Horner uses the exact music over. Goldsmith does not. The only thing that comes close is his time ticking motif, which has appeared in many scores--but always as a supplement to something new (i.e. THE FINAL CONFLICT, BASIC INSTINCT, DENNIS THE MENACE). Nothing more to say.

(My *opinion* is that, in the film, the music has much more personality.)

Listen to Mozart sometime and you'll hear a vast variety of melody but basically the same chordal patterns and cadences, which makes his music very repetative(sp?). That's how trained musicians can hear a piece and correctly identify the composer because of the way it sounds and its construction. Don't confuse stylistic features with repetition.

I thought Hollow Man sounded like a lot of other Goldsmith scores I've heard, especially Basic Instinct and Total Recall.
Not awful, just not real original.

Rota used a snipet of music from another of his scores causing GODFATHER's disqualification; do the rules not apply to James Horner? He clearly used (at least) one motif that belonged to (at least) one other notoriously-copied score of his (HINT: It was WRATH OF KHAN).

This is not to say that Horner is not a good dramatist; he is. His emulation of Goldsmith's film scoring style is very appropriate. But compositional integrity he has not.

You said Goldsmith's works of last year were more original, and by judging from The Hollow Man, he is now on autopilot.

If we're judging his scores by the years they were composed in, what score do you have to compare The Hollow Man to to say that he is on autopilot this year of 2000?

The movie was about an invisible man who goes insane. In that aspect, I believe Goldsmith delivers. I don't think I need to explain why. Just look at most of the reviews posted on this very message board. I think they are appropriate and pretty much speak for me as well.

NP: Goldsmith's "Angie"

Bulldog,
I don't thinks Rota's score for The Godfather should have been disqualified and that opinion was sort of backed up when The Godfather Part II won best score.

About Horner, what can I say, I like the guy's music and find him original and affecting. But, hey, what do I know, I thought Bicentennial Man was one of the best scores of last year when everyone else hated it.

I haven't really discussed HM itself since my recent responses. But I think that it's clear that other scores influenced the HM sound. I also think that that's the way Paul wanted it.

Originality is not the top priority in a film score though, and even though I think HOLLOW MAN is rather unique (I wouldn't confuse it with another Goldsmith score the way that Williams' scores are confused with one another--it I hear one more person hum SUPERMAN and call it STAR WARS....), the most important thing a film composer has to do is tell a film's story to an audience, something that Goldsmith and Horner both do rather well...even if I think the former does it better and with more integrity than the latter.

What a lame excuse for entertainment. After the movie I went to eat and while I was waiting for my food to arrive I ACTUALLY HAD TO THINK HARD TO TRY AND REMEMBER WHAT MOVIE I'D JUST SEEN, NOT FIFTEEN MINUTES LATER!!!!

This film would've been more effective (I guess) TEN years ago. MAYBE. Frankly I think the film stunk. NOT as badly as Starship Troopers or Total Recall or Basic Instinct or....
What has happened to Verhoeven? Oh wait, I remember...success.
The screenwriter needs to be shot. The dialogue was some of the worst in recent memory. How much screentime did that fourth grade joke about Superman screwing WonderWoman take up? Casting needs to be shot. Casting Kevin Bacon as this Invisible Man was a huge mistake. Almost as bad as thinking Gary Sinise could carry Mission to Mars (an even worse film). THIS invisible man NEEDED to be one that had a presence SEEN OR UNSEEN. Who cares about little old Kevin Bacon?
But, there were people laughing in the audience at the "quirky-they've-been-working-on-this-project-soooo-long-that-they-really-know-each-other-super-well" team of "scientists". Just another "film" that is made for the escapist "we-dont-want-to-THINK-audiences". WHERE WERE THE OLD SCIENTISTS? WHERE WERE THE UGLY SCIENTISTS? More to the point: WHY BOTHER TO SHOW "REALISTIC" SPECIAL EFFECTS AND NOT HAVE A REALISTIC STORY, NARRATIVE OR PAYOFF? DID THESE CHARACTERS LEARN ANYTHING? WASNT HG WELLS TRYING TO MAKE A POINT WITH HIS BOOK????????

The saddest thing is that Goldsmith actually had to sit and think about what music to put where? ACTUALLY the saddest thing is that Goldsmith bothered to score this thing at all. TO ME the score was ****-poor but then again look what he had to work with.

What a shame.

MATT your profile doesnt give much up, did u ever work at a restaurant called BIGA????

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Originally posted by HAL 2000:
For example, here the score has generally and enthusiastically been regarded as a triumph of whatever degree while at other places, such a FilmTrax, it has been seriously poo-pooed in the site's review database as well as among the message boarders there.

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...Incoming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by Jens Dietrich:
One of the many reasons why I left FilmTracks. Just wondering, how can someone whith no taste in music be the webmaster of a filmmusic site? I very much doubt that Clemmensen could accurately rate a score to save his tragically prolonged life.

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Originally posted by John Dunham:
Um.. Mortal kombat?

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MattStar:...the score gives me ammunition to combat all the Horner-bashers out there because Goldsmith simply recycled (not reused, there's a difference) alot of his older stuff for Verhoeven films.

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I really don't think that's necessary. I enjoy James Horner's music just as much as you do... but it's clear that Horner cuts and pastes passages from one score to the next. I don't mind it, as it works well and they are favorable variations/rehashes on his original takes. As for Goldsmith cutting and pasting? Nope. I don't buy it. I hear similarities - and possibly influences, but that's only expected when working with a director such as Paul Verhoeven. He picked Goldsmith for a reason, and I think the score Goldsmith composed presents that reason clearly, effectively, and validly.

Jeron

NP - Mulan (Academy Promo) *****/***** (I've been playing this one all day... developed an extreme thirst for it over the past couple days. Interesting...)

Hollow Man is slightly diminished by Andrew Marlowe, two clicks above a hack writer (I'm being non-arrogant today). OK, a Hollywood hack who probably studied classics in college to give him that metaphysical edge (sic).

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Originally posted by Jens Dietrich:
It got a FRISBEE rating... so what? 'King Solomon's Mines', an EXCELLENT score, got exactly the same rating by him. I mean.. is he really to be taken seriously when he considers 'Mortal Combat' and 'King Solomon's Mines' equals in ANY way? How, exactly, can his half-wit opinion about anything be taken seriously by anyone?

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