both Wedge and Rocco.

    I'll get CDRs of hard to find stuff (Cherry 2000, Farewell To The King) but I wouldn't go for a CDR of an in-print or recently OOP release (Hollow Man, Volcano).
    I'll get CDRs of boots, only if I have any original release of the score. I ALWAYS buy the originals first, if there are any, then get CDRs of boots. (I almost NEVER buy original boots because of pricing and quality or lack thereof).

    NP: Small Soldiers messed up boot that needs fixin' (I have the Varese CD, of course)

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    posted 10-10-2000 06:05 AM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    quote:
    Originally posted by André Lux:
    I don't buy CDRs for just ONE reason:they destroy your cd player.

    That's certainly the first time I've heard about a CDR harming the player. If that's really true, and if the CDR was really the reason for this, it must have been a very strange player.

    NP: Leonard Bernstein: Symphony #1 "Jeremiah" (Israel Philharmonic Orchestra, Bernstein)

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    posted 10-10-2000 02:41 PM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
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    CD-Rs destroy your CD player?

    Your CD player must realize, "Hmm, I see that I have a CD-R in here instead of a pressed CD..." ** SELF DESTRUCT SEQUENCE INITIATED. **

    ?? Something like that?

    [Message edited by jonathan_little on 10-10-2000]

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    posted 10-10-2000 05:37 PM PT (US)     

     Swashbuckler
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    Yeah... last I heard, the CD player doesn't actually touch what's in it...

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    posted 10-10-2000 07:16 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    well, this is not as extreme as Andre's experience, but some poorly produced CDR's wreak havoc on my computer system.


    all it takes is to eliminate the 2-second gap, people. you can do it.


    NP -- King of the Khyber Rifles, Herrmann

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    posted 10-10-2000 08:29 PM PT (US)     

     Darth Fart
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    Cleaning your CD player lense should solve any playing problems.
    I had a problem where my player wouldn't play any tracks from a CD-R. A quick cleaning of the lense solved it.

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    posted 10-11-2000 06:00 AM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
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    Remember boys and girls, don't use those "CD Laser cleaners" in your CD-R.

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    posted 10-11-2000 10:26 AM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    There are, of course, players that have problems with certain CDR brands. But that usually doesn't stop them from playing other CDs!

    A strange thing I recently encountered: After a CDR trade, I put in one of the CDs and it played without problems. After track #3, I stopped it because I had to leave. When I came back, I wanted to play it again, but the player couldn't start it. Same with the other CDR from the same trade that was the same brand. Everything else still played without problems, but I never managed to have my player play these 2 CDs again. I simply copied them onto other CDR brands on my computer, so it wasn't really a problem, but these 2 CDs were the ONLY two my player didn't want. I later gave them to a friend.

    My father's player has problems with some CDR types which I can play smoothly, however.

    NP: The Sea Hawk (Erich Wolfgang Korngold; Utah Symphony Orchestra, Varujan Kojian)

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    posted 10-11-2000 03:12 PM PT (US)     
     

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