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Topic: The Top 3 Film Composers of All Time

SFT

OscarŪ Winner

I know this topic is very old, and has been done millions of times before, however, since this part of moviemusic.com has been DEAD for some time now, letīs breathe a little life back into it, shall we?My top three:
1. Danny Elfman (of course)

2. Bernard Herrmann (The Father Of Filmmusic)
3. Howard Shore
Well, thereīs nothing to it really, is there? What do you think? Who are your favorites?
posted 09-09-1999 02:56 AM PT (US) 
Audacity

OscarŪ Winner

1. James Newton Howard2. John Williams
3. Goldsmith, Zimmer, Silvestri / Three-way tie. Is that cheating?
posted 09-09-1999 04:38 AM PT (US) 
Kevin
OscarŪ Winner

Korngold.Rosza.
Tiomkin.
(I'll cheat too)
Goldsmith, Williams, Herrmann.
Kevin
NP - The Shadowposted 09-09-1999 06:09 AM PT (US) 
SEBULBA

OscarŪ Winner

That's really a difficult question, but I'd probably have to say...John Williams
Jerry Goldsmith
and
David Arnoldposted 09-09-1999 08:00 AM PT (US) 
Norman McCay

OscarŪ Winner

John WilliamsHans Zimmer/Mark Mancina
James Horner/Alan Silvestri
Okay, so I cheated as well.
posted 09-09-1999 08:22 AM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

Sebulba,This isīnt ment as a critisizme of your opinion, but what are your reasons for naming David Arnold as one of the three best filmcomposers of all time?
I mean, he really doesīnt have that much of a trackrecord, and his scores are somewhat...mediocre.
Just corious
SFT
posted 09-09-1999 09:00 AM PT (US) 
Audacity

OscarŪ Winner

I thought we were treating this as the three composers we like best. I for one don't care who the three greatest composers of all time are or were. It is interesting however to hear which composers people like best. I unlike SFT
can admit that my favorite composer isn't the greatest composer in the world he is just the one that I like the best. JNH's music connects with me personally better than any other composer, which is probably the case with Sebulba and David Arnold's music.Audacity
posted 09-09-1999 12:09 PM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

I DO think Elfman is the best composer in the world...ever. But that isīnt something Iīm intirely willing to explain further, because all of you have allready heard why millions of times.
Besides, I just wanted Sebulba to tell me why he chose Arnold. Maybe he has a very convincing argument....I donīt know.SFT
PS: Who says your favorite composer isīnt the best in the world ever? It depends on your opinion...and everyone has their own opinion.
NP: The Fugitive Complete Score, James Newton Howard
posted 09-09-1999 12:50 PM PT (US) 
robin4

OscarŪ Winner

1. Williams2. Silvestri
3. Arnold/Zimmer/Poledouris
N.P. Stargate <****/*****>
[This message has been edited by robin4 (edited 09-09-99).]
posted 09-09-1999 03:45 PM PT (US) 
Aaron Collins

OscarŪ Winner

I would say my favorite composers in rank would be:1. John Williams
2. Miklos Rosza
3. Jerry Goldsmith
Williams music is probably the most recognized music from any modern day composer. He adds so much complexity and depth to every score he writes.
Rosza is amazing! I love all his work. He writes some of the most fanfaric work I have ever heard.
Goldsmith is a great prolific composer. He writes scores to many many movies. His scores are adrenaline pumping and always have a good theme!
Aaron
NP: Prince Valiantposted 09-13-1999 08:10 PM PT (US) 
SEBULBA

OscarŪ Winner

SFT,David Arnold may not have a track record, or even write music that is as complex or emotional as others. I guess the reason I like his music so much is because I really like brass, and I like his use of it. ID4 has some really great powerfull brass sections. His music is pretty big, orchestrally. Again, with ID4, some of the French Horn cues really put the musicians to the test. That's all. Just my own personal opinion. And I don't think he's one of the greatest of all time, he's just one of my faves.
Sebulba
posted 09-13-1999 08:29 PM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

OscarŪ Winner

My three:1. James Horner/John Williams (A tie
)2. Hans Zimmer/Mark Mancina (Another tie
)3. Hans Zimmer
--Crono/Kyp
Writer/Director/Producer[This message has been edited by Crono/Kyp (edited 09-14-99).]
posted 09-14-1999 07:06 PM PT (US) 
Scott

OscarŪ Winner

John Williams
Jerry Goldsmith
Bernard Herrmann
posted 09-16-1999 07:50 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

