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Author	Topic: the worst Goldsmith score

shrubber Oscar® Winner	Mattstar's recent topic had me thinking. Of course this sort of list-compiling has been done before (no geekdom without it), but now that we're on about this, let's just cast our minds over this very up-and-down career (up in the seventies, down in the nineties) and consider: what has been the real low? My vote will probably cause howls of derision, but take a bow THE OMEN for being one of the most overvalued pieces of music ever written. Surely the Academy could have picked better examples from his output? Any takers?
posted 07-31-2000 03:55 PM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	Shrubber, are you insane? Scott
posted 07-31-2000 04:08 PM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	I personally think "The Omen" is a FINE score which was very deserving of the Oscar it received. I wouldn't say the nineties are Goldsmith's lows... that's like saying, "TNG, DS9, and/or VOY" are the lows of "Star Trek." Not true. They all have their special moments, just as "TOS" did. Incidentally, Goldsmith's theme for "Star Trek," "Life is a Dream," is one of Goldsmith's all-time highs (IMO, of course). Personally, there has not been a Goldsmith album I've encountered that I didn't like... I've heard his score for "Link" is somewhat undesirable, but then again, I've heard the opposite from others. Some consider "Hoosiers" to be a bad score due to the overwhelming usage of synths - I find it quite enjoyable, though wouldn't rank it over "Rudy" in the "great sports scores" category. Some consider "Deep Rising" to be a dull, uninspired work by the aging composer - myself and many others enjoy it simply BECAUSE it is the way it is. I wouldn't call it a "low." The same goes for countless others. If you really think about it, as always, it comes down to personal preference. Heck, I'm sure there are those out there who think Horner's score for "Unlawful Entry" is the greatest thing on the planet! Same goes for "The Running Man." Jeron NP - Logan's Run / Coma (coincidentally, two more of Goldsmith's all-time highs) ***/*** (and I will admit, he doesn't write 'em like he used to... but they don't make 'me like they used to, either!) [This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 31 July 2000).]
posted 07-31-2000 04:11 PM PT (US)

mlw Oscar® Winner	The Omen is one of the best because nothing had been done like that before, like when Tom Cruise yelled out "Big F'ing Erect ***, mom, **...PEEEEENNNIIISSS!!!" in Born on the 4th of July. worst JG scores? Po der congo the shadow IQ SPYS Breakout Players (uncentered, flailing away at nothing, so this is why he knocked that Korngoldy sound as too heavy and cluttered-- Supergirl was better) King Solomon's Mines (all burned-out, pile driving and angry, old material sloshed out, high on the spleen)
posted 07-31-2000 04:11 PM PT (US)

mlw Oscar® Winner	we can't write "*****" here?
posted 07-31-2000 04:12 PM PT (US)

