MovieMusic.com Message Boards: Danny Elfman

Message Boards

Movie Soundtracks

Danny Elfman

Archive of old forum. No more postings.

Please visit our new forum, The MovieMusic Lobby, to post new topics.

Author	Topic: Danny Elfman

SFT Oscar® Winner	Some of you may have noticed that I´m a big Danny Elfman fan. When it comes to moviescores, no one can do a better job than him, I think. But why is it that Williams, Goldsmith and Horner fans always redicule him? No one has done so on this messageboard yet, but I get it all the time. I´ve even heard it said that he does´nt even compose his own themes. Come on!!! So if there is anybody here who has the same opinion about Elfman and his fans, lets have a little discussion about it, instead of hiding. Maybe you think I´m being just a little bit agressiv, but I´m a little tired of hearing Elfman being put down by someone who, in all likelyhood(?) has´nt even taken the time to listen to his work. Maybe we Elfman fans are weird, but so what?(!)
posted 04-14-1999 12:31 PM PT (US)

Kevin Oscar® Winner	You're right. Elfman fans are wierd. Seriously, I wonder hwo you've been talking to who ridicules Elfman? Sure, he's a bit off in some of his work, but that's his style. I think why the other fans you speak of put down Danny is because he started out as a rock musician, and then ventured in to film scoring. His approach to scoring is different than some of his contemporaries, but others have crossed over as well. Take Mark Knopfler for example. You don't see people jumping on him, mainly because is music in "in the mainstream" so to speak. You also have to take into account that Elfman, in the era of film scoring, is a relative newcomer. he doesn't have the track record of Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, Shifrin, etc. Despite that, he has been up for an Oscar, and there hasn't been a fair representation of composers in that catagory (I blame the Academy. I told that to a friend of mine who's boss is a member.) Be patient. People who don't like/understand him will probably come around eventually. Those that don't haven't given him a fair chance. I've also found that the people who like Elfman and the newer composers are of the younger crowd. That might have something to do with it as well. Some of us old people have been familiar with Williams et. al. for decades (It would be interesting to see a demographical breakdown of the age of fans who like certain composers.) You want to talk about ridicule? How about all the people dumping on Horner? I don't know if you read r.m.m., but over there it was Horner-bashing time all of last year, due to the success of "Titanic." But we want to keep the discussions on here above board, so I won't go into that. Don't worry about what others think of Elfman. If you like him, be satisfied. Kevin NP - Hoosiers (Goldsmith) [This message has been edited by Kevin (edited 04-14-99).]
posted 04-14-1999 04:13 PM PT (US)

S Smith unregistered	Elfman's style is pretty cool. I don't think I'd buy ALL of his stuff. But I gotta say, one of my favorite Elman scores has GOT to be "Freeway." That was a somewhat bizzare score for a somewhat bizzare movie. I don't think there was a release for it though. Only a couple of cues on "...Darkened Theater II."
posted 04-14-1999 04:21 PM PT (US)

Gae Oscar® Winner	Kevin, you raised an interesting point about the differences in age relating to the kind of music we like or listen to. I agree with you. I was suprised to find out that a lot of the fans on this page are under 18 and so obviously are more interested generally in the newer breed of composers like Elfman,Zimmer,Horner etc. I nominate that as well as using the NP tag we should also write our age. Does that sound "Ageist" (is there such a word?). It would be an interesting survey to find what age-group is listening to which composer etc! I'm sure there are also loads of the newer generation who like Steiner or Rozsa or Korngold etc. By the way I'm 34 and have been collecting soundtracks since I was 10. NP ST First Contact
posted 04-14-1999 04:30 PM PT (US)

Kevin Oscar® Winner	Gae, Why should film music be any different than other types of music? Before I start on this, let me tell you that I'm just a few years older than you - 36. Now, take "popular" music. The groups that are popular today I have no interest in, and even though I've heard their stuff on the radio, it just doesn't do it for me. I listen to "classic" rock on the radio, and of my CD collection, there isn't anything from a group newer than the past decade or so. I listen to Rush, Yes, ELP, etc. (I also like country and classical music as well). So I'm in the dark when kids today talk about how great "so-and-so" group is. I admit it - I'm an old guy who's set in my tastes. This has to be the same with film scores. I didn't start out when I was 10, like you, but I did start out young. I've got Rozsa, Tiomkin, Steiner, etc. in my LP collection from years ago. Heck, when I found Korngold's "Adventures of Robin Hood" (w/ Errol FLynn) on CD years ago I jumped for joy! How many of today's younger listers would do that? Now, if they're really into scores, they will know who Korngold is. But the tendancy of many young film score fans is to ignore the composers who were around before they were born, or when they were younger. I've got a young friend (in university) who really doesn't think John Williams is that good. I say "huh?" and he comes back with "well, such-and-such (insert newer composer name here) did this-and-that, which is much better than Williams. See, that's relative youth not understanding the richness and diversity of film music. Now, I'm not trying to get down on kids. I just think they don't really appreciate the older music and genres. I wonder if we could set up some kind of survey on here regarding ages and preferences. Heck, Just get a count of your CD collection of the composers you have, and break it down. You know, all this oldster talk is making me feel old. I think I'll put in Iron Butterfly and listen to In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida. Kevin
posted 04-14-1999 07:25 PM PT (US)