OscarŪ Winner

SFT- I just wish you would label the "elfman as best composer in the world" statement solely as YOUR opinion. It makes us think that YOU think that your preference ranks higher than anyone elses, and that's a good way to lose conversational interest. Just accept people for what they like. I for one think Goldsmith is the best... but that is my opinion. In MY world, he IS the best. In my cousin's world, he could care less - Backstreet Boys and *NSync are for him. BrettJames likes Debney the most, though Goldsmith is one of his favorites as well. Michel (Saucier) LOVES Christopher Franke's music... that's HER opinion and preference. I respect it and encourage her individualism. It's what makes us who we are. Get my point?Here are my top three (for now):
Jerry Goldsmith
David Arnold
Trevor JonesThose last two composer slots change frequently from week to week.
~Jeron
[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 09-16-99).]
posted 09-16-1999 12:13 PM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

Jeron,
Have I ever said that my opinion ranks higher than anyon elses here? No...I respect everyone here and their right to have their own opinion. Iīm really sorry if you misunderstood me...I have allways said that "elfman is the best composer in the world" is my own opinion and if I remember correctly, Iīve never tried to "force" it on anyone here...SFT
NP: Sci-Fiīs Greatests Hits - Defenders of Justice
posted 09-16-1999 12:27 PM PT (US) 
Matt

OscarŪ Winner

Well, MY opinion is ranked higher than everyone elses!! MUHUHAHAHAHA!! I say that the best 3 composers are:
Horner-Braveheart, Glory, Titanic
Williams-Schindler's List, Jaws
Thomas Newman-Shawshank RedemptionAnd since I am right and you are all wrong, there can be no dispute.
Oh, and favorite vs best is different. My favorite movie is either The Matrix, or The Rock, but Godfather Pt II is the best movie ever made. The same is true for scores. Ive loved some of Elfman's scores, and Edward Scissorhands was wonderful, do i consider him the best? NO. Why? because his style is too recognizable, too continuous throughout his work. Im not picking on you SFT, that was just the example i used. His scores, however, work very well in the movies and so while i do not consider him to be the best, i consider him to be an excellent composer. Ive got homework, so im not gonna go into this anymore, but let me say this...saying that your favorite composer is the best, is sort of arrogant. Why is he the best? has he(or she) shown versatility, emotion, power in his scores? and most importantly, did these scores work extremely well with the movies? These traits are what make a composer the best. Like who you want, reward who deserves it.
And, Like I said, I am God so none of you foolish mortals may disagree, or I will smite thee.posted 09-16-1999 04:28 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

OscarŪ Winner

HAHAHA... that's great Matt, ummm... I mean god. No, I won't get into THAT dispute. Very funny, though. I laughed for a good few minutes - sarcasm is great.SFT, I'm going to say I have to agree with everything Matt said. Elfman's a very versitile composer - I really think he has a lot of talent, having shown excellence in both film scoring and leading Oingo Boingo. I do agree w/ the arrogancy issue, and I'm sure you don't mean to come across that way. It's just an observation, correct it if ya want to. Let's all be happy, smiley care bears here. =)
Care bears, stare!!!!
Jeron[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 09-16-99).]
posted 09-16-1999 04:36 PM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

Dear God,I hate myself for doing this, but Iīm afaid Iīm going to have to disagree totally with you on this one...
Elfman is too recognizable?! That has got to be "The Joke of The Year". Look at the uge differences between scores like Wisdom, Batman, Dolores Claiborne, Sommersby and Hot to Trot. Sure he has his own trademarks ect. but so has every composer. EVEN (gosh!) Horner. You should know that.As for the part about my being arrogant...well, Iīm sorry if I seem that way, but I canīt really put my finger on what exactly it is I have said, that has lead you to believe that my opinion should rank higher than anyone elses. Maybe God can give me some guidance?
SFT
NP: The Day The Earth Stood Still, Bernard Herrmann
[This message has been edited by SFT (edited 09-17-99).]
posted 09-17-1999 12:50 AM PT (US) 
Matt

OscarŪ Winner

The problem with Elfman is this: After the first 5 notes I will immediately stand up and say "That's Elfman!" and ill be right. the scores are different, as are all scores(with a few exceptions), but the underlying Eflman quality is the same. The problem with Elfman is that he always sounds like Elfman. Im not slamming him when i say this, but it is something that keeps me from cinsidering him the best. When he does something where i never knew he did it til he came up and accepted the award(This is what happened with Schindler's List. This score was so unlike Williams' past work that i never knew it was him.) Then i will put Elfman up there.
Im not trying to say that you are arrogant SFT, im sorry if it came off that way. Most people think that their favorite whatever is the best, i dont consider them arrogant, i consider that opinion arrogant. Why should your favorite be the best? Why cant someone else who you like but do not like as much as your favorite be the best? I love Zimmer, I love Elfman, more than i like Williams for that matter. But i do not consider either to be the best(though with TRL, Zimmer is moving up).
As for you disputing me: YOU'RE GOING TO HELL BOY! MHUHHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted 09-18-1999 12:51 PM PT (US) 
J. Peter Wolk-Laniewski