shrubber Oscar® Winner	I have to go along on the Star Trek thing (I assume you mean the them for DS9 here and not the other bit), which was OK. Personally I don't mind his synthy scores; Hoosier is one of his best, same goes for Rambo II. I can't comment on Link (which very few people have heard anyway). Keep them coming!
posted 07-31-2000 04:35 PM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	Interestingly enough, I find "Congo", "The Shadow," "IQ," and "King Solomon's Mines" to be wonderful scores. Congo - has some pretty great cues. And how can you NOT like the Lebo-M stuff? It's Goldsmith gone Lion King! Better yet, he took this score, polished it up, mixed in some British and Irish influences, and voila, gave us "The Ghost and the Darkness," another wonderful score. The Shadow - Goldsmith gone Batman! Shaun would agree with me, this has some of the coolest usage of percussion since "The Wind and the Lion." We get a great theme, some awesome action music, and gosh, even a GREAT song by what's-her-face. Heck, we get TWO incredible versions of this masterful work (which as interesting as it may seem, sound exactly alike). IQ - A VERY charming score. It's too bad it didn't see a release. Using "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" as a motif was simply ingenious. Grrrr... thanks for reminding me about this! ISO! ISO! Or... even better... Chapter III? King Solomon's Mines - Jerry takes "Ride of the Valkaries," combines it with an AWESOME, CLASSIC Goldsmithesque interpretation of Indiana Jones, and gives us a score that is quite memorable. This is one that echoes from my childhood. Particularly enjoyable if you like Goldsmith's bombast from Supergirl. Jeron [This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 31 July 2000).]
posted 07-31-2000 04:35 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	but we CAN write "PEEEEENNNIIISSS," apparently ... isn't it strange? SPY*S made my flesh crawl, at least the main title did (I haven't heard the whole thing, nor seen the movie). Consider, though, he probably had to write that inside a week's time, since the producers jettisoned the previous John Scott score (it played first in Europe, which kept that music), and probably wanted Goldsmith to do some kind of "funky" thing that they hoped would make the picture play better in America. I haven't thought much of most of Goldsmith's comedy scores, but as a wiser critic than me once wrote, "he has succeeded in all arenas other than, perhaps, the complicated field of comedy scoring." It's interesting that Goldsmith's music can be "funnier" in a movie that's not supposed to be funny -- he's a very witty fellow, as anyone who's attended his concerts can attest, but BEING funny and TRYING TO BE funny are completely opposite propositions. Mr. Ware, how could you not like KING SOLOMON'S MINES? The main motif is a bit too RAIDERish for comfort, but I think it's one of his busiest and most accessible scores. No real depth to it, but there wasn't in the movie, either! He gave more to that assignment than it deserved, I thought. Oh yes, THE OMEN is a masterpiece, and it's quite amazing that anything as good as it is actually won the Oscar. Although I do have one observation: Having listened to the complete score (thank you Brad), I hear that Goldsmith scored a lot of moments that do NOT have music in the final version. I haven't played these cues against the movie, but I'm interested that much of the effect of THE OMEN derives from its SILENCE -- it's far more effective NOT to hear music over the truck bearing down on David Warner. And I prefer the simple, perfect clarity of Lee Remick's horrified scream as she finally falls to her death, rather than Goldsmith's beautifully written, but redundant decrescendo. Or the shocking self-hanging of Holly Palance, rather than Goldsmith's flurry of notes that he first meant to accompany it. Sometimes less really is more. (Parenthetically, though, the music preceding Kathy's [Lee Remick's] final fall, as Mrs. Baylock emerges from the shadows, is my favorite moment in the whole score, even as brief as it is. Closely followed by the music for the drive to the church. Goldsmith left both these bits off the album. He drives me nuts that way, sometimes.)
posted 07-31-2000 04:44 PM PT (US)

mlw Oscar® Winner	well it's like this, I should be grateful and everything that the vintage churning syncopation rhythmic stuff was all there and acoustic even, but it's like if you're going to be THAT way about it, forget it!
posted 07-31-2000 04:53 PM PT (US)

JJH Oscar® Winner	Well, with what I have heard of Link, that's something I don't think I'll die if I can't have. sounds pretty lame. and Hoosiers. can't stand it. fine in the movie, but on CD, it's not really my bag, baby. NP -- Hollow Man, great album [This message has been edited by JJH (edited 31 July 2000).]
posted 07-31-2000 05:26 PM PT (US)

Jack Oscar® Winner	Any votes for Angie?
posted 07-31-2000 05:48 PM PT (US)

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	Make mine Rent A Cop,
posted 07-31-2000 06:16 PM PT (US)

Timmer Oscar® Winner	'YAWWWWWWWWNhh!!....No not this post!, just me, it's late an'I'm tired! So quickly...and I'm just talking about listening experience here, NOT whether they work or not in there respective films! Soooo.... HOOSIERS MALICE MR BASEBALL DEEP RISING FIERCE CREATURES A PATCH OF BLUE LILLIES IN THE FIELDS Don't get upset at me, it's only MY opinion! YAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWNNnnnnnnn! g'night timmer
posted 07-31-2000 06:18 PM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Oscar® Winner	The score for the TV film Do Not Fold, Staple or Mutilate is pretty bad. A lot of dumb noises thrown in with some tune in the background. Not his best. JW.
posted 07-31-2000 06:48 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Oscar® Winner	I can't comment because I do not own any bad scores by Jerry Goldsmith.
posted 07-31-2000 07:30 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Oscar® Winner	I've always wondered why people don't like King Solomon's Mines. One online "soundtrack review site," Filmtracks, has given it a "frisbee rating." Yes, the recording is lacking bass and yes, it was 'performed' by the Hungarian State Opera Orchestra. King Solomon's Mines is without question some of my favorite Goldsmith output from the 1980s.
posted 07-31-2000 07:54 PM PT (US)

