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      Movie Soundtracks
      reRECORDING - Last of the Mohicans..... Why???

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    Topic:   reRECORDING - Last of the Mohicans..... Why???

     Jeron
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    Just a few things: It's Varese, it's a re-recording, and the original soundtrack is still readily available. What's the point in re-recording this one????

    ---------------------------------

    Trevor Jones, Randy Edelman:
    THE LAST OF THE MOHICANS
    Original Motion Picture Score

    Royal Scottish National Orchestra
    Conducted by Joel McNeely

    "Rousing, kinetic update of the James Fenimore Cooper classic, replete with 1990s sensibilities, potent depiction of violence, and a charismatic central performance by Day-Lewis as Hawkeye. Wavers between sweep of historical fiction and smaller canvas of its love story, but never fails to entertain. Oscar winner for Best Sound. Evocative score by Trevor Jones and Randy Edelman." - Leonard Maltin

    The film and the score are among the most popular of the last twenty years. The original soundtrack has sold nearly 2 million copies and remains a bestseller!! To celebrate a new director's cut special edition of the film on DVD comes this special edition of its equally famous and much loved score. CD features 20-bit digital sound, cues never before available and a sterling performance by the award-winning Royal Scottish National Orchestra. To top it all off we present this classic score for the first time at a value-price. It's lush and romantic. It's sweeping and exotic. It's a much-loved contemporary film music classic!

    Original Cover Painting by Matthew Joseph Peak

    Catalog #: 302 066 161 2
    Release date: 9/26/00

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    posted 08-07-2000 07:24 AM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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     FishChip
     

    The prudent thing to do would be to ask Varese! No sense in making up reasons as to why or why not they would do this, but I'll take a shot at it anyway:

    Varese re-recorded Out of Africa, a score that is still in print on the MCA label. Like Mohicans, a very successful score album.

    Why did they do it? It doesn't really matter, because now Varese is up to it again. Apparently, their Out of Africa re-recording sold enough to make it worthwhile... again!

    PeterK

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    posted 08-07-2000 08:35 AM PT (US)     

     TimT
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    How big was the orchestra used for LOTM?
    One of my biggest complaints is that it sounded very small, like about 20-30 players and the rest is synth.

    Hopefully with the rerecording it will sound bigger. And will it include the song at the end?

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    posted 08-07-2000 08:41 AM PT (US)     

     Lancelot
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    Why not?

    Although I feel that re-recording often lose the sense of timing (e.g., "March of the Ewoks" as heard in the film, and "March of the Ewoks" concert suite....it's just off by *that* much) I don't quite see the harm in doing a re-recording--particularly when "Last of the Mohicans" is a hit among music buyers who are not soundtrack fans. It's a quality re-interpretation.

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    posted 08-07-2000 08:42 AM PT (US)     

     Jeron
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    True, very true. I just consider this one to still be fairly recent... most re-recordings being done are for older films. I'll probably pick this one up, just for the variation - but I still think it's funny! And Sir Lancelot, I couldn't agree w/ you more.

    Jeron

    [This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 07 August 2000).]

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    posted 08-07-2000 03:17 PM PT (US)     

     Cole
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    maybe there r gonna re-orchestrate the edelman parts =P

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    posted 08-07-2000 06:53 PM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I wish they'd re-record The Wind and the Lion. That score deserves a better performance and recording.

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    posted 08-07-2000 09:41 PM PT (US)     

     Shaun Rutherford
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    Oh, Jonathan! Just thinking about how badly the RSNO would butcher the horns in "Raisuli Attacks" makes me want to poke my eyes out.

    Shaun

    [This message has been edited by Shaun Rutherford (edited 07 August 2000).]

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    posted 08-07-2000 09:49 PM PT (US)     

     Mark Olivarez
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    I beleive their reason for re-recording these scores (Somewhere in Time, Last of the Mohicans) is to make money so they can re-coup what they've lost on other released scores and so they can afford to stay in business. These will sell so why not make money when you can?

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    posted 08-08-2000 09:03 PM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I can't imagine a superior recording of THE WIND AND THE LION than the one we have already. I might BUY one, especially if conducted by Goldsmith, but he got it right the first time.

