quote:

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Originally posted by JJH:
NOTE TO THE MASSES:
If you abhor the general idea of rip-offs and the like, you probably shouldn't BE a film music fan in the first place.

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Hehehehehe...
Elfman's fans have bizarre ways to justify his lack of skills on scoring fantasy movies...

And SFT, I've heard that score.
It's from Bernard Herrrmann you know.
He's good.
It's probably the score which influencied Williams and Young on composing "The Fury" and "Hellbound" - the scores Elfman used to "create" (RIP-OFF!!!!!!!) his poor "Batman"...

But what else is news!!

You can go on for days trying to point out other people's influences. Can't we just sit down and try to enjoy the music without pulling it appart?

NP - The Beatles Anthology Volume 2; Disc 2: Track 5 - "A Day In The Life" *****/*****
One of the coolest Beatles tracks to date, we hear 3 early takes of one song blended into one...Take 1, Take 2, & Take 6. We see how creative the Beatles truly were here, and then compare it to the final version from the Sgt Pepper album. Wow.

But then again, I'm what you call a second-generation Beatles Maniac.

[This message has been edited by AaronR1074 (edited 30 July 2000).]

What the hell makes you think that was a confirmation of Elfman's talent, one way or the other?

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Originally posted by AaronR1074:
Andre, No, I'm just sick to death of people saying, "This composer stole this idea from one, and that idea was already used once by this other guy..."

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Ok, Aaron. I respect it.
But you must understand that some people aren't sick to death to talk about composers stealing from others...

I just find this subject fascinating since I can't enjoy music which is a shameless rip-off from other people's work. Just can't. If you can, well cheers to you.

I am with you.

SFT,

glad to see you are still alive.

We discussed this to death on the old board and here for that matter and he has very strong views on both these subjects that are not likely to change regardless of the argument or evidence offered.

I certainly respect his constancy, even if I disagree with his viewpoint. Just as I won’t get into a debate about Jerry Goldsmith with Daniel2, so do I avoid Danny Elfman and MV with Andre.

I have to say that Danny Elfman is the composer that got me actively collecting scores again. I really enjoyed all of his early work including, as Andre calls it, “ FunFa” scores. I have almost all of them and enjoy them immensely. I prefer Batman over Batman Returns but I also admit that most of his dissonant stuff doesn’t do much for me.

If he actually does Spiderman I suspect it will be similar to Sleepy Hollow, which to me did not sound like a return to his roots but rather an extension of his atonal, dissonant style with a darker imagery. As long as he remembers that Spiderman is not a psychotic loner brimming with angst, he should do okay.

I think Elfman is a smart fellow who could get inside the Spider-Man character very easily. Oh, I just had a thought, though: except for nominating Christopher Young for every score, as I tend to do, here's someone who could REALLY go to town on SPIDER-MAN: Carter Burwell! You heard it here first: I want Carter Burwell to score SPIDER-MAN!!!! THAT is my first choice! (sorry Chris, I'll be more than happy if you happen to get it) -- but you know, a LOT of the success of SPIDER-MAN has to do with who winds up writing and directing the thing. I'm always mistrustful when they BEGIN with the star ... even one as unproven and (let's be honest) little-known as Maguire. (Why do they call some of these kids "stars" when all that makes them "stars" is superstitious executives, vampiric publicists, and rapacious agents who manage to get these "stars" insane salaries and outsized trailers?)

Over at "Just Movies," I see that my months-old endorsement of Tobey Maguire as Peter Parker may be coming to fruition, so maybe my endorsement of Carter Burwell will work too! Hey, Stephen King might've been right! (I refer to his short story "Word Processor of the Gods.")

any thoughts??

James Cromwell doesn't LOOK much like the design of the character, but he's a terrific actor who could really sell it. (Huh, J.T. Walsh just popped into my head, but he's dead as well! Dammit!)

And for JJ's sidekick Robbie: How about the underrated and underused William Marshall? Or perhaps the equally underrated and underused Don Blakely?