S Smith unregistered	Interesting point Kevin. And I agree. I think what the new generation of film score fans need to remember is that people like Herrman, Korngold, Williams, Goldsmith, etc. pioneered film music. And before film there was Mahler, Beethoven et al. I don't believe that you can pay tribute to the likes of Elfman, Zimmer and the "new" composers without first giving true credit to the people that made film music what it is today. And that's not to knock the newer composers because I like a lot of their music. By the way, I'm 24 (if anyone cares).
posted 04-14-1999 09:29 PM PT (US)

SFT Oscar® Winner	Thanks for all the responeses. Regarding the age of moviemusic fans, I´m only 15 years old, so you might have a point that it´s mostly young people who really love Elfman, Zimmer ect. But I also have very great admiration for composers like Steiner and Herrmann. I actually own ten or so of Herrmann´s scores, and in my opinion, no other composer has had more influence on the filmmusic we hear today. Eventhough I think Eflman is better when it comes to composing, Herrmann is difinitly the second best. And lets not forget that one of Elfman´s main influences actually is Herrmann. I think young score-fans are very aware of some of the older composers, and I do think that the 40´s and 50´s were the two best decades in filmscoring up to the 90´s. Now, I have´nt been collecting moviescores for a very long time, but I do credit myself of being one of those who can apriciate the work of people who lived even before I was born. They all deserve our respect. SFT [This message has been edited by SFT (edited 04-15-99).]
posted 04-15-1999 10:43 AM PT (US)

pietari Oscar® Winner	I have never been able to gain appreciation for the so-called Golden Age of film music, mainly A.Newman, Korngold etc. Idon`t know what it is, but the music just doesn`t do anything for me. I do appreciate a lot of Herrmann`s work from the 50`s on and Franz Waxman`s Taras Bulba has a celebritory quality to it that I enjoy, but that`s about it. I`m 22 and got into film music when I was 13. The score that did it for me was of course Batman. Later on I developed a taste for Zimmer, Goldsmith etc. It does seem indeed that most film musci fans get introduced to it by the works of Zimmer et al. But I would say that Elfman`s relatively new experimental style will be hard put to draw in newcomers, even I find it irritating. I still wish Elfman would return to the pre 1994 era, though i respect his decision for experimentation. Simply put, not many `new` composers would have the balls to do that. Pietari NP- Haunted Summer by C. Young
posted 04-15-1999 12:17 PM PT (US)

Magdi Oscar® Winner	Gae, Kevin, your theory regarding age sounds interesting. I'm 32 and collecting since I've been 15. I like a lot of stuff from younger composers (Elfman, Zimmer, Thomas Newman...) but there's so much great music by Herrmann, Korngold, Newman, Waxman, Rozsa, Prokofiev...
posted 04-15-1999 03:45 PM PT (US)

Steph1 unregistered	The only prob I have with Danny Elfman is that I dont really believe that his scores really contain much feeling, which is what makes me love Horner,Hirschfelder and Newman among others. I think the most beautiful film scores are ones that ring true to the emotion in the movie.
posted 04-15-1999 04:37 PM PT (US)

Matt Oscar® Winner	Im a big Horner fan, so let me say that your weird, Elfman sucks!!! Seriously, i love Elfman.....I think he got screwed by the academy this year, as A Simple Plan is one of his best scores to date. The theme to Batman is one of my favorite themes of all time. His music is a bit weirder than most, but it fits the movies that he scores...and that is really the whole purpose of scores. Im not sure who ridicules him, but ignore them, as they are fools(even my fellow Horner Fans). BTW, im 18, and i have been into scores since I was a baby. My parents would play Star Wars on vinyl, and it got me to stop crying without fail. I do like the new scoring style better than the old. With the exception of some herrmann scores(psycho, and the like, did i spell his name right?) i think that the newer style works better in movies. A lot of older scores are distracting, and often do nothing to enhance a scene. Oh, I recently asked my mom who her favorite composer is(shes a big movie buff, like me) and she picked Horner as well. She's 47, older than the lot of you...age means nothing people, it's all taste and exposure.
posted 04-15-1999 05:37 PM PT (US)

Gae Oscar® Winner	God, I love this site!!!!! We start off talking about Danny Elfman and end up talking about the History of Film Music with Korngold, Herrmann, Rozsa etc. Its nice to know that not everyones only into Horner or Zimmer etc. What would I do if I didn't have you fellow lovers of great music around to pass the hours away. Probably listen to more music and carry on trying to compose my own. Anyway concerning the person's 47 year old mum(sorry I cant read your'e name from here)....I think the fact that Titanic is topical and "flavour of the month" etc has a lot to do with her probably liking it,just like many others. Its a good score no doubt