Hard Target Oscar® Winner	Whoa!!Timmer you're something else. Malice, Hoosiers, A Patch of Blue bad scores? Holy *t you must tired of what I don't know. Those are among my favorite scores by Goldsmith. Hoosiers was definetly worthy of it's Oscar nomination in 1986 and people forget it's a preview of his brilliant score to Rudy. A Patch of Blue is classic Goldsmith, so can't say nothing there. Malice is really underrated. A haunting main theme and terrific action-suspense music. Can't definetly go wrong there. What's wrong with Deep Rising? I found to be a lotta of fun. To me personally it's the album that sucks because the best pieces which are really lengthy in the film are not on the album. A damn shame becuase it is a good score. Don't get me started on Link because this is Goldsmith's most experimental and exciting score. This score is so whacked out that you'd have to listen to it over and over to take it in. The score is brilliant performed by the National Philharmonic Orchestra augmented by drum machines mainly for the main character who happens to be a terrizoring circus chimp! Why Goldsmith scored this movie I have no idea, but it does have an up and coming Elisabeth Shue!! For 39 minutes, it's definetly worth checking out and boy will you be surprised. But for me the worst Goldsmith score is his Alien Nation rejected score. I can see why it was rejected. Very droning and it grows very tiring in the end. P.O. Malice (Jerry Goldsmith) /****
posted 07-31-2000 08:18 PM PT (US)