OscarŪ Winner

I'm sure everyone here doesn't mean to come across as hostile, but the posts are starting to head in that general direction, so I'm going to be the peacemaker and suggest that we all just politely drop the whole arrogancy debate. It's clear that those involved are adamant about their positions, and given the personal nature of the topic I think it might be better if we left it as it is. I'm probably wrong about this whole thing and I'm sure it's none of my business, but I'd hate for someone to misinterpret someone else's statement because I really hate conflict.
posted 09-18-1999 03:21 PM PT (US) 
James

OscarŪ Winner

I had originally wanted to let out a lot of anger here, but rather, I think J. Peter is right. Let's all bring out Rudy and relax.
James
NP - A Patch of Blue (*****)posted 09-18-1999 09:51 PM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

I donīt have Rudy...
posted 09-19-1999 06:41 AM PT (US) 
Matt

OscarŪ Winner

Im not getting hostile. SFT, are you getting hostile?
I dont have Rudy either, so there. THBBBBBT.
posted 09-19-1999 01:10 PM PT (US) 
Scott

OscarŪ Winner

You guys don't have Rudy?
It's still widely available, you should defenetley get it, it's one of Goldsmith's best. And, if you guys had it, you might be able to get along better :-).
posted 09-19-1999 05:07 PM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

No Matt, Iīm not getting hostile....in fact, Iīm in a really good mood....I think Iīll put on Dolores Claiborne and have a laugh or two.

SFT
posted 09-20-1999 05:50 AM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

Matt, by the way,I donīt agree that Elfman has never done a score witch doesīnt "sound like him" but just for the sake of argument, how does it make a composer better if he composes a score that doesīnt sound like him? I mean, you make it sound like Williams is a better composer than Elfman simply because he wrote Schindlers List. No offence, Schindlers List is a superb score ect, but it isīnt "original" other than in the sense, that it wasīnt something Williams had done before.
So, just as an example, if Elfman wrote something that sounded like nothing he had ever done before, say...something that sounded like Horner, would that make him a better composer? No. Look at Bernard Herrmann. He created some of the best scores EVER and they all sounded "Herrmannish" although they where diffent in style. He never composed one sigle score that "didīnt sound like him" and many people still consider him the best filmcomposer of all time.
You see, Herrmannīs style and compositional approach was original enough in itself, as is Elfmanīs.SFT
NP: The 7th Voyage of Sinbad, Bernard Herrmann, ****/*****
posted 09-20-1999 11:35 AM PT (US) 
Matt

OscarŪ Winner

No No, what im saying is that he should do something that while original, doesnt sound like an Elfman score. I say Williams is better because he has a long track record of great scores(many of which sound like his last scores, all of which sound like famous pieces of classical music), all of which worked extremely well in the movies. Remember the Jaws theme? Star Wars? Cant argue with that. Then he does Schindler's List, a truly magnificent score, and that A: doesnt sound like his other scores, and B: wasnt stolen from classical music.
Once Elfman does a score better than Schindler's List, one that doesnt sound anything like Batman, Edward Scissorhands(incredible score, btw..been trying to get it for a while), or MIB. THEN I will consider him a great composer.
Dont get me wrong, i love Elfman, and if i were ranking composers he would be very high on the list.
As for Hermann, he is considered one of the best because in a time where film music sounded just like all other film music, he came up with something original. A style all his own. Back then that was incredible, and now it is good, but a composer must sometimes show that he can break from that style.
posted 09-20-1999 01:32 PM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

Matt,I still donīt agree. It really doesīnt sound like you have heard very much of Elfmanīs music (although Iīm certian you have) saying that you will consider him great when he writes something that doesīnt sound like Batman or Edward Scissorhands. Do I really have to, ONCE GAIN, remind you that he has written other scores AFTER 1993? LISTEN to them for Gods sake man!...Oh, I forgot you ARE God
I would bet every penny I have that if you didīnt see the credits you would have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA that he guy ho wrote Batman also wrote Hot to Trot or Dolores Claiborne..or Mission: Impossible and Mars Attacks!...or Sommersby and Widsom.....or The Simpsons Theme and Midnight Run....or Beetlejuice and Good Will Hunting...
I guess this is just a basic diffence in opinons. Maybe we should start a topic called "What Makes A Composer Great?"
Never the less, no point in arguing about it really....
SFT
[This message has been edited by SFT (edited 09-20-99).]
posted 09-20-1999 02:10 PM PT (US) 
Matt

