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Tiomkin's Versatility
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Topic: Tiomkin's Versatility

joan hue

Oscar® Winner

So talk to me some of you experts about Dimitri Tiomkin. I think his
music in films was the first I ever noticed. What I find interesting about
him is his versatility. As SPOR said, he had an “epiphany” when he heard
his action music in the Guns of Navarone. Wonderful score. Other action
scores I first noticed were Duel In The Sun, Red River, The
Unforgiven, and my favorite, Giant. Excellent themes.
Then he can compose lovely melodies like Thee I Love
from Friendly Persuasion and the main theme from The High And The
Mighty. Top that off with the horrific music from The Thing.The other day I was back in my bedroom when
I heard a gorgeous theme only to find Gunfight At O.K. Corral playing on
AMC. What amazes me is that he could compose melodies or songs to
titles like Gunfight At O.K. Corral, Hajji Baba, and High Noon. I’m
assuming he employed a lyricist for words. (?)Other recommendations?
NP Nothing. I rented My Dog Skip yesterday and watched Powder today.
Kween of Kleenex if too dehydrated from blubbering. Maybe I’ll find
a comedic score.posted 07-12-2000 11:10 PM PT (US) 
dantoris

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by joan hue:
Top that off with the horrific music from The Thing.Horrific in that it was a terrible score, or horrific in the sense that the music was appropriately "horrific" for the film (meaning it was great)?
NP: Mission: Impossible rejected - "The Basement/Elevator Problems" ****/*****
posted 07-12-2000 11:43 PM PT (US) 
Laurence Page

Oscar® Winner

Apart from the classic scores to The Alamo and The Fall of the Roman Empire I can thoroughly recommend the score to "Lost Horizon" - available as a suite from the ever-reliable Mr Gerhardt on RCA on his Tiomkin compilation; the original soundtrack recording has also been released in mono. Also well worth hearing is his music to the Burt Lancaster western "The Unforgiven".
Happy listening!
posted 07-13-2000 05:18 AM PT (US) 
Sharol

Oscar® Nominee

"Giant" by Dimitri Tiomkin is a favorite score of mine too, Joan and I was very pleased when I found it on CD a few years ago. Tiomkin had Tex Ritter sing his theme to "High Noon".
posted 07-13-2000 06:25 AM PT (US) 
PeterD

Oscar® Winner

Joan,Tiomkin also wrote the scores for several of Hitchcock's pictures before Hitchcock teamed up with Herrmann -- next time you watch "Strangers on a Train," listen to his terrific music for the tennis match/cigarette lighter sequence.
His favorite lyricists, by the way, were Ned Washington ("High Noon" and "Gunfight at the OK Corral," among others) and Paul Webster ("Friendly Persuasion"). In his autobiography, "Please Don't Hate Me," Tiomkin tells an amusing anecdote about calling in Ned Washington and playing him the melody from "High Noon" on the piano for the first time, and Washington responding, with a puzzled expression, "What are you doing, Dimi, playing variations?"
He also says that Jessamyn West, who wrote the stories that "Friendly Persuasion" was based on, at first wanted to write the lyrics herself for all the songs in the movie, but was won over by two of Paul Webster's lines, "Though I don't know many words of praise, Thee pleasures me in a hundred ways."
posted 07-13-2000 07:37 AM PT (US) 
Howard L
Oscar® Winner

And don't forget It's A Wonderful Life. My earliest Tiomkin memories are High And The Mighty and The Thing. I also recall a Jack Benny episode when Jack needed help composing something, and guess who stopped by.PS
Saw Lost Horizon again not too long ago & it occurred to me that this may have been one of if not THE earliest uses of choral music in film. Wonderful flowing score overall.******************************************************************************
[This message has been edited by Howard L (edited 13 July 2000).]
posted 07-13-2000 09:41 AM PT (US) 
John Morgan
Oscar® Winner

PS
Saw Lost Horizon again not too long ago & it occurred to me that this may have been one of if not THE earliest uses of choral music in film. Wonderful flowing score overall.******************************************************************************
Max Steiner used a choir in his 1934 score THE LOST PATROL.posted 07-13-2000 10:57 AM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

