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      Hey, Trek execs!

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    Author
    Topic:   Hey, Trek execs!

     JJH
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    why don't you use some of that money in the Trek coffers and actually TRY to make a decent DVD of ONLY THE MOST POPULAR TV/ FILM FRANCHISE IN THE WORLD? Perhaps before all the rest of the TOS cast dies, or goes insane?

    Rick Berman:
    you sir, are a dork.

    won't be buying ANY of the Trek DVDs.

    NP -- Moby, "Play" CD



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    posted 07-11-2000 04:21 PM PT (US)     

     Jeron
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    Oh, JJH - come on. Dork doesn't cut it. You know deep down inside you want to say "Poopyhead."

    Jeron

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    posted 07-11-2000 04:24 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    youre right.

    Poopyhead might very well have been better.

    but "dork" sounded funnier to me.

    Jeron:
    you sir, are a Poopyhead

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    posted 07-11-2000 04:27 PM PT (US)     

     HAL 2000
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    Hey Jeron. we all know you're a Trek nut. Check out some rather testy things Robert Beltran (Chacotay, sic?) had to say about his experience with the show.
    http://www.cinescape.com/core.html

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    posted 07-11-2000 04:31 PM PT (US)     

     Timmer
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    In English, I guess (will this come through?) Rick Berman is a wanker or a twat!!

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    posted 07-11-2000 06:23 PM PT (US)     

     Timmer
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    wow!, It came through!, I'm not sure this woulda been allowed by a British Peter K?!

    NP : Masada - oh wasssissname

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    posted 07-11-2000 06:26 PM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    What is everyone's deal against Mr. Berman? I have yet to see what's so "terrible" (or "dorky") about him. I think he's done a fine job. Please, somebody tell me why so many appear to have it out for him.

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    posted 07-11-2000 06:48 PM PT (US)     

     SPOR
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    Because he turned Gene Roddenberry's ambitious premise for entertating speculative sci-fi into Star Trek: 90290. Christ, Janeway's practically got the whole crew suckling at her tit. Paris and Harry still have grown past puberty. 7of 9 is a walking Victoria's Secret Drone. The Doctor is a whiny disciple of the C3P0 school of grating annoyance (circa ROJ). And Bellana couldn't possibly be less interesting a character than, perhaps, Neelix, who might as well be on a leash being fed hackneyed aphorisms by Tuvok...perhaps the dullest alien to ever grace the small screen. As for Chakotay...is he a character at all?

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    posted 07-11-2000 07:16 PM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    Well, I certainly have no problem with Seven of Nine (YOW!!), but I agree the Voyager crew is one of the worst sci-fi ship crews in history. Every time I see a portion of the show, they come across as a group of people I'd like to shoot out of an airlock.

    But I was referring to the films, actually. I keep hearing people say how he's ruined the films with his "clenched fist" on the filmmaker's visions and stuff like that. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the movies.

    Just wondering.

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    posted 07-11-2000 07:30 PM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    Part of the reason that people are upset with Mr. Berman is that he has done little to keep the franchise alive in the eyes of the fans. Star Trek is one of the few SF series that fans feel proprietary about. They feel, perhaps rightly, there wouldn’t be any Star Trek if it wasn’t for their activities. Fans feel like that more attention should be paid to what they would like as opposed to what some suit would like because they are the ones who routinely buy Star Trek stuff and watch the shows and movies

    Berman and Company ( Paramount Execs) routinely discount input from fans and seldom attempt to placate them with any kind of extras or goodies. Examples:
    >
    >
    >

    The DVD’s could be loaded with extras. They won’t be because Berman and Company know they don’t have to. They will sell fine without any extras. Having said that, let me point out that I doubt if any new light could be shed by having the original cast do a commentary track (even if you could get them to agree since so many of the original cast hate William Shatner) because almost all of them have written books declaring what they believe and what they remember of the original episodes and movies. Further as to deleted scenes, some of them are not available in Widescreen format because Paramount couldn’t think of any reason to keep widescreen cutting floor footage. (ST:TMP) so that maybe one of the reasons we aren’t getting deleted scenes


    Generations. The first movie Next Gen movie reused special effects and stock f ootage because they could. They knew it would do a 100 mil and it did.

