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VARESE's Robert Townson new letter (8/12/00) on "30 Minute" CD's... (Page 2)
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Topic: VARESE's Robert Townson new letter (8/12/00) on "30 Minute" CD's...

Nicolai P. Zwar

Oscar® Winner

HOLLOW MAN was recorded in Europe, so a lengthier CD release was not such a big problem. Varese released also a great deal of lengthier CDs in 1999 and 1998.
American recorded film scores are simply too expensive for expansive releases, unless they are from big time movies attracting a wider crowd.
Frankly, what other labels are you refering to? Where are the "other labels" that are releasing those full lenght scores? I don't see 'em.
There are some film score labels I value highly, but I don't see one that's doing anything better than Varese. Intrada for example releases only very few new "original motion picture soundtrack" recordings, FSM releases full length but older scores, same with Rhino and Rhyko, Marco Polo specializes in re-recordings. Varese Sarabande does all of these things as well. The biggest heap of Varese releases would not be released at all if it weren't for Varese Sarabande, because no other label would touch them.
posted 08-15-2000 02:41 AM PT (US) 
PeterK

FishChip

I would have to suggest a few labels that have released 45+ minute scores from AFM sessions in Hollywood: RCA Victor, Hollywood Records, Sony Classical, Decca Records. Just a few!PeterK
NP - "El Pueblo del Sol" by Holdridge
posted 08-15-2000 07:50 AM PT (US) 
Nicolai P. Zwar

Oscar® Winner

That's true, but as I said, labels like Sony and Decca release film score soundtracks only when there is a chance that they will be huge sellers. Sony for example scored big time with TITANIC, so they release the follow up "big time" James Horner scores, movies like THE MASK OF ZORRO, or THE PERFECT STORM; they may well sell thousands of copies because those movies will attract a lot of "souvenir" buyers. They often include a pop song as well to give the release a bigger mainstream appeal. Also, some scores are recorded with a fairly small ensemble, so re-use fees are less of an issue. A score like the Decca released THE GAME (which I assume was recorded in the US) was performed with just a handful of musicians. Varese Sarabande is putting out releases that labels like Decca, Sony or RCA are not the least bit interested in. Of course, Varese is not the only company out there releasing soundtracks, but there would be a whole lot less if it weren't for them.
posted 08-15-2000 09:33 AM PT (US) 
TimT

Oscar® Winner

So how do these promos work? Ones such as Intrada and SuperTracks. Is this method easier?
What if all scores were released this way?
NP- Under Siege II
ark Territory (Complete)
Basil Poledourisposted 08-15-2000 09:39 AM PT (US) 
SBD
Oscar® Winner

Here's my theory about union-recorded scores:The reason that Varese releases are 30 minutes is that the label releases so many scores. Look at a label like RCA Victor or Intrada. The reason their score albums are longer: They release about a dozen scores between them each year, compared to the roughly 35-50 we see from Varese. Maybe we should cut Varese a break about their album lengths. It's pretty damn lucky that some of these scores get released at all.
posted 08-15-2000 10:16 AM PT (US) 
PeterK

FishChip

Tim, I think the average movie music fan would fall off the face of the earth if all soundtracks were released a la SuperTracks.The bottom line: music is already too expensive. If every soundtrack was only available at three stores and for a $20 minimum, I have a feeling most people will find better things to do. Most people, not all of them.
Zwar, I might want to differ with the suggestion that those labels are only releasing score albums that have the potential to sell big.
Decca has only been back in the fray for a year now, releasing scores like Agnes Brown, Playing by Heart, The Skulls and Snow Falling on Cedars - none of these are potential flying-off-the-rack scores as is their popular Gladiator album.
Sony Classical, it seems, has been all over the place in their selection of soundtrack releases. Perhaps because of the money they've made off of Titanic, they are willing to venture out a little more and release things like Titus, Random Hearts, The Governess and the like.
Of course, no label has released as much as Varese in this realm - there isn't a company out there you can compare Varese with!
PeterK
NP - "The Twilight Zone" by Herrmann (Varese re-recordings)
posted 08-15-2000 10:20 AM PT (US) 
Swashbuckler

Oscar® Winner

...not to mention the fact that Sony, Decca and whatnot have huge conglomerates backing them, while Varese does not.NP - VideoDrome by Howard Shore (Varese re-issue)
posted 08-15-2000 12:32 PM PT (US) 
Lorien
Oscar® Winner

