I believe the point of the knife fight scene was to point out a double tragedy:

1. that the Jewish-American soldier is dying solely because he is a Jew (remember the German lets Davies' character live on the staircase?)

2. that Davies' character could have done something to help out and refused because he suffered from cowardice of the highest order, and someone had to die on account of that. Only when the tables were turned afterwards did he kill the German (out of guilt I suspect).

to me, SPR simply points out the facts of the circumstances of that war (that's why you get to call a movie like this and The Patriot "historical fiction").
MANY Americans were killed on that beach. That's not saying anything about the Germans. It's a simple fact that American bombers missed their targets beforehand. It's a simple fact that 5,000 men were gunned down.
It's a simple fact that the world would be speaking German right now if it wasn't for the American Army in both World Wars.

I also don't like the opening and closing of SPR. too sappy, I think.

Everyone, if you get a chance, I HIGHLY suggest you watch a new movie called Nuremberg, and watch the 5-minute film they played in front of Goehring at the trials.
Shocking, to say the least. Personally, I have NEVER seen anything so ghastly in my life until then. you know, fake movie stuff like what you see in Se7en or Silence of the Lambs is one thing, but the sight of those REAL people, having suffered those REAL atrocities disturbed me.

from my experience and what I have learned, life is "black and white". There is "good and evil", either something is "right or wrong". You know that gray area everyone likes to talk about? It doesn't exist. It's a copout. It's the ever present
"well, I might not be a saint, but I am better than the other guy over there"

Let's face it, we are all failures (when it comes to doing good all the time) and are masters (at doing wrong).

Of course, I am mostly talking about myelf here.

In "Saving Private Ryan"--it ISN'T as easy as black and white. What happens in war is people get killed. And the people on one side are going to kill the people on the other side, and do their own best to stay alive. They're ALL human.

When the American soldiers shoot the surrending German soldier on the beach ("Look ma--I washed my hands"), where is the evil in that situation?

The knife fight. One soldier is going to walk away. They're not fighting because one is Jewish and the other is German...They're fighting because they're on opposite sides.

Why does the German soldier let Jeremy Davies live? Because he sees no threat from him? Because, like Tom Hanks, he'll fight if he needs to, but overall, he's tired of killing?

If there had been German soldiers who had let an American soldier go free, do you not think that the American would return to front lines to fight for his cause?

I also think that you need to go back and take another look at this film if you think it portrays Americans only in a good light. What about the scene on the beach when the Americans shoot the surrendering Germans? Hardly what I would call a glowing recommendation of American Ideals. For that matter, when Davies shoots the guy at the end, he was a prisoner. It is a violation of the rules of war. (Yes I know, Rules of War sounds stupid. Blame the League of Nations, not me)

In may view, this movie is not about good and evil, its not about the Holocaust, it is about what happens when we let go of all the rules. It is about the horror of methodical and industrialized warfare. It’s why we try not have full scale wars anymore. Too Damn Bloody.

I think Steven Spielberg was trying to make a picture that would show the horrors of war to a generation that hasn’t had a general war with massive causalities. He didn’t glorify it, he didn’t ennoble it, he showed it as muddy, bloody hell that could make anybody forget who they were in order to survive.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JJH:
Andre, why does it surprise you that the Germans are portrayed as evil (as you word it)? golly gee, it must have something to do with the methodical extermination of 6 million Jews and other minorities. a little thing called the Holocaust.

---

Yeah JJ. What else is news!!!
Like I said (did you read that?), is very simplistic and dull to reduce ALL germans soldiers as EVIL beings. Isn't just that simple... Most of them were just following orders, just like any other soldier which most of the time doesn't even know why he's fighting.

Of course, I am not talking about Hitler or Mengele or any other of those sick bastards, you know.

As for the EVIL german killing the GOOD jew just because he was jew... Well, that's what Spielberg want you to believe. That's exactly the kind of thing I dispise on his new "serious" movies.

Thanks for your comments JClark.
SPR would be a masterpiece if just ended after the Omacha Beach sequence. But unfortunately, it had to go on.
And no matter how gore the battle sequences were, in the end the message was just:

"WAR IS BAD, BUT IT'S NECESSARY SINCE IT MAKES HEROES OUT OF OUR BOYS AND COUNTRY..."

You would be surprised to know that a LOT of people agree with me on this controversial subject.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lancelot:
As for your seemingly antagonistic tirades, they remain too cunning to be understood. Perhaps one of your supporters might clarify....?

---

I don't need any "supporters" to say what I think. If you can't understand what I say, well... try to learn some Portuguese and I will be pleased to talk with you...

But yes, that's really shocking and terrible. The world is full of shocking and terrible things.

Sometimes people see so many of these kind of things that they just check out. We all have our own horrors to live with.

You know Andre', there are some people who are so lucky. There have never seen a dead body, They don't know about the Cultural Revolution or Stalin's purges. They have never heard of the Kymer Rouge or The Shining Path gorillas, but once you know those things, you can never go back to not knowing them. You just have to live with them.

At least we get to live, unlike all those who died because of who they were or where they were.

Sounds like a good time to go out and stare at the moon and be glad to be alive!

But they could just as easily been right wing groups like the KKK or Neo-Nazis, Noriaga, Survivalists, Islamic terrorists or any of the rest of the ilk that like to make a point that way.

quote:

---

Originally posted by MWRuger:
Hope you don't think I'm a reactionary.

---

For a moment I thought you were because of your typical "COMMUNISTS GO HOME" reaction after I pointed some of the well knows crimes perpetuated by USA agents around the world...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scorro:
I believe John Williams has scored a B grade movie recently, and it's called "The Patriot".

---

Nah.... THE IDIOT is not a B movie. B movies aren't supposed to take themselves seriously.