    When they ask fans what they want in a series, or what kind of stories should be done, they routinely ignore whatever is suggested. (I am not talking stuff that couldn’t be shot)

    The generally low opinion fans have of the current and recent shows. They blame a lot of this on Berman and Company. In fairness, they are the ones in charge of what some fans consider sacrosanct material and they don’t show proper reverence. (Example: They had to scrub the date of the Eugenics war from the original series for a Voyage episode because it (Eugenics War) was supposed to take place in the 90’s and they wanted to do a Time travel Episode set in the our 90’s)
    >
    >
    >
    >

    In all, given the realities of making an expensive SF show, I think that they do a fair job of producing a show that is accessible to all. The problem is that they are willing to give up great story ideas to make it more accessible. (Example: The Reset Universe is very annoying. The reset Universe refers to the fact that nothing that happens on Star Trek matters. If one week they discover a brand new technology, it is immediately forgotten the next week. This is done because in syndication, there is no guarantee that shows will be shown in any particular order)

    There are many other examples, but these should suffice to give you an idea of what fans have against Berman and Company.


    [This message has been edited by MWRuger (edited 11 July 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by MWRuger (edited 11 July 2000).]

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    posted 07-11-2000 07:41 PM PT (US)     

     Jack
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    I'm not a Berman fan either for several reasons:

    1. He doesn't care about continuity. Gene had a guy on staff who was responsible for trying to keep things consistent.

    2. He not only thinks Brandon Braga can write, but he has him in charge of Voyager

    3. He doesn't place as much importance on music as Gene and Bob Justman did. Does any self respecting Goldsmith fan like Dennis McCarthy?

    Want to fix the movies? Bring back Nick Meyer (Trek 2, 4, 6).

    Of course, it's just my opinion.

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    posted 07-11-2000 07:47 PM PT (US)     

     Ford A. Thaxton
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    Folks,
    It's not Rick Berrman's fault the DVD's don't have added features.

    My understanding is that the folks at Paramount Home Video would like to add some special features to the DVD's, but they have to date been unable to get approvals from TPTB who are very high up the food chain at Paramont.

    The Wiseman project regarsding ST-TMP is the first time Paramount Home Video has gotton approval to do something this special for TREK.

    And if your hopoing for isolated music scores.

    I'm told GNP CRESCENDO has already made their feellings quite clear to Paramount on the topic and the other record companies who have the soundtrack rights to the various films agreed.

    Regards


    Ford A. Thaxton

    [This message has been edited by Ford A. Thaxton (edited 11 July 2000).]

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    posted 07-11-2000 07:55 PM PT (US)     

     Chris Kinsinger
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    I used to LOVE Star Trek.
    The Original Series was full of great writing and wonderful characters the like of which NO other Trek series has duplicated.
    I tried valiantly to like TNG, but it became more and more difficult for me, due mostly to the overall poor quality of the scripts...too much techo-babble, too little character study.
    Week after week I saw wonderful visuals wrapped around empty ideas, and I simply became bored. But, I kept watching...until the show became a complete embarrassment to anybody with a working brain.
    Along the way, there were certainly a few highlights...Yesterday's Enterprise is an episode that I believe ranks right up there with the very finest of filmed science fiction! But these moments were the exception for me, and I became increasingly tired of tuning in to this sad display. Finally, there was the episode with Sherlock Holmes (forgive me, I cannot recall the title). By this time I was already fed up with the holodeck, a flimsy and totally unbelievable dramatic device which was, I'm sure, cooked up in a desperate attempt to save wildly-out-of-control scripts from being deep-sixxed.
    In this episode we are to believe that Data plays a Holmes game in the holodeck, and in the process conjures Moriarty, who in turn discovers a way to place the Enterprise in VERY REAL jeopardy.
    So we've got this 25th Century "Game Room" that ultimately poses a completely destructive threat to the ship.