The Steiner connection may be more significant than you think. Frank Capra wrote in his memoirs that he hired Tiomkin without being entirely sure the guy could pull off LOST HORIZON, so also hired Max Steiner to conduct the score, in case it turned out to be a bust -- in which case, "wise old Steiner" would rush another score out. I'm not sure Tiomkin knew while he wrote it that Steiner was lurking in the wings (it might have undermined his confidence horribly), but Capra was thrilled with what he got.
posted 07-13-2000 03:34 PM PT (US) 
logied

Oscar® Winner

I have often thought that Tiomkin must hold
the title of film composer with the most hit
songs to come from his scores. It would be
interesting to compare him with, say, Barry.N.P - the underated Tiomkin, 36 hrs.
posted 07-13-2000 04:29 PM PT (US) 
Chris Kinsinger

Oscar® Winner

Well, I'm too late.
All of my Tiomkin favorites have already been mentioned...but I'll mention them once more:It's A Wonderful Life
The Fall Of The Roman Empire
Lost Horizon
Strangers On A Train
The Thing From Another World
The High And The Mighty
The Guns Of NavaroneAnd dantoris...I'm certain that Joan meant "horrific" in the best goosebump-making sense. Tiomkin's score for The Thing literally gives me goosebumps! Right from the start, when the Winchester fanfare closes and the music turns frightening, I'm Goosebump Central!
NP: Ghost Story Sarde
posted 07-13-2000 05:24 PM PT (US) 
joan hue

Oscar® Winner

Yes, Chris, you're right. I meant the adjective "horrific" as a homage. Goosebumps galore with that music. Great movies listed on this thread. I need to give a few an updated listen. Also, PeterD, I didn't know about his autobiography which I will read. Thanks all.NP The High and The Mighty
posted 07-13-2000 05:47 PM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

Hey, Don't forget one of my faves LAND OF THE PHARAOHS.p.s. Ghost Story?, good choice of NP Chris.
my NP : Hammett - Barry
posted 07-13-2000 05:48 PM PT (US) 
John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner

Joan, I have been a big fan of his ever since I heard the Alamo in 1960 when we saw the first run at the Hollywood Theatre in Ft. Worth. We had to stand in a line all down the street for over an hour to get in. It ran for 16 weeks there. About the only place it did that well was in Texas, of course. That score is great.I also like 36 Hours, all the ones mentioned above, "Horse Ballet" from Unforgiven, all his westerns, His Majesty O'Keefe, Tarzan and the Mermaids, Drums of the Deep South and others. All great stuff. Best, John.
posted 07-13-2000 05:52 PM PT (US) 
Howard L
Oscar® Winner

Hey H Rocco, were the Capra memoirs you're referring to from his autobio "The Name Above The Title"? I read that book decades ago, had practically forgotten.
posted 07-14-2000 06:26 AM PT (US) 
John Morgan
Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by H Rocco:
The Steiner connection may be more significant than you think. Frank Capra wrote in his memoirs that he hired Tiomkin without being entirely sure the guy could pull off LOST HORIZON, so also hired Max Steiner to conduct the score, in case it turned out to be a bust -- in which case, "wise old Steiner" would rush another score out. I'm not sure Tiomkin knew while he wrote it that Steiner was lurking in the wings (it might have undermined his confidence horribly), but Capra was thrilled with what he got.Certainly true. In fact, Steiner was much more involved than just conducting. He worked with Tiomkin suggesting orchestrational ideas and sort of oversaw the entire music angle. Tiomkin was delighted with Steiner;s involvement.
John
posted 07-14-2000 07:02 AM PT (US) 
PeterD

Oscar® Winner

John,I keep hoping to catch you on one of these threads to ask you a question -- off-topic (well, not exactly, since we're talking about Steiner) -- but is there any chance RCA (or perhaps some other label) will ever re-issue your "Adventures of Mark Twain"/"Prince and the Pauper" CD? I've been searching for months for this one, with no luck . . .
posted 07-14-2000 07:11 AM PT (US) 
Nicolai P. Zwar