    My first thought on seeing this topic was "LAST OF THE MOHICANS? what a waste of money!" But then again, maybe it's not. Robert Townson has been running Varese for long enough to understand what sells and what doesn't, although he's hit a few bloopers, as anyone in his position inevitably would. If he thinks this will sell, well then, it's his cash to make back or to lose. Sure there's lots of things I'd rather have, and I won't be laying out the green for this one (the original is just fine by me); but if this sells well, and means Varese can afford more stuff like the Herrmann rerecordings, etc., then, well, bring em on!

    Nobody's ever talked much on this Board or any other about how MANY soundtrack rerecordings there are on the market. I don't mean the quality ones, I mean those on-the-fly Canadian or Bulgarian or Whereverian rerecordings that are done outside the unions, and always consist of the same STAR WARS, GONE WITH THE WIND, etc. etc. nonsense. For all the faults of the Silva Screen collections, at least they've tried to do some offbeat stuff. These other companies ... well, I'm sure all of us have fallen victim to one or another of these "compilations" at one time or another.

    NP: (coincidentally, I PROMISE!) the superior Varese disaster movie compilation (this section is John Williams' TOWERING INFERNO)

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    posted 08-08-2000 09:22 PM PT (US)     

     Ford A. Thaxton
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    Shaun,

    I'd suggest you might not be so quick to assume anything.

    The soundtrack recording to THE WIND AND THE LION was recorded by the Graunke Symphony Orchestra in Munich in 1975.

    By all accounts Goldsmith had a hell of time getting that performance out of the orchestra (as well as making Director John Millus happy as well).

    IMHO, the brass section of the RSNO in 2000 by on the recordings I've heard to date are far stronger the the Graunke Symphony of 1975.

    Also, The Seattle Symphony Orchestra already did a great recording of "Raisuli Attacks" on the VARESE album "Blood and Thunder".

    Have you ever heard it?


    Regards


    Ford A. Thaxton

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    posted 08-08-2000 10:08 PM PT (US)     

     Shaun Rutherford
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    I haven't heard the Seattle Symphony's version. I can't imagine it duplicating the seemingly endless horn run! I will check it out! Cliff Eidelman. What happened to him?

    Shaun

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    posted 08-09-2000 12:15 AM PT (US)     

     AaronR1074
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    Actualy Jeron,
    Circuit City pulled both Last of the Mohicans AND Cocoon from their shelves the minute we had word that they were going OOP. So while it may be available in some stores...the one right next door won't have it. Give them about 2 more years before they are only available as boots or $25+ imports.

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    posted 08-09-2000 07:12 AM PT (US)     

     rfeigels
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    What's particularly amusing is that Trevor Jones (who started his own label with CLEOPATRA)was interested in releasing an expanded version of the original soundtrack. Not sure if that will happen...but that means Varese has had to deal with this situation several times: SUPERMAN, JAWS...

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    posted 08-09-2000 08:40 AM PT (US)     

     John Dunham
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    What I would like to know is, how much more music is Varese going to put on this re-recording? The original disc is already about an hour-- will this be a 2CD version, like Superman?

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    posted 08-09-2000 11:39 AM PT (US)     

     SBD
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    I'm a supporter of Varese, but I think they've gone too far this time. Re-recording a score that is not only very much in print, but successful and fine the way it is? They could use this money to put out 32-35 minute albums. We (meaning I) need score releases of THE ADVENTURES OF ROCKY & BULLWINKLE and SCARY MOVIE.

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    posted 08-11-2000 07:04 AM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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     FishChip
     

    Looks like a "re-recorded" score and that's it. Nothing expanded about it at all, in fact there are only three Edelman cues on it. Ok, there are a few unreleased Trevor Jones tracks on it, but it is by no means an "expanded" release. Still, I am looking forward to it, even though I am completely happy with the original album.

    This is being released by Varese at the same time the director's cut DVD is being released next month. Good move on Varese's part, unless there is a fully expanded, isolated score on the DVD!

    http://www.moviemusic.com/title.asp?id=lastofthemohicans-varese

    PeterK

    NP - "Sunshine" by Jarre

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    posted 08-17-2000 03:50 PM PT (US)     

     John Dunham
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    quote:
    Originally posted by PeterK:
    Looks like a "re-recorded" score and that's it. Nothing expanded about it at all, in fact there are only three Edelman cues on it. Ok, there are a few unreleased Trevor Jones tracks on it, but it is by no means an "expanded" release. Still, I am looking forward to it, even though I am completely happy with the original album.
    PeterK

    Whoa, whoa, hold on a second. Varese is re-recording a score with LESS music than was on the original?? Huh?

