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  Official SUPERMAN IV Score Petition - Sign it today!

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Topic:   Official SUPERMAN IV Score Petition - Sign it today!

 Jeron
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As seen at Filmtracks.com:

Are you a fan of the Superman film series? After John Williams' departure after the first classic film, the scores for Superman II and Superman III --while making use of Williams' themes-- were lacking in depth, sound quality, and creativity. With Superman IV in 1987, however, came an injection of new material by Williams and Alexander Courage. To this day, however, no album has been released for Superman IV, and the rights to the music are currently locked. Information about a new online petition for the release of this score has been announced.

http://www.geocities.com/s4campaign/

Let's get the word out about this petition and get this thing released!

Jeron

[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 28 August 2000).]

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posted 08-28-2000 06:52 AM PT (US)    ip  

 TimT
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Why is that a company like WB will not even allow another label to release it if they have no intention to do so?

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posted 08-28-2000 10:39 PM PT (US)    ip  

 mtodd
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Well, that's an age old question: why do some companies seem so resistant to licensing their back catalogs. One reason, as told to me by Paramount, another studio who are reluctant to license, is that the lawyers are unwilling to open old files and do work on projects which earn the studio "pennies" in profits.

Now Superman 4, was a film WB would rather forget, and had its fair share of legal headaches in the past...it all played out but I can just see the studio lawyers rolling their eyes and moving like slugs if faced with having to put together an insignificant (in the large scheme) deal.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be sweet to see this score out, too...BUT...

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posted 08-29-2000 06:27 AM PT (US)    ip  

 Darth Fart
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Only Rhino realistically can released it because they are owned by Time Warner.

Depends if STM 2 CD Set sold well.

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posted 08-29-2000 02:39 PM PT (US)    ip  

 ZapBrannigan
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Maybe the eventual DVD release is the most realistic venue for this music. At least you'd have a permanent record of it, even though (I understand) the plan is not to do an isolated score on the DVD.

That's got to be better than nothing.

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posted 08-31-2000 08:59 AM PT (US)    ip  

 Luscious Lazlo
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I'm deeply grateful for this effort. Alexander Courage is a writer of tremendous mystical subtlety. Along with his STAR TREK scores, he also wrote a masterpiece called WILD ADVENTURE (from "Lost in Space, Volume 2").

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posted 09-01-2000 10:03 AM PT (US)    ip  

 AaronR1074
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Cool! I'll sign this one, as well as one for Superman II if you plan to start one for that as well NP - Jazz Goes to Hollywood: "Mission Impossible" by Lalo Schifrin. (I caught this on MusicChoice and it's very cool!)

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posted 09-01-2000 04:53 PM PT (US)    ip  

 A.G
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Thanks for the support guys!
I know we face an uphill struggle to get this score released, but then anythings possible!
Darth Fart, you are right, it is Rhino who are the most obvious choice, but who knows? Warner may license it to another label.
Aaron, Superman II has already been released, Superman IV has not recieved a release in any shape or form. However, an expanded release of that would be nice as well....

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posted 09-02-2000 04:40 AM PT (US)    ip  

 Darth Fart
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I've heard things from a source that suggest that when WB was approached, they wouldn't license out the score to anyone. Intrada didn't approach them, but someone did. I can't name them.

There might be a lot of work, I bet lawyers will be needed to get this score out.

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posted 09-02-2000 09:47 AM PT (US)    ip  

 A.G
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Just knocking this one back up for those who haven't seen it. I'm sending a letter and the petition off to Rhino soon, fingers crossed .....

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posted 10-25-2000 10:13 AM PT (US)    ip  

 H Rocco
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Occasionally Warners can be moved, but I'm uncertain what the circumstances are. They did let GNP/Crescendo release that two-score album of CAPRICORN ONE/OUTLAND. Given their track record with fantasy scores and nothin' but, Crescendo is perhaps the likeliest outfit to release SUPERMAN IV. I'm not sure there would be considered to be enough of a market for it for Rhino to want to tackle it, since Courage is largely unknown to the general public (most of whom, if they pay attention to composer names at all, probably assume Goldsmith composed the first STAR TREK theme!) Whereas Crescendo, with all those STAR TREK albums, might better figure out how to market SUPERMAN IV to Courage followers. Just a wild, random guess.

I wonder what the re-use rights would be like. SUPERMAN IV was recorded in England, but with TWO different orchestras ... the National is the one I remember. Paying off BOTH orchestras might somehow prove prohibitive. I believe a similar thing happened on 13TH WARRIOR: some of the cues missing from the Varese album were picked up later in Hollywood, and no way could Varese afford to pay off the London re-use AND the more expensive Hollywood re-use. (I don't have the movie itself in front of me to check the back credits, but I do seem to remember a credit for a Los Angeles scoring stage as well as the credit for the London stage. Or is it THE MUMMY I'm thinking of? Same problem in either event, though. Well, perhaps not -- the cheaper London re-use is surely one of the main reasons THE MUMMY was able to have an ISO score on the DVD. Oh never mind, I'm getting off topic.)

