-Hollow Man (2000) - Bomb
-Haunting, The (2000) - Bomb
-13th Warrior (1999) - HUGE BOMB
-Mummy, The (1999) - Made some box office, but a horrible movie.
- Star Trek: Insurrection (1998) - haven't seen the movie, but it did ok at the box office.
- Small Soldiers (1998) Poor box office.
- Mulan (Good box office, good movie)
- US Marshals (1998) - Bomb
- Deep Rising (1998) - Bomb
- Edge, The (though I enjoyed the movie, it was a HUGE) - Bomb (only $27 mil at box office)
- Air Force One (1997) - How this movie made so much money is beyond me. It was OK, but a letdown for a Petersen film.
- L.A. Confidential (1997) - (OK at box office, Great film)
- Fierce Creatures (1997) - Bomb
- Star Trek : First Contact - Fairly Well BO
- Ghost and the Darkness (1996) - Bomb
- Chain Reaction (1996) - Bomb
- Executive Decision (1996) - Bomb
- City Hall (1996) - Bomb
- Powder (1995) - Bomb
- First Knight (1995) - Bomb
- Congo (1995) - Bomb

OK that's enough, but even the hardcore Goldsmith fan can come to the conclusion by those films, that he hasn't scored many movies worth mentioning. Sure, there a few standouts (Mulan and L.A. Confidential), but for the most part, he scores bad films that do not do well. I would understand if he scored alot of films that didn't do very well at the box office, but were still good movies... But that just isn't the case.

Then there is Hans Zimmer, who's films always always do well...

-Mission Impossible 2 (2000) - Poor film, but it grossed $212 million.
-Gladiator (2000) - Excellent movie, also grossed near $200, $180 to be exact.
-Road to El Dorado (2000) - Bomb, $95 mil budget, grossed $50.
-Thin Red Line, The (1998) - While not the most impressive Box Office numbers, this movie was truly a masterpiece, and Zimmer's best score of his career IMO.
-Prince of Egypt, The (1998) - $100 mil at box office, flawed but great movie.
-As Good as it Gets (1998) - Huge hit, grossed $150 mil.
-Peacemaker, The (1997) - So/So movie, So/So box office, $50 mil.
-Rock, The (1996) - Grossed $135 mil, good action flick.

Ok... you get the idea. Zimmer seems to always score films that are quite good and do very well at the box office. Sure, some of you will disagree on how good a film you think these are, but you cannot deny the fact that so many people enjoy them, hence, they make so much money.

I just find it ironic that so many of you bash the hell out of Zimmer. Let's face it, us score lovers don't matter. We are such a minor % that they just don't care. These composers score FILMS, not CDS... And by the looks of it, Zimmer's films are so much better.

Again, don't get me wrong, I don't hate and have never bashed Goldsmith. And, again, I never have been a huge fan, and I'm sure back in the 70's and 80's he was brilliant. Lately, though, it's just bomb after bomb. I know "box office means nothing", but "good films" do, and Goldsmith lacks them. Granted it's probably never his fault, but something is definately wrong with the films he scores lately.

However, after the things written above, I am now sure your ideas make absolutely no sense whatsoever and that you are posting just to see people jump to defend their idols.

I will know proceed to other threads that are worth reading....

NP - Much ado about nothing (haha)

I understand perfectly what you are saying. Yet, the success or even the quality of a film has nothing to do with the quality of the film score or the talent (or lack thereof) of the composer.

There are many bad (?) films with great scores by great composers and there are many good (?) films with bad scores by mediocre composers. There are many box office champs sporting terrible scores and many bombs sporting masterpieces.

Your argument is incredible flawed in more ways than I just tried to present above. If you like Zimmer better, fine. If you like Goldsmith better, that's fine too. But trying to justify quality of film music by the quality and/or success of a movie is just nonesense and I judge you know that. Nice research you did, though. Yet you conviently left out some of the movies sporting Zimmer scores that were incredible bombs. The span of time between the Rock and the other movies you chose to parade includes some major box office results for Goldsmith that you did not list either.

Yet, all this doesn't really matter for what counts for me is the quality of the music and that is independed from the quality of movie. Hmm...I'm repeating myself here...hehe.

Scott

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott (edited 21 August 2000).]

Anyway,
I shall re-write it. This internet thing. You just never know, do you?

Hasta,
while I appreciate your attempt here, I would like to point out that the quality of a score or the ability of any composer has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the movie or the success thereof.

Further, you seemed to have left out several rather questionable films scored by Zimmer right after the Rock and others with music by Goldsmith that were a huge success during that time frame.

Zimmer is a good composer. Goldsmith is a master. Yet both produce the kind of scores based on their talents, preferances, experiences and formal (or the lack of it) musical education and training. It really has nothing to do with the films.

Scott

Whatever you say, son.

Now go back to bed.

1) I do wish Jerry would score an A grade movie more often (or movies with greater variation in genre). Someone recently posted a similar topic (in reverse) for Williams, who they wish would do some more light hearted action/adventure stuff. The other day I listened to The Love Field (not a big box office take) and liked what I heard, a lot!

2) The Thin Red Line: You're correct, this movie is something special. A repeat of Ebert and Scorsese's 'top 10' of the 90's had Martin place TTRL as his #2. This was one of those films which many did not understand.

_Sc

I really don't give a s**t about how well or bad a movie does. I care about the quality of the music!

The poor performance of a movie isn't Goldsmith's problem... he gets paid the same no matter now bad the movie does. Of course, big movies like Titanic also rake in money from the score albums. (IMO) Titanic was a failure as a score, but the masses still bought the music because of the hit movie it was in.