Shaun Rutherford Oscar® Winner	LOVE the percussion in The Shadow, but after I heard the theme for Prince Valiant (Waxman, as if you didn't know already), I became slightly bitter toward this score. We rarely speak anymore. Pity, as--like I said--the percussion is fantastic. My least favorite Goldsmith scores are: Studs Lonigan What is this---an orchestra? Lonely Are The Brave What's with these harmonicas? If he loves harmonicas so much, why doesn't he marry one (or move to Utah and marry a couple)? Freud Where's all the synth beats? I thought this guy was into sex and **. Where was Giorgio Moroder when THIS was made? Rio Conchos Frappin' harmonicas again! Seconds Hey, Jerry---here's an idea, WRITE A THEME! You know, Star Wars? Gladiator? The List Of Adrian Messenger Saxophones are for losers. Seven Days In May Drum, drum, drum. More like dum, dum, dum. The Prize Way to rip off A Summer Place, ass! In Harm's Way Makes even John Wayne look gay. The Satan Bug What Goldsmith must've contracted before writing this wretched piece of filth. A Patch Of Blue I bet Elmer Bernstein wanted to kick your ass after hearing this. No synths, either! Junk! Our Man Flint Ripped off Austin Powers. In Like Flint Ripped off Austin Powers AGAIN! What a freakin' hack! Hour Of The Gun I liked this movie better the FIRST time, when it was called Tombstone. And what's with the beef guy playing Wyatt Earp? Kurt Russell is the only actor who can play people who shoot other people but never get shot themselves. The Blue Max Guy from Breakfast At Tiffany's plays a German, with no recognizable accent. Music plays and plays and plays and goes nowhere. Would've made a great Harold Faltermeyer score. Planet Of The Apes If I wanted to hear weird noises, I'd hang out in a public bathroom. Thanks for giving the ending of the film away, poster! Patton Geez, WAS there music for this?!? Every time I turn it on, a bunch of guys with helmets looking through binoculars. No music. Jeez. Papillion What is this? Music from a French restaurant? I thought this was a prison break movie! Chinatown Again, where's the freakin' music? Every time I watch the movie, I have to "score" it myself, using Broken Arrow (the Duane Eddy stuff for every time Nicholson walks into a scene), the Magnum P.I. theme (for the scene that Higgins is in), and Gladiator (for the love scenes and the finale). The Wind And The Lion Sean Connery sucks hard, but Murphy Brown sucks even more. So, I'm not going to even listen to this trash! The Omen It's impossible to hear anything that's going on in this movie, because the 1000-piece chorus is yelling the whole way through. Alien Sounds like a cat being strangled, but a cat LIKING being strangled. THAT'S ugly. Star Trek: The Motion Picture Yeah, beam this ** up, Scotty. This score's about as original as Shatner's hair. Goldsmith's best scores are Angie, Deep Rising, The Mummy, Chain Reaction, and Powder. Everything else is a fart in the wind. Shaun NP---Giorgio Moroder, Scarface recording sessions (the original scoring of the chainsaw scene was 4 minutes of one note being pitch-bent; genius)
posted 07-31-2000 10:03 PM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	The only Goldsmith score that I claim to be bad is "WARLOCK." It's hard for me to say it, because, on its own, it CAN be a little fun for a strong Goldsmithite. The deciding factor for me was how it worked in the film, and this score didn't. The finale does show a little of Jerry's dramatic talents, but through the rest of the film, his synth experiment actually detracted from the mood. Potentially creepy scenes were ruined by cheesy electronic warbles. This is the one case in which I think the movie didn't benefit at all from his score. I think this to be Goldsmith's ONLY film-scoring failure. Every other film score he has done is perfect though. P.S. I also really enjoyed "DEEP RISING." Shaun, maybe a trip to a public restroom next to a busy kitchen of a restaurant WAS Jerry's inspiration for Planet of The Apes? NP: Goldsmith's "The Hollow Man"
posted 07-31-2000 10:32 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	After I stopped roaring at the "cat LIKING being strangled line" (hey, Rutherford, you've made ME p*ss MY pants twice in a day now!), I thought of all the other terrible, horrible things Goldsmith has done to audiences over the years: the preposterous pseudo-German BOYS FROM BRAZIL and BLUE MAX; the completely appalling pseudo-Herrmann crap in BASIC INSTINCT (and Herrmann was a NOTORIOUSLY dreadful composer in the first place -- did you ever suffer through PSYCHO? I believe he did the whole thing just with a string orchestra! That's not music! That's a gimmick!); and don't even get me started on RUDY, THE RUSSIA HOUSE or (shudder) the RAMBO trilogy. Especially the first one! Such noble tunes for a psychopath! What were they trying to do, make him LIKABLE? Composers don't know anything at all about movies, do they! That is why they don't sit at home and compose nothing! As it should be! John Cage had the right idea! I wish he had done more movies! That is my dream movie: a black-and-white version of BAYWATCH, as scored by John Cage! Of course, as you all know, I don't like music to begin with! (I may well have found a doctor who is willing to render me surgically deaf! Although he behaves as though I already am! Quacks, all of them, ALL of them! That endless prattle about "ethics" and laws" -- let me threaten their lives, and then we'll see about their "ethics" and "laws!" All I want is to be deaf! What do I need to do, buy another letter-opener and some laudanum?) NP: I'm not sure, I disabled the speakers some time ago, and only turn stuff on out of habit. signed, B.C. IV
posted 07-31-2000 10:32 PM PT (US)

joan hue Oscar® Winner	Is Shaun our NEXT Jim Carrey? Can't wait for someone to jump him because he takes him seriously. Favorite part for me was marrying a couple of harmonicas in Utah. LOL.
posted 07-31-2000 11:08 PM PT (US)

Cole Oscar® Winner	oh heavens those last feew posts are cracking me up. i wish i had something funnier to say...but alas....... the vanishing...by our man JG has to be my least favorite score by him....does anyone like this? i mean....jeron could have scored this movie better. np - psycho ummm...i mean: what lies beneath (excellent score by mr silvestri)
posted 08-01-2000 12:16 AM PT (US)