    Acording to your track listing the total time is 15 minutes LESS than was on the original CD, and they left off "Canoes" and most of Edelman's stuff!

    And, they seem to have added the following tracks:
    3. Bridge At Lacrosse - Randy Edelman
    4. Garden Scene - Randy Edelman
    5. Ambush - Trevor Jones
    12. Ascent/Pursuit - Trevor Jones

    I have no problem with additional music, but not at the expense of music we've already got!

    NP: Kimberly, Basil Poledouris

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    posted 08-17-2000 04:28 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    I'm not opposed to the idea of re-recording the Mohicans score. It's a classic score.

    and like Peter said they re-recorded Out of Africa AND Somewhere in Time (which I assume the OST is still in print, I see it everywhere). The RSNO/ Debney performance of the Somewhere in Time score is very much worth the money as it features the complete score; also a decent rendition of the Rachmaninoff melody.

    I'm all for it, especialyl if they elect to include all of Jones' stuff; I could live without the Edelman.

    Also, if anyone's interested, my local Best Buy has one billion (yes, I counted them) copies of the Mohicans OST-CD.

    NP -- Three Kings DVD

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    posted 08-17-2000 07:52 PM PT (US)     

     Shaun Rutherford
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    Hey PeterK,
    The Last Of The Mohicans "director's cut" is already on DVD. Came out in January. Not a damn thing on there, just the "director's expanded edition" (which actually cuts out footage). So, once again, Varese is quite a bit late for the bandwagon.

    This is what bothers me. Varese announces the Jaws rerecording. We all say, "Gee, this is great, but we'd prefer the original recording." Then Decca announces their version MONTHS later. Which is out first? The Decca. Why? That's just it...why? Why did EMI announce the reissues of the Bond series? Why do they bother telling everybody and their grandmother (mine is sick of the calls) that a CD is coming out, then when we ask when it IS coming out, we get an answer like, "Don't hold your breath." Is it just me?

    Disgruntled (and not in California),
    Shaun

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    posted 08-17-2000 09:02 PM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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     FishChip
     

    D'oh, woops. I guess I was misinformed this time around regarding when the director's cut DVD was released. Ah well.

    Why? Shaun? Why? Beats me! Perhaps some big wig label dudes pushin' and shovin' each other in bullying matches. :::FWAP::: "Take that, world, a new JAWS recording!!" ::::THUD:::: "Take that Varese, the ORIGINAL tracks" ::::POW:::: "Come on Decca, that's not cool!" ::::SLAM:::: "Stay down Varese, no rights to release re-recording until our tracks hit the street!" :::::BANG::::: "Come on Decca, that's not cool!" :::: DUNK :::: "Sorry splotty!!!"

    Eh, if you hear any other answer to your "why" question, I'd like to hear it...

    PeterK


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    posted 08-17-2000 10:18 PM PT (US)     

     Shaun Rutherford
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    Hey PeterK,
    I can't tell if you're pokin' fun at me or not, but that's hilarious, man. I'm going to write "LOL" now. LOL.

    Shaun

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    posted 08-17-2000 10:32 PM PT (US)     

     Swashbuckler
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    Labels that are cool with announcements:
    Intrada, Crescendo, Marco Polo, even Silva Screen, but especially FSM.
    You don't find out about them until they're almost ready to come out.

    Labels that aren't cool with announcements:
    Sony (that one delay tarnished their good name forever, and it isn't their fault), Varese (some stuff takes a really long time to come out, and some announced titles, such as Spartacus, seem like they're never going to see the light of day), Polygram (whoops, and whats up with that whole Blade Runner thing?) and, of course, EMI (if they never said anything, nobody would be annoyed now).

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    posted 08-18-2000 07:45 AM PT (US)     

     SBD
     Oscar® Winner
     

    Here's an idea: Varese re-records YOUNG SHERLOCK HOLMES. It could be done by the RSNO if the original soundtrack (performed by the Sinfonia of London) is, for whatever reason, unavailable. McNeely or Debney could pull it off, though I'd prefer Broughton conduct; I mean, it's not like he's doing anything now (lamentably). And MCA (i.e. Varese) owns the rights. Or, if the rights have lapsed over time, Intrada (Broughton's seeming label of choice) could release it; or Prometheus. SOMEBODY SHOULD!