Oscar® Winner

Dimitri Tiomkin was the Tchaikovsky of film music, and I mean that in the best sense. He's not the darling of the critics, but he sure knew how to write a good tune.NP: Carl Maria von Weber DER FREISCHÜTZ
Berliner Philharmoniker/Harnoncourt (Teldec)(Still gives me the creeps, that score.)
posted 07-14-2000 02:26 PM PT (US) 
JohnT

Oscar® Nominee

two of his best scores,IMO, are for The Big Sky and Rio Bravo. Both are in a 'quieter' vein than for instance 'Giant'; and the films themselves are two of Hawks' best if you have not come across them before.Definitely worth seeking out.
JohnT.
posted 07-16-2000 11:25 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Howard: yes, "The Name Above the Title."John Morgan: I'm sure you're right, but where'd that Steiner/Tiomkin anecdote come from? Tiomkin's own memoirs? (Which I must admit I haven't even seen a copy of, let alone read. My entire understanding of this story comes from the Capra book.)
posted 07-17-2000 12:06 AM PT (US) 
SPOR

Oscar® Winner

Anybody got the foggiest idea where I might locate a copy of "The Guns of Navarrone' that doesn't cost over $30.00? Or, even 'Giant'?
posted 07-17-2000 08:33 AM PT (US) 
PeterD

Oscar® Winner

H Rocco,Since one never knows how long it will be before John M. drops by again, I think in the meantime I can answer the second half of your question, anyways. In his memoirs, Tiomkin does speak very highly of his collaboration with Steiner on "Lost Horizon," but I suspect John has another source regarding the extent of Steiner's contribution. This is what Tiomkin says in his book:
" 'Lost Horizon' spoiled me completely. The conductor was Max Steiner, who was also a first-rate composer. Composers are usually jealous of each other, like rival tenors in an opera company; but Steiner had only one idea -- to get the best out of the score. If I made a suggestion, he wanted to find out what was in my mind and do it that way. He was responsible for much of the musical success of the film."
Tiomkin says that his experience with Steiner "made it harder for me to go back to the routine studio conductors," and that's when he began to think of learning to conduct his own scores.
By the way, I've come across an interesting bit of Tiomkin/Hawks trivia: Hawks originally offered Tiomkin the job of scoring "Hatari!," before hiring Henry Mancini. Here's how Hawks explains it in Joseph McBride's "Hawks on Hawks":
"We went through a phase of putting lousy music into pictures where inferior musicians copied great masters. It just became ridiculous, with about twenty violins and fifteen cellos and woodwinds and all of that stuff. I worked with Tiomkin, whom I thought was a pretty good musician, but when we made 'Hatari!,' I said to Dimi, 'Look, I don't want one violin, I don't want one cello. I don't want any woodwind. I want native instruments or something else that you can think of.' He said, 'That's a great idea, boss.' Then he called me the next day and said, 'You were fooling, weren't you?' And I said, 'You're fired, Dimi.' He said, 'What do you mean?' I said, 'Anybody who doesn't want to do what I tell them to do, I don't want.' "
That Hawks -- such a card . . .
posted 07-17-2000 07:10 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Didn't Hawks also indicate to Peter Bogdanovich that he wasn't happy with the Alex North score to CHEYENNE AUTUMN?
posted 07-17-2000 07:15 PM PT (US) 
John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner

John T., a good portion of Rio Bravo was reused in the Alamo, as you probably know. The Deguella theme is all through both films. Best, John.
posted 07-17-2000 08:01 PM PT (US) 
John Morgan
Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by H Rocco:
Howard: yes, "The Name Above the Title."John Morgan: I'm sure you're right, but where'd that Steiner/Tiomkin anecdote come from? Tiomkin's own memoirs? (Which I must admit I haven't even seen a copy of, let alone read. My entire understanding of this story comes from the Capra book.)
I knew Steiner and we talked briefly about Lost Horizon. Steiner thought it Tiomkin's best score. Another source is Bill Rosar, who has studied the music quite extensively and also communicated with many of the orchestrators on the film that were still alive at the time. Other than the conducting, there is quite a bit of evidence of "Steinerisms" in the music itself.
Johnposted 07-18-2000 06:47 AM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
