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Author	Topic: Who says you don't need another version of KING KONG...

SPOR Oscar® Winner	A couple of threads ago I expressed the conclusion that nothing more could be said about a 70 year old movie score about a stop motion gorilla. Well, as it turns out, I was wrong. Marco Polo's restoration/re-recording is as sure-fire an ear wax cleaner if I ever heard one. It's like a completely different score. Who would have thought there was so much depth and colour to be found under 3/4's of a centuries worth of dust and misconception. My hat goes off to Mr's Morgan and Stromberg for a job very, very well done...
posted 07-13-2000 07:02 PM PT (US)

MWRuger Oscar® Winner	Let's Max Steiner a litlle credit as well. It's the old saying, "You can't make a silk purse froma sow's ear"
posted 07-13-2000 07:10 PM PT (US)

SPOR Oscar® Winner	Well, that's pretty much a given don't ya think?!?
posted 07-13-2000 07:27 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	One thing to consider: I believe the Marco Polo version (which is outstanding) uses an orchestra at least twice the size of what Steiner could assemble. As one of the first film scores (as we think of them) of all time, the studio perhaps was unwilling to shell out for more. The Marco Polo version represents sort of a "reimagination" of the score as much as a "reconstruction" -- hewing as close as possible to the source (couldn't they have shelled out for chorus just for that one bit, the "Natives' Dance"? I bought the Rhino OST just for that one piece). It's sort of like a cover version of a song. Has anyone ever heard Steiner's early concert piece -- pre-Hollywood, I think -- entitled "The Beautiful Greek Girl"?
posted 07-13-2000 07:33 PM PT (US)

Chris Kinsinger Oscar® Winner	I thought that the title of this thread was referring to another MOVIE! I'm not fond of Dino DeLaurentis's 1976 remake, so I would welcome another KING KONG, if it was produced using decent visual effects. Dino's were embarrassing! NP: LifeForce Mancini
posted 07-13-2000 07:36 PM PT (US)

MWRuger Oscar® Winner	Hmmm...Probably not or I wouldn't have mentioned it! Yeah, your right I probably didn't need to mention it, but I just like to see Max Steiner's name up in lights as he did my favorite piece of film music...The Caine Mutiny!!! NP: Gladiator By The Sweatshop Boys
posted 07-13-2000 07:50 PM PT (US)

Eric Paddon Oscar® Winner	C'mon Chris, it wasn't that bad. Besides, just try to watch "King Kong Lives" once and you'll really learn to appreciate the 76 remake better! Flawed as it is, I will always have a soft spot for the 76 version since it was the first big budget film I can remember going to see as a child and I bought all the trading cards and other things that came out at the time.
posted 07-13-2000 08:07 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	I rather like the 76 KONG -- as Mr. Paddon knows! It wasn't the original, but then it wasn't trying to be. (The Universal version proposed at the same time would've been a straight remake set in the 1930s, which I think would have been a mistake.) It's really almost better than it has a right to be, given its troubled production. (Dino was just stupid to insist on spending so much time and money on that damn 40-foot robot that wouldn't move. He got the publicity he wanted, but at the cost of so much else.) As I've written elsewhere, I have some FIFTEEN YEARS' worth of notes on a KONG remake, which I used to dream of doing. I see two obstacles now: (A) it's a trademark, and the headaches of doing what I want to do with the trademark are more than I want, and (B) the way special effects are done today. I'm taking all my best ideas and putting them in another script which I could do for cheaper, and more importantly, do MY WAY. Actually I came up with the other idea about eight years ago, and had plenty enough ideas to carry it as WELL as KONG, but I see no point in doing more than one giant monster film (yeah, like you could really make a career out of that in this country): rather, just make one big blowout one. NP: THE OMEN (complete)
posted 07-13-2000 08:50 PM PT (US)

Nicolai P. Zwar Oscar® Winner	THE OMEN (complete)? Honorable Mr. Rocco, where might I find such a thing. I suppose it is a boot, how is the quality?
posted 07-14-2000 05:56 AM PT (US)