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    posted 08-18-2000 11:28 AM PT (US)     

     Cole
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    amen SBD

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    posted 08-19-2000 01:53 AM PT (US)     

     Ford A. Thaxton
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    Why is VARESE re-recording this score over some of the others mentioned here?

    It will sell alot of copies.

    The soundtrack has sold tens of thousands of units world-wide and has a borad appeal well beyond collectors. if the VARESE CD sells just 15% of what the soundtrack has, it could become their most successful and profitable re-recording to date.

    it's a wise business move on their part.

    Regards


    Ford A. Thaxton


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    posted 08-19-2000 08:30 AM PT (US)     

     Shaun Rutherford
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    Well, to be perfectly honest, if anyone comes up to the counter with a rerecorded Mohicans, I will gladly show them the readily available (though apparently out of print, there are thousands of copies coming in and out of our store) original. After all, unless they're completists (like us), they'll be searching for the music they heard in the film.

    Shaun

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    posted 08-19-2000 11:45 AM PT (US)     

     Swashbuckler
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    Well, Shaun, what they're hoping for are people who don't know the difference.

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    posted 08-19-2000 12:34 PM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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     FishChip
     

    And one way to do that, which is the biggest, smartest business move that has yet to be mentioned, is the low pricetag it will have. The original Mohicans cannot be sold for less than $16 bucks, even at online stores, so this Varese's real winning card. When faced with such a price difference, the non-collector will opt for the cheaper disc, afer all, music simply costs too much.

    PeterK

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    posted 08-19-2000 12:49 PM PT (US)     

     John Dunham
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    quote:
    Originally posted by PeterK:
    And one way to do that, which is the biggest, smartest business move that has yet to be mentioned, is the low pricetag it will have. The original Mohicans cannot be sold for less than $16 bucks, even at online stores, so this Varese's real winning card. When faced with such a price difference, the non-collector will opt for the cheaper disc, afer all, music simply costs too much.
    PeterK

    Got my original at Best Buy for $11.99. They have hundreds more, I think, all at that price.

    NP: Mask Of Zorro, Horner

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    posted 08-19-2000 02:33 PM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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     FishChip
     

    Really? Then the point I am trying to make is moot, and Varese has their work cut out for them. Most places I've seen Mohicans for sale, it certainly wasn't "on sale." The label's and distributor's costs stiff the retailer into offering it at around $16, unless the retailer is Best Buy, who takes a huge percentage loss on the CD because they've selected the item as a loss leader. It's only good for the consumer in the short term...

    PeterK

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    posted 08-19-2000 03:14 PM PT (US)     

     nightwing
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    So, I brought this back up to see what ya'll think. I just purchased this re-recording and am unimpressed. I love this score but do not have it on CD so I figured I'd give this a shot. It is no where near the original recordings, which is too bad because usually McNeely does a good job. Oh well, I guess I'll keep looking for the original.

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    posted 04-05-2003 03:46 PM PT (US)     

     Dinko
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    One rerecording which should never have happened: it's a failure on all counts.

    -McNeely lacks the energy and rythmic punch of the original. This rerecording is somewhat slack.

    -the orchestra does well, but sounds tiny. If the original soundtrack sounded like it had a few players and whole lot of synths, this one sounds like it had a few players and no synths.

    -as much as I like Jonathan Allen's recordings, this is a bad one: it sounds too distant and 'concerty', and I'm pretty sure his engineering has something to do with that tiny orchestral sound. Concert hall settings work for many Golden Age recordings which were composed in a deeply classical tradition, but Last of the Mohicans doesn't work (Telarc's Cincinatti recording doesn't do too well either because of the concert hall sound).

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    posted 04-05-2003 04:09 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    excellent on all counts.

    The music has come alive, and is fleshed out with a good orchestral arrangement of the synth schidt.


    People need to get over this need to have a re-recording sound EXACTLY like the original soundtrack recording.

    your first clue should be that it's a re-recording. A concert performance, for the most part. I find this to be an unusually lively McNeely recording.

    but that's me.

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    posted 04-05-2003 10:18 PM PT (US)     

     John Zimmer
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    I agree with JJH much better than the OST. All of it seems alive and full of spirit.

    Go RSNO!!

    Jz

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    posted 04-07-2003 05:13 AM PT (US)     

     Jeron
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    I since have bought the CD (have had it since it came out) and thoroughly enjoy it. Great re-recording.

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    posted 04-08-2003 12:29 AM PT (US)     
     

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