Mr. Zwar, you missed the point. I brought up Hollow Man to point out that its not being 30 minutes worked. Maybe it's not complete, I don't know. But you see it's long enough that I don't care as much as I would if it wasn't so long. Message received. Varese is trying. Hats off to them.I don't care if it was recorded in Europe. That's not the point. It wasn't Mr. Townson's, and it wasn't mine. That he has begun doing the right thing was - his point and mine.
As to other labels, remember, I brought them up because of the comparison they gave to Varese that developed Varese's Scarlet Reputation. Are examples necessary? Let's use Goldsmith then, since he's so popular and prolific enough:
55 -13th Warrior (V)
35 - Haunting (V)
57 - Mummy (Decca)
30 - U.S.Marshals (V)
45 - ST:Insurrection (GNP)
31 - Small Soldiers (V)
51 - Mulan (Dis)
32 - Deep Rising (Hollywood)
30 - L.A.Confidential (V)
38 - Edge (Rca)
35 - Air Force One (V)
29 - Fierce Creatures (V)
45 - ST:First Contact (GNP)
53 - Ghost & the Darkness (Hollywood)
30 - Chain Reaction (V)
30 - Executive Decision (V)
30 - City hall (V)
35 - Powder (Hollywood)
40 - First Knight (Epic)
33 - Congo (Epic)
34 - Angie (V)
39 - River Wild (RCA)
46 - Shadow (Arista)
39 - Bad Girls (Fox)There's 99-94, and a general trend is visible.
Mr. Townson's letter was not about "to do 30 or not to do 30". It was about Varese's image or perception. My response boils down to this:
1 - Varese is finally doing the right thing
2 - Varese should do what it can to make sure people know and notice that
3 - Varese should then wait patiently for its image to change.posted 08-15-2000 01:12 PM PT (US) 
Lorien
Oscar® Winner

Sorry, the message got reformatted, and it's quite hard to see the differences I was pointing out. On average, for the above, Varese CDs came to 34 minutes, and non-varese came to 43 minutes.The POINT? That their 30 minute reputation was long earned. It'll take a while to lose it. They're doing the right thing, but the attitude can just go.
posted 08-15-2000 01:23 PM PT (US) 
PeterK

FishChip

Swashbuckler, indeed. A sobering point you make.PeterK
NP - "Twilight Zone" (Herrmann re-recording)
posted 08-15-2000 01:41 PM PT (US) 
Jack

Oscar® Winner

Did my own little Varese fundraiser today picking up Dragonheart:A New Beginning, Marnie, and Kimberly.It's great they are doing some longer cds (Small Soldiers was a Big Disappointment because of it's length), but unless you bring a calculator to the store you won't know it until after you buy.
So, my suggestion is to put the total time on the cd. And for the 60+ minute scores put a sticker on it promoting it.
posted 08-15-2000 03:19 PM PT (US) 
TimT

Oscar® Winner

...So I assume you already have On the Beach?
posted 08-15-2000 05:01 PM PT (US) 
Jack

Oscar® Winner

Yup. I'm one of the Beach 137.Good score. Lousy film. Why remake a classic. Assante was miscast.
posted 08-15-2000 07:13 PM PT (US) 
jonathan_little
Oscar® Winner

I wonder how many copies of the Jaws re-recording they've sold.
posted 08-15-2000 07:24 PM PT (US) 
Kevin
Oscar® Winner

Probably none, since they haven't released it yet (and who knows if they will).Kevin
posted 08-15-2000 08:35 PM PT (US) 
Eric Paddon

Oscar® Winner

The release date is 9/12 and I intend to buy a copy because just as I enjoy listening to different orchestras and conductors on my favorite works of classical music, so too do I enjoy a different orchestra's take on favorite film music of mine, so long as it's being performed with the same orchestrations and in the same key as the original. I personally have little regard for those who think the original tracks are the only version that can be enjoyed of a good score.
posted 08-15-2000 10:51 PM PT (US) 
PeterK

FishChip

Mr. Eric has a very good point. We better matchure up and git used to it, because re-recordings of classic scores aren't going to disappear anytime soon.I just wish Silva would stop recycling the same old ones!!
PeterK
NP - "Bless This Child" by Young
posted 08-15-2000 10:56 PM PT (US) 
Eric Paddon