Howard L Oscar® Winner	The '76 version was an annoying camped-with-lame-humor mess. "...You male chauvinist pig ape!"; the Grodin character; the half-hearted giant snake insertion. Need I say more?
posted 07-14-2000 06:34 AM PT (US)

John Morgan Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by MWRuger: Let's Max Steiner a litlle credit as well. It's the old saying, "You can't make a silk purse froma sow's ear" So true, but as Leroy Holmes proved, you can make a sow's ear from a silk purse! John
posted 07-14-2000 06:57 AM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Oscar® Winner	didn't the '76 version get nominated for an Oscar for visuals? I thought Rick Baker did a damn fine job of playing Kong and with the costume design. I know at one time Peter Jackson (Frightners) had considered doing a remake. In fact I remember seeing a picture of him sitting next to two sculpted demo models for the cgi Kong and T-Rex fighting next to the tree with the girl in it.
posted 07-14-2000 06:52 PM PT (US)

Eric Paddon Oscar® Winner	It was given a special award for visual effects, which as I understand prompted a lot of anger from stop motion effects wizards like Jim Danforth who I think even resigned from the Academy in protest. For regular awards, I think it received a nomination for cinematography.
posted 07-14-2000 08:04 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	What he said. The Oscar-nominated cameraman was Richard H. Kline, who had recently done DEATH WISH and MANDINGO -- both also produced by De Laurentiis -- and would receive a second (and so far last) Oscar nomination for STAR TREK - TMP. Shortly after that, he shot BODY HEAT and the remake of BREATHLESS. [This message has been edited by H Rocco (edited 14 July 2000).]
posted 07-14-2000 08:49 PM PT (US)

SPOR Oscar® Winner	Well, since we're not discussing Marco Polo's re-recording of KING KONG anymore... Are you certain about that nomination for STAR TREK: TMP, HRocco? From what I can recall, there was a good deal of derision hefted his way because of all the deep focus he used, though personally, I think the cinematography is one of the finer points of the film. Even the complaints about how dark the bridge scenes were (in order to better augment the low res video monitors on the set) seems, when compared to the sterile lighting of many of the sequels, an entirely reasonable accomodation which, in my humble opinion, provided undeniable dramatic effect for a set bound movie. And, while I'm at it...though I'm not a big fan of STAR TREK: 1V, I would have to say the cinematographer for this sequel received a well deserved nomination himself. The film is beautifully lit.
posted 07-14-2000 10:41 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	I'm quite certain Kline was nominated, though am too tired and lazy to cross-reference right now. I seem to remember that Kline was also derided, earlier in his career, for his use of more "natural" lighting, e.g. pretty much any scene in MANDINGO, most of which takes place in plantation-era South houses which did not, of course, have the benefit of floodlights.
posted 07-14-2000 10:52 PM PT (US)

PeterD Oscar® Winner	Hmmm. Halliwell's Film Guide (which isn't infallible in these matters) lists Oscar nominations for music, visual effects and art direction for "Star Trek: TMP," but not for cinematography. (I notice Kline also did "The Fury" for DePalma.) [This message has been edited by PeterD (edited 15 July 2000).]
posted 07-15-2000 01:00 AM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Oscar® Winner	Nicolai, since nobody answered your question, I'll just mention that The Omen was issued on laserdisc with a stereo isolated score track. If this is what whatever Rocco is listening to was mastered from, the sound ought to be quite good. In fact, I can't wait until I get my laserdisc player fixed so I can listen to it myself...!
posted 07-15-2000 12:47 PM PT (US)

Howard L Oscar® Winner	"MANDINGO" LOL
posted 07-15-2000 01:45 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	Re: Richard H. Kline's Oscar nominations: The IMDb only lists KING KONG and -- CAMELOT, not TREK. Oh well, if Halliwell can be fallible, then I guess I can be.
posted 07-15-2000 05:49 PM PT (US)

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