    In my mind, this was the "Moment Of Truth" for TNG.

    During a commercial, I told my wife, "If Picard DOESN'T HAVE THAT PIECE OF CRAP DISMANTLED at the end of this episode, I shall never watch Star Trek: TNG again!

    Well...there it is.


    NP: The Stepford Wives on AMC.

    [This message has been edited by Chris Kinsinger (edited 11 July 2000).]

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    posted 07-11-2000 08:33 PM PT (US)     

     High Plains Drifter
    unregistered  

    Even though I'm still enjoying this franchise (whose obituary seemingly everyone & their mama's already written in absentia), since this is a Make-Trek-Our-Beeyotch fest I'll play along. Here's My big beef:
    THEY STOPPED MAKING STAR TREK MICRO MACHINES!!
    You wanna talk about people buying Star Trek stuff? Then you gotta know, I LOVED them little things, man. Galoob Toys has always been willing to pick up the license again. If only Paramount would answer the damn door.
    BTW, MWR: here's the way those of us in the know explain the Eugenics War continuity error re Voy's "Future's End": you accept that Kirk & Spock mispoke when they said they took place in the 1990s. Actually, they took place in the 2090s. This makes more sense not only in light of the just-completed human genome mapping, but the DS9 ep "Doctor Bashir I Presume", in which Admiral Sterling Hayden (looked like him, anyway) says the Eugenics Wars took place 200 years previous (from the DS9 time's POV). Makes sense to me, I'll go along with that. As much precedent as Trek has set, I admire the fact that they've been able to avoid stomping on & contradicting even More of it.
    Too much consistency's the hobgoblin. . .

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    posted 07-11-2000 09:01 PM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    It doesn't bother me in the least actually. I like the show, even Voyager. I was simply trying to answer dantoris' question.

    As far as the Eugenics War thing I never even thought of it until someone was frothing about it on one of the boards. My reaction was..Oh,SO?

    You are right about those micromachines. Did you get the boxed Collections I & II with the extra ships? Very Cool

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    posted 07-11-2000 10:13 PM PT (US)     

     Swashbuckler
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    Khan actually mentions a date. 1996.

    Just set the damn series in an alternate universe and forget all these damn time-travel ideas.

    And get some @#$%&ing music on the show. To say that Trek is a sound-effects show is to deny the talent of Alexander Courage, Sol Kaplan (whose score for The Doomsday Machine remains one of my all-time favorites), Fred Steiner, Jerry Fielding of all people, and many others...

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    posted 07-12-2000 07:35 AM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Swashbuckler:
    And get some @#$%&ing music on the show.

    Actually, some (not much) DS9 episodes (I liked DS9 from the beginning, but for me, with the later seasons the show became nearly perfect; for weeks there were great episodes without a single bad one. I have yet to see the last seasion, though)... Anyway, some episodes had really good scores, e.g. the Empok Nor show. At least some of those were composed by a Mr. Bell, I forgot his first name (I doubt it's Graham...).

    As for Voyager, it's not THAT bad, there were a few really good episodes. But it surely is disappointing, and there's much more than stupid stuff in it. Let's hope they'll come up with something better for the next series. Actually, I think having the Voyager lost in the Delta quadrant was a good idea to make something new, but an idea alone is not enough - you have to make something of it, too.

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    posted 07-12-2000 08:13 AM PT (US)     