THE GREEK Oscar® Winner	Hey Shaun!!! Wy don´t you give it a try as a stand up commedian!!!This reply was one of the best and funniest i´ve ever read the last year. NOMINATION FOR THE BEST REPLY OF THE YEAR 2000!!! No offense of course!
posted 08-01-2000 02:35 AM PT (US)

Timmer Oscar® Winner	Hey!,As I said it's just my opinion Hard Target, but I gotta admit I do like LINK! NP : The Challenge - Aerosmith....unlike the rest of youz I know who does all these scores! OH YES!
posted 08-01-2000 04:36 AM PT (US)

Todd Reifinger Oscar® Winner	Shaun, I think you're the first person on this message board to call Jerry Goldsmith an ass. Well done, you scamp!
posted 08-01-2000 07:37 AM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	And Todd, I think you are the first person to call someone a scamp on this board. Well done, you duck. NP: Goldsmith's "The Hollow Man"
posted 08-01-2000 08:53 AM PT (US)

Shaun Rutherford Oscar® Winner	And Al, I think you're the first person to call attention to the fact that Todd called someone a scamp on this board. Good work, water-based mammal. Shaun
posted 08-01-2000 11:05 AM PT (US)

Bulldog Oscar® Winner	A bad--repeat PER SE BAD--Goldsmith score? I've heard almost all, and there's no such thing. A few average ones, sure, perhaps...just maybe.
posted 08-01-2000 11:20 AM PT (US)

Darth Fart Oscar® Winner	Poltergiest is a bit weak, but not horrid.
posted 08-02-2000 02:56 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	Some of the choices above are hilarious! There's no such thing as a "bad" Goldsmith score. But I can say LINK and ST:INSURRECTION are not among my favorites... Cheers!
posted 08-02-2000 05:40 AM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	...though I'd hardly mention Link and ST: Insurrection in the same sentence... geesh, we're like a bunch of grumpy old men, aren't we? Jeron
posted 08-02-2000 07:05 AM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	LINK won Goldsmith another of his perennial Saturn nominations (he has won the award only once, for GREMLINS). I can understand why people are nonplussed by the album, although I've always loved it. It is also, and this is critical, an impeccable FILM SCORE -- something less inventive might well have sunk the picture, I'm sure of it. I thought INSURRECTION the weakest of all the Trek films, and the weakest of Goldsmith's efforts for the franchise, but someone else mentioned an expanded boot disc of the score (quite craftily produced, but I'd be wiser not to say how), which sounds more interesting and various than one might imagine. I found U.S. MARSHALS and FIERCE CREATURES rather ordinary as well, but think CHAIN REACTION is underrated -- not a masterpiece, by any means, but I loved the particular orchestral colors. But God, that movie was rancid.
posted 08-02-2000 11:16 AM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	Hey, I'm trying to start a fight here! Doesn't anyone else hate Goldsmith's music as much as I do? NP: suite produced by Shaun Rutherford from -- oh, never mind, it undermines my whole point
posted 08-03-2000 12:27 AM PT (US)

shrubber Oscar® Winner	Hey Rockers, this topic wasn't intended to start a fight (just a good ol'-fashioned flame :-)). For the record, 99% of the pony-tailed one's output is great stuff. Only not The Omen.
posted 08-03-2000 04:31 AM PT (US)

shrubber Oscar® Winner	NP: Gormenghast (Richard Rodney Bennett, BBC TV score), which unfortunately goes under the "worthy but dull" file
posted 08-03-2000 04:37 AM PT (US)

mujerado Oscar® Nominee	[QUOTE] Our Man Flint Ripped off Austin Powers. In Like Flint Ripped off Austin Powers AGAIN! What a freakin' hack! What, twenty five years BEFORE Austin Powers?????????!!! Are you being facetious?
posted 08-04-2000 11:32 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	No, Shaun is right, it really happened that way. How do you think Mike Myers got the idea for the second AUSTIN POWERS movie in the first place? Actually, the second place. NP: X-MEN (Michael Kamen) (this rips off STAR WARS: EPISODE III! Buncha hacks.)
posted 08-04-2000 11:35 PM PT (US)

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