Oscar® Winner

I do concur that a single rerecording recycled ad nauseum in compilation albums is indeed a disgrace.
posted 08-15-2000 11:29 PM PT (US) 
Swashbuckler

Oscar® Winner

I wish to bring up that while many scores released by Varese are harmfully trunucated at 30 minutes, some of them aren't.The CD of Dead Again has the complete score (there are two cues in the film that aren't on the album, one is an edit of the main title, the other is the end of "Death of a Mad Son" without the choir mixed in). It just comes to about 30 minutes. I don't think there was much more than 30 minutes of score in L.A. Confidential, either.
By the way, the major labels have pulled the 30 minutes thing from time to time as well. The Hunt for Red October is a prime example of this (probably because the presence of a large chorus caused the re-use fees to skyrocket to a level where even MCA said, "Whoa!").
I'll agree that Silva's recycling tracks on different albums is annoying, but on the other hand most of the albums have a couple of interesting things that make it worth a little skipping here and there. I absolutely love the suite from The Duellists.
posted 08-16-2000 05:31 AM PT (US) 
Nicolai P. Zwar

Oscar® Winner

I enjoy very much to hear different versions of the same score, provided they are done well and the score is worth listening to to begin with. If Varese releases their JAWS re-recording, I'll buy it for sure.NP: Max Steiner KING KONG
Moscow Symphony Orchestra/Stromberg
Marco Polo(A re-recording surpassing the original soundtrack recording in several ways, I might add.)
posted 08-16-2000 12:11 PM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

Swash,
I always loved the "non-choir" version of "Death Of A Mad Son".
LA Confidential had about 45-50 minutes written for it. The album really doesn't do it justice (as usual), as it quite simply mixes up cues that don't really match together (see also The Phantom Menace, if you care). Seems as though Goldsmith picks the most unoriginal aspects of his scores and throws THAT on the CD, leaving off things he's never done before (or hasn't done often).Maybe it's me.
Shaun
posted 08-16-2000 12:38 PM PT (US) 
Nicolai P. Zwar

Oscar® Winner

I beg to differ, Shaun, about the cues of L.A. CONFIDENTIAL not fitting well together. The opening of the Varese CD is a stunningly good cue combination.
posted 08-16-2000 01:08 PM PT (US) 
Vladimir
Oscar® Winner

I think by now everyone has a different opinion about Varese Sarabande and the length of there soundtracks.Jeron sent me the letter in my e mail I read it last night finaly and well all I can say is finaly all my questions about this topic have been answered thanks to the letter.There was some very good information in the letter and I found it interesting about Jerry Goldsmith wanting to realese his russian choral piece to Air Force one but it wasn't because the choral part was too big and to much $$$ I think what it comes down to is infact the $$ its to bad.I would have to say I am happy to know that Varese is at least trying there hardest to make every cd the best it possibly can.Before I used to question if they in fact tryed to make it the best possible release.But i think now after reading they infact are trying 100%Matt
posted 08-16-2000 01:14 PM PT (US) 
Lorien
Oscar® Winner

Swashbuckler,Thanks for the info on the short DEAD AGAIN score that's complete. Sharing that kind of information can only help things. As to L.A.Confidential though, I think even Shaun's estimate is conservative. I think it was closer to (but still just under) an hour of music.
Shaun,
You're right about the re-ordering of music on CDs. It would generally be better if people left the music in film order, providing a more coherent listening experience. As to Mr. Goldsmith's cue selections, I have a pro and a con. I think that on many of his scores particularly, when cues are missing, often they're the only ones of their kind (say, the Huns Attack from Mulan). So you're right, I guess.
But - do you remember how good Bloody Christmas sounded live? I mean, the CD literally does not do this piece of music justice. Man, those drums! Perhaps Mr. Goldsmith selects cues by how they sound to his ears as he conducts them, not taking note of how some bits may lose a little zing if you're not standing in the middle of the orchestra.
Just a thought in his defense.
posted 08-17-2000 02:50 AM PT (US) 
Swashbuckler

Oscar® Winner

Hmmm... I may have been wrong about L.A. Confidential; I have the film on DVD with the isolated score track, so I only heard the album a couple of times (I don't own it). I heard the album after seeing the film for the first time and thought it had most of the score on it. I may have been mistaken; I haven't heard the album in a long time.
posted 08-17-2000 09:26 AM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