A long time ago, we discussed Bruce Campbell for the Green Goblin (dantoris wanted him for Spidey, but I rerouted him to the Goblin) ... Tim Curry would be cool, but we'd never buy him as Norman Osborne, would we? And the Goblin shows more facial expressions than Spidey does, so it's VERY important that one can tie the two characters together.

quote:

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Originally posted by MWRuger:
Guys, it is pointless to argue with Andre about Elfman or MV. He is implacable on these two points.

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Hummmm... that's really unfair Ruger.
I am very open to new sounds and scores, even from Elfman or Zimmer. The fact is that these two gentlemen, particulary the second one, didn't do anything which impressed me, except the ones from Elfman which I am always pointing to be among my favorites.

But it seems that no one ever read that... Aparently one has to like ALL their scores to be considered a nice person around here.
Fascinating...

You don't have to like any of their scores to be a nice person. I am sure you are a fine fellow, it's just that discussion about why people like Danny Elfman and MV stuff seems to evolve into an acrimonious event.

Your viewpoint on these subjects is well known, and frankly it sometimes seems like you feel that people who like Elfman and MV scores are stupid or ignorant of good music when it is really a matter of taste. I have read many of your debates on other subjects and don't get that impression so I assume that something about these two subjects really gets on your bad side.

I understand your point of view on these two subjects as you have presented them many times. I just don't agree with it. That said, I have no problem with you liking or not liking any of them. I assume you likewise have no problem with me liking them.

quote:

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Originally posted by MWRuger:
...it's just that discussion about why people like Danny Elfman and MV stuff seems to evolve into an acrimonious event.
Your viewpoint on these subjects is well known, and frankly it sometimes seems like you feel that people who like Elfman and MV scores are stupid or ignorant of good music when it is really a matter of taste.

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You know, that's exactly what I was talking about. It's always an acrimonious event to talk about Elfman or Zimmer.

And of course I don't think that people who like Elfman or MV scores are stupid or ignorant. What I find stupid and ignorant is the kind of reply I (and others) got everytime express negative reviews of any of their scores.
I don't have any problems with people not agreeing with me, but what I find amusing is the kind usual mad fanboy"SHUT UP! ELFMAN (OR ZIMMER) IS GOD. WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE SAYING THAT KIND OF THING ABOUT THEM!!!!" reply.

although this post will probably be erased too, here is what i said in my support of thor and his opinion of this andre lux character:

"who does this andre lux character think he is anyway? i've been lurking on this board for quite some time, and I am so fed up with this person's insults against thor and others. he must have a BIG inferiority complex, since he's using personal attacks as his only arguments!!! thanks for trying, though, thor. I support you all the way!!!! (by the way, we haven't seen a topic from you (thor) in a while. whazzap?)

i know this is probably not the best way to start off on this board, but i'm so annoyed by the arrogant and seemingly non-intelligent things this andre lux person spews out all the time, that i had to speak up. don't get the wrong impression, i'm really a nice guy (at least so i think), but this fella really gets to me!!!!!"

You should have read with close attention to all those threads about "censorship" a few months back. There is no such thing as a deserving criticism OF ANOTHER PERSON on these boards. This is not a "criticise people" forum. Here we criticise THE MUSIC OF THE MOVIES. If we don't like what or how someone has said something, we address THAT. We don't address THEM.

And this isn't just for you, Thor, or Reed. This is for everyone, including ANDRE LUX and ADMINISTRATORK.

If you'll notice, all the posts that were REMOVED had nothing to do with Spider-Man.

PeterK <----- frustrated

One of those tiny, TINY figurine-like spiders came crawling out earlier today as I was at the keyboard, then scurried to hide under a nearby piece of paper once it sensed I'd noticed it. (How does a creature with zero brain power understand that kind of thing? I've always wondered.) Don't know quite what ever became of it, but it was too small to upset me. Anyway, I caught it half an hour ago and am fattening it up as a premature Christmas present JUUUUST for Marian. (If I had it as bad as you do, I'd be keeping a Dustbuster by my side at all times -- that's American for handheld vacuum cleaner -- but perhaps that would bring you into too close a proximity to these selfsame beasts, and God knows there are enough kinds of them that just LOVE to jump. Sweet dreams!)

If you don't read any more posts by me, I'd advise you to keep a large distance to Vienna, Rocco, as this will probably mean that the spiders have finally transformed my home into their own home base.