So rights to SUPERMAN IV reverted to Warners, eh? Remember that it was produced and released by the CANNON organization, since demised. (Is that a word? I guess it is now. ) I do seem to remember something about Warner Tamerlane owning the music though; same thing happened on SUPERGIRL, which was released by Tri-Star (Warners took a pass on the completed movie.) Of course, since the company owns DC Comics, it only stands to reason that they could demand the publishing rights.

[Message edited by H Rocco on 10-25-2000]

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posted 10-25-2000 10:49 AM PT (US)    ip  

 PeterK
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...but there are no re-use fees outside of Los Angeles, at least in the "union" sense. There may be other kinds of fees required of the music performed by the NPO or LSO, but nothing close to the astronomical/outrageous fees required by Los Angeles music unions.

Am I mistaken? I haven't checked up in a few years on this, and I could be wrong, but I don't think I am....

PeterK

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posted 10-25-2000 11:52 AM PT (US)    ip  

 H Rocco
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It's true that no other country in the world has re-use fees like ours (and not even the whole country has them), but I'm pretty sure London DOES have a kind of re-use fee ... what they call it, I'm not sure. I've heard it's roughly half of what Hollywood unions demand, unless there have been modifications.

Actually, I remember reading a VARIETY article in the late eighties that indicated London musicians were getting sufficiently pricey that they were losing a lot of work -- British movies and TV, and even Hollywood pictures -- to Munich and Budapest. Budapest no longer seems to be seriously in the running, and it seems to be mainly John Scott who likes Munich ...

ehhhh, I dunno.

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posted 10-25-2000 12:08 PM PT (US)    ip  

 A.G
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I don't think LA was used, actually I'm 95% sure, Courgae said in an interview that the score was recorded in London, he made no mention of anywhere else.

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posted 10-25-2000 12:10 PM PT (US)    ip  

 Nicolai P. Zwar
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As far as I know, London (and indeed Europe in general) does have re-use fees, but it is handled differently; I have been told (but never bothered to check into it) that in most cases they are handled on a case-to-case basis, they are not "fixed fees" like those American union orchestras are getting.

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posted 10-25-2000 02:15 PM PT (US)    ip  

 PeterK
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Well, in any event, I doubt the re-use fee problem would prevent SUPERMAN IV from being released. Like's been said, the problem would mainly be in the owner of the recording actually licensing it to another label. The GNP/Crescendo idea is quite good, although Rhino is as well. Rhino knows the niche market - I just wished they hadn't hoped for heaven when they jumped into releasing soundtracks. Their lofty expectations, and their star producer leaving, left them dry and less than enthusiastic about further releases. That is, until Superman came along, but that's a different story!

My apologies for leading this one a little off topic....

PeterK

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posted 10-25-2000 02:54 PM PT (US)    ip  

 Darth Fart
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Tell us more, PeterK

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posted 10-26-2000 12:31 AM PT (US)    ip  

 A.G
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Yeah Pete, tel us more. Did the Superman set do really well?

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posted 10-26-2000 02:50 AM PT (US)    ip  

 PeterK
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By saying Superman was a different story, all I meant was that it will sell more than "Erich Wolfgang Korngold - The Warner Bros. Years" and other similar titles and compilations, simply for two reasons:

1) Superman was made after Star Wars, and was quite a success.

2) Superman was composed by John Williams

These two ingredients combine for solid sales over the long run. Titles like "Korngold" will basically sell within the first few months of release, when devoted Korngold fans get wind of the release and purchase it, and will eventually dwindle to almost no sales!

Now, with Superman IV, we're talking "Superman," but not the original, and definitely not John Williams. You lose a lot of significant (relative word, significant in terms of a 4th sequel score in this case) sales over time because of these two factors. Because of this, who knows if Rhino would release it, if they had the chance. My guess is they would, as any re-use fees would be totally arbitrary at this point (considering how long ago the recording was made, and that multiple orchestras were used), and the major costs involved would be manufacturing (cheap) and distributing (not so cheap, but doable). Theorectically, they could make money off of 1,000 units if the license fee for the music itself was very favorable.

PeterK

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posted 10-26-2000 09:48 AM PT (US)    ip  

 A.G
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Interesting Peter.
You said it's "Definitely not John Williams", don't forget that John Williams composed 2 NEW themes for Alexander Courage to incorporate into his score. So the score does contain material by John Williams not available.

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posted 10-26-2000 09:57 AM PT (US)    ip  

 PeterK
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You are right. My mistake. The album tends to be subtitled "Music by Alexander Courage" more so than "Music by John Williams." I guess that's what I was thinkin'.

Peter

NP - Nurse Betty, score by Rolfe Kent

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posted 10-26-2000 11:51 AM PT (US)    ip  

 majestyx
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Does anyone know how much new music was actually composed/recorded/used in Superman IV? Did it use any of the music from the first three films?

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posted 03-24-2002 01:13 PM PT (US)    ip  

 
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