OscarŪ Winner

Sorry, I knew he wrote all those as the first chord of music came on. They dont sound just like eachother, thats not what im saying. They do sound like Elfman though. Especially Dolores Claiborne, Beetlejuice, Mars Attacks, Good Will Hunting, and the Simpsons. Thats my point. All his scores sound like Elfman. He is TOO recognizable.
I dont remember Hot To Trot, since i skipped that movie(im sorry, a MR Ed rip-off isnt my bag, baby).
Sommersby was a little different as a recall, but it still sounded like Elfman.
Im not saying that he is a poor composer because his scores sound distinct to him. The opening note of A Simple Plan told me it was Elfman. The score to that movie was superb. Im just saying that before he becomes great in my eyes, he is gonna have to suprise me.
posted 09-21-1999 11:29 AM PT (US) 
James

OscarŪ Winner

I feel like joining a debate, and this is a good one to join. I'm afraid I am inclined to agree with SFT. I still remember how shocked I was when I first heard Hot To Trot. If you haven't heard it, it's definitely worth finding a sound clip for. If someone played it for me before I new what it was, I wouldn't even have guessed it was film music. Matt, have you gone to Filmtracks and listened to the preview of Anywhere But Here? It sounds more like Sheryl Crow than any film music I've heard in a while! Perhaps you should invest in Elfman's first compilation, "Music For A Darkened Theatre Volume One," there are a good number of tracks which surprised me. Midnight Run, The Jar, Wisdom, and Face Like a Frog are all totally different from anything else Elfman has done. Or, you can go to the "Music For A Darkened People" web site and listen to the sound clips. I don't know the address, but SFT should.James
NP - The Matrix (*****)[This message has been edited by James (edited 09-21-99).]
posted 09-21-1999 07:00 PM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

Thanks James
Finally someone agrees with me...Matt, as you probably realized your theory is very...what shall I say...opinion based in a way...I mean...just because you think Schindlers List doesīnt sound like Williams it doesīnt mean other do not. I for one think itīs certainly not a "typical" Williams score, but it does sound like Williams...for me, every Williams score sounds like Williams...every Elfman score sounds like Elfman...every Newman score sounds like Newman...every Goldsmith score sounds like Goldsmith and so on.
The fact is, that every compser has their own little trademnarks and no matter HOW ORIGINAL and different one of their scores are, it will still "sound" like them.SFT
NP: The Shining, Nicholas Pike ***/*****
posted 09-22-1999 12:57 AM PT (US) 
Matt

OscarŪ Winner

SFT, if you sit there and tell me that you really think Schindler's List sounds ANYTHING like Jurassic Park, Star Wars, or Jaws, then i will either call you deaf or a liar. Let me put it this way...without foreknowledge that Williams does all of Speilberg's films, and that he did Schindler's....you wouldnt have thought it was williams to hear the score. Elfman on the other hand has a VERY distinctive style. It is also a great, original style that he uses well(though i honestly thought it was wrong for Good Will Hunting, except for a few parts), but it is still very distinctive and this is the only flaw i can find in his composing. That and the fact that that he has never done a score that made me sit up and say "WOW, what an amazing, incredible, etc etc etc, score!"(Edward Scissorhands coming close). Williams has, Newman has, and Horner has.
Oh, and all comments here are opinion based, unless you consider your opinion fact, which gets us back to that whole opinion debate we abandoned earlier.James: If i listen to any of Elfman's scores, i will know in teh first few seconds he did it. Nothing will shock me. sorry. Interesting that you named a bunch of movies no one has seen, nor would have any want to. Hot to Trot SUCKED ASS, so why the hell would i go buy the score?
As for compilations, ive never liked them because they are played differently from how the music was heard in the movie. I buy movie scores because i liked the way they sound in a movie...i dont want some new take on them(The Aliens trilogy CD pissed me off...the timing was all off on the best part.) If you burn me a copy of Edward Scissorhands we can talk though
You want another composer who deviated from his style? Try Zimmers Thin Red Line. Far different from his other scores. Elfman has never deviated like that.posted 09-22-1999 12:48 PM PT (US) 
Scott