As for the Media Ventures crew, I won't even start... (I'll leave that to Mr. Lux )

Here's another fact I think you overlooked:

Jerry Goldsmith does NOT know that the latest film project he is writing for will be a bomb. So, how can you blame him? Most of the time, these composers accept an assignments long before any scenes have been completed.

And yes, while adding up box office numbers and seeing which composers are near the top is indeed interesting, it's only a simple observation. It means nothing. After all, if I were to look at composers based on box office success, would I accept James Horner has my favorite and admit he's the best? No. John Williams? No. Alan Silvestri? Not really.

I am not saying I don't like these composers, not at all. What I am saying is these guys are not my favorites, and they shouldn't be just because they've scored films that have made money.

Just a few thoughts...

PeterK

ehm...John Williams not a fave of yours. There goes my respect. (j/k)

Scott

1) STOP SPENDING 100 MILLION DOLLARS ON FILMS THAT COULD EASILY BE MADE FOR A FRACTION OF THE PRICE!!

2) STOP PAYING STARS 20 MILLION DOLLARS FOR FILMS, ESPECIALLY ACTION PICS, DRAMAS & COMEDIES. IN THEORY, THEY'RE WORTH IT (IN THEORY!), BUT THERE HAS TO BE A LIMIT!

and perhaps the most important edict of all...

3) DON'T BLAME OTHERS FOR YOUR MISTAKES!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hasta:
Andre, you are too ignorant. How do I reply to "Ok, hasta.
Whatever you say, son.
Now go back to bed."

---

Well, you could reply: "Yes daddy. I'm going to bed now with my tedy bear. Thanks!"

Just a suggestion.

Take care!

André, the too ignorant.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hasta:
[And, again, I never have been a huge fan, and I'm sure back in the 70's and 80's he was brilliant. Lately, though, it's just bomb after bomb. I know "box office means nothing", but "good films" do, and Goldsmith lacks them. Granted it's probably never his fault, but something is definately wrong with the films he scores lately.
[/B]

---

Even in his prime years of the 60's and 70's the movies he scored were no major box office. Papillon maybe, (although, it's box office is nothing by today's bloated standards) but most were merely Ok B.Owise. You can't base your position on that alone.

Box office is the last thing a composer has any control over. It's ironic that Goldsmith took on The Mummy and turned out regretting it due to the tortuous lack of inspiration he found in the film. But what do ya know! That was one of his biggest Box Office projects ever.

In the end your point, Hasta, means very little from a craft or artistic perspective. So Goldsmith's day is over because he scores garbage films. Well, he works in the Hollywood system and garbage is what Hollywood specializes in. Some of it makes a lot of money and some of it doesn't.

OK, hasta! Remind me not to read anymore of your posts if you are going to waste our time by filling them up with a bunch of words you don't mean. Some of us are busy!

Thanks,

PeterK

quote:

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Originally posted by Hasta:
I'm sure he won't stop scoring films till the day he dies (probably soon). [/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by PeterK:
Hasta: "I do not actually mean it, even though I wrote it."

OK, hasta! Remind me not to read anymore of your posts if you are going to waste our time by filling them up with a bunch of words you don't mean. Some of us are busy!

Thanks,

PeterK

NP - ... very VERY annoying jackhammer down the street.... ARGH?

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You tell him PeterK!!!!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by HAL 2000:

Hasta, that's scary. I know he's no spring chicken but that just sounded... well, I dunno.

---

Ehmm...would cruel and meanspirited due?

NP: Alex North THE MISFITS (Ryko)

quote:

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Originally posted by Patrick:
Hasta just types--like a machine gun, makes silly statments which sound like they've been co-authored by a garden shrub.

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LOL! Two hillarious lines in as many days. I've gotta start writing these down!
(The last one was K. Macdonald's reference to "Ford Alligator Thaxton" over at Filmtracks. I couldn't stop laughing when I read that.)

NP: Thin Red Line, Zimmer

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cole:
ok ok guys...he is entitled to say what he wants. there r others around here who misrepresent facts and but since their opinion is more poplular they get away with it. he does have somewhat of a point. goldsmith does not seem to pick the best films. like it or not the composer does have some say....williams scores either box office hits or well made drama films these days. even horner does well on scoring hits these days. i do wish jerry would raise the bar a little personally.

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Hey Cole,

where you serious here or just playin' around? With you it is hard to tell these days.

I am sorry you are upset I participated in this thread. I came in, made a few points, found out that hasta's post was basically a joke, and left. I am not bothered anymore by it. Hopefully others have done the same.

Frankly, I don't think there is anything wrong with me, or us. These are just reactions, hopefully honest ones!

A successful forum is made up of contributors - if someone is disgusted with this place, it certainly won't get any better when that one person leaves, because that one person is the one that SHOULD have started a discussion to make things better! It seems like it's always easy to point out what's wrong with the place, rather than contributing to making it more successful.

Friday morning thoughts are over. Thanks for reading. Shall we get back on topic, or let this thread die?

PeterK

We are gathered here to day to say goodbye to our friend.
Jerry Goldsmith, his day is donelived a short life when compared to the average life span of a thread in these corners of the world. It provided us with compassion and the knowledge that even different thinking minds can come together in unison and piece. Sure, it aroused the emotions of the few and drew the responses of many, yet the underlyning message it provided for all of us here, is that life is just too short to let it go by like the evermoving clouds of yesterday.

So, let us bow our head humbly and hope THAT THIS MISERABLE BUM NEVER RETURNS!!!!!!

Let it die.

Scotty

quote:

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Originally posted by odinatheforestcat:
Leave the guy alone... jeez, when you die, that's the first thing I'll say to you, "Your day is done."

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Well, this thread did happen to be written about four years before Goldsmith passed away.