     High Plains Drifter
    unregistered  

    I regret that I'm probably about to make you mucho jealous MWR, but: I have All the Trek Micros. Not only did I snag sets 1 & 2 for a song ($10 and $14 respectively), but my favorite packaging of MMs ever, the LE set 3 with exclusive Ent-E, for only $10! (Averages $200 on ebay these days, alas). Best package design, best mix of ships. Also scored Sisko's Sailor, HMS Bounty K-BOP with hinged wings, Kaztorp AND Caretaker's Array, all at SRP!! I even got the MM-wannabe Captain's Yacht that came with Playmates' Insurrection Ent-E toy. I also got all the B5 micros, Starwars, Men In Black, Starship Troopers, Aliens, Galaxy Voyagers etc. I LOVE them little things man. So much bang for the buck, and they take up zero space too.
    BTW I HATE paying higher than retail. You gotta know, them damn scalper's'll get Nuthin from me. In fact, I've given Them the short end of the stick more than once, and haven't a single regret about doing so. After all, what's good for the goose. . .
    OK Swash, then it was Kirk, Spock AND Khan that mispoke. Happy? ;-)
    Good old Mirror Mirror score. And bring Ron Jones back, you tone-deaf twits. And you gotta know, Don Davis did a great one-shot with TNG's "Face of the Enemy" ep.
    MY favorite Trek MMs:
    Jemhadar
    Cardassian Obsidian
    Defiant
    Sisko Sailor
    Karemma
    Kazon Fighter
    Klingon Flagship
    Ent-E
    Ent-A
    Fed Spacedock
    DS9 Station

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    posted 07-12-2000 08:55 AM PT (US)     

     Swashbuckler
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    Actually, I really enjoyed DS9's last few seasons. I found them to be interesting and involving. Terrible finale, though.

    It doesn't change the fact that, despite the efforts of some very creative composers (David Bell, Ron Jones, Jay Chattaway etc.), musically the spin-off series could have used their music better.

    Rick Berman might have taken a hint from the fact that Gene Roddenberry insisted on using Jerry Goldsmith's theme from ST: TMP for TNG. That might have said something about the direction the music for this show (and any subsequent ones) should have taken.

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    posted 07-12-2000 03:30 PM PT (US)     

     Mark Olivarez
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    I have the Micro Machines 1 & 2. didn't realize they made a 3rd set. Damn!!!!


    NP: JAWS (DECCA) *****/*****

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    posted 07-12-2000 06:50 PM PT (US)     

     High Plains Drifter
    unregistered  

    DAMN, Mark, you didn't know? Well then I regret to inform you, though I suppose you gotta know, that if you're interested in making up for lost time this late in the game, you're probably gonna get screwed in the process :-(
    Anyway, in case you're still interested, here's a complete list of all the ones other than those included in LE Sets 1 & 2, followed by their average closing prices on ebay. Though it's been a couple of months since I tracked MM market behavior, I expect things remain more or less about the same. Bold-lettered listings indicate ships are exclusive to the package specified:

    3-packs:
    #9: Ent-B, Separating Ent-D, Generations Klingon BOP (different mold and paintjob from original BOP) -$6
    #10: Klaestron Ship, Miradorn Ship, Bajoran Fighter -$10
    #11: Farragut, Space Dock Shuttle, HMS Bounty K-BOP -$60
    #12: Defiant, Jemhadar, Saratoga -$45
    #13: Voyager, Kazon Fighter, Maquis Ship -$45
    #14: Kazon Raider, Kazon Mothership, Numiri Ship -$10
    #15: Cardassian Obsidian, Karemma Vessel, Sisko's Bajoran Sailing Vessel -$60
    #16: Voyager Shuttle, Kazon Torpedo, Array -$60

    LE Collector Set #3- includes exclusive Ent-E, plus all ships from 3-packs 10-16, except defiant, farragut and bold-lettered listings.
    So, what most people in your position do to assemble a complete collection is to concentrate on the LE Set 3, plus 3-packs 11, 15 and 16 to get the ships exclusive to those. In total, it'll likely set ya back ~$380 to get it done. However, sometimes you can find auctions which offer all those things together, and in such situations you can often accomplish the same goal for $100 to $150 cheaper.
    If you do, feel free to keep me in mind if you end up with duplicate ships you don't really need. I have friends who are always looking for some to complete their collection :-)
    Good luck, and LMK how things work out.

    [This message has been edited by High Plains Drifter (edited 13 July 2000).]

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    posted 07-13-2000 07:29 AM PT (US)     
     

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