OscarŪ Winner

Matt,
I think what SFT and everyone else is saying, is that one can detect Williams' style in Schindeler's (just a bit of it at least). Naturally it doesn't sound anything like Jurrassic Park, yet one can come to the conclusion that it is a score composed by Williams if one didn't know who composed it in the first place.
In essence we are talking about style here. Beethoven had a style so did Mozart, Mahler, Schubert, Copeland etc.
Writers have certain style,singers etc.etc.
While Schindler's List sounds nothing like other Williams' scores, it does contain certain elements that make this his work, that one can hear it is a Williams score.
so, again, we are talking style more than anything else.
By the way, I do not detect as much of Elfman's style in Good Will Hunting as I do in Black Beauty.Scott
posted 09-22-1999 01:04 PM PT (US) 
James

OscarŪ Winner

You did not have to start using profanity. All that ever does is get people angrier and make you seem hostile.For the record, the compilation I mentioned contains the ORIGINAL RECORDINGS, all of them taken FROM THE ORIGINAL SCORES. I personally cannot hear any of Elfman's style in Hot To Trot or Midnight Run. And more for the record, I have not seen any of these movies either... nor do I want to. I heard them all on the compilation.
I also feel that I could have guessed John Williams for Schindler's List, and within ten guesses. I would not have been able to guess Danny Elfman within ten guesses of Hot to Trot, Midnight Run, or especially the upcoming Anywhere But Here (which I really think you should go to www.filmtracks.com and listen to).
Just a thought now... perhaps i should respond to the actual topic... here's my "Top 3" list:
1. Goldsmith
2. Herrmann
3. ElfmanBut this list doesn't correspond to my "favorite" composers.
James
[This message has been edited by James (edited 09-22-99).]
posted 09-22-1999 01:33 PM PT (US) 
Matt

OscarŪ Winner

Profanity? Im sorry James, i often forget that people who cannot stand to see the word ass are on this board, i'll curb my mild use of language(that many tv stations find exceptable) in the future.(That was hostile by the way, though my original usage was not)
Ten guesses? Of course you could have gotten it in 10 guesses, there are only 10 composers working that are worth noting. Name 5 composers, ill bet Williams just happened to be on that list, prolly one of the first names to come to mind. It would not take me 10 guesses to guess Elfman though. It would take one.
As for going to filmtracks..ill wait til i see the movie and get back to you, i like my first exposure to a score to be in its element, the movie it was written for.
posted 09-22-1999 11:19 PM PT (US) 
Matt

OscarŪ Winner

Profanity? Im sorry James, i often forget that people who cannot stand to see the word ass are on this board, i'll curb my mild use of language(that many tv stations find exceptable) in the future.(That was hostile by the way, though my original usage was not)
Ten guesses? Of course you could have gotten it in 10 guesses, there are only 10 composers working that are worth noting. Name 5 composers, ill bet Williams just happened to be on that list, prolly one of the first names to come to mind. It would not take me 10 guesses to guess Elfman though. It would take one.
As for going to filmtracks..ill wait til i see the movie and get back to you, i like my first exposure to a score to be in its element, the movie it was written for.
posted 09-22-1999 11:26 PM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

Matt, maybe we should go out and get Rudy?
Anyway, I donīt want to discuss this further because I would just be repeating what has allready been said.
SFT
NP: Alien Resurrection, John Frizzel ***/*****
posted 09-23-1999 02:43 AM PT (US) 
SFT

OscarŪ Winner

BTW:"Ten guesses? Of course you could have gotten it in 10 guesses, there are only 10 composers working that are worth noting. Name 5 composers, ill bet Williams just happened to be on that list, prolly one of the first names to come to mind."
Matt, what seems to be the fatal mistake in your point of view is that, that statement could just as well be used the other way around. Just wanted to point that out.

SFT
posted 09-23-1999 01:05 PM PT (US) 
Matt

OscarŪ Winner

dont quite follow you there SFT. How could it be turned around. You could claim that of course i can guess Elfman in 10, since he is a noted composer, which is a valid claim. The problem is that i wasnt the one who said ten guesses, i didnt even say i would guess. I just said i would know. So how could it be turned around?
Anyway, as for the rest of the arguement..i agree, why continue? It started because you thought that i was disputing your claim that elfman is the best. I wasnt, all i was doing is giving reasons why I didnt think he was.
anyway...anyone got a copy of Rudy they can burn for me?
posted 09-23-1999 03:40 PM PT (US) 
Scott

OscarŪ Winner

Matt,
why don't you just buy Rudy. It's still widely availabel and it's worth having.
But if you're willing to wait a month (that's when I get my own burner), I'll burn a copy for you.Scott
posted 09-23-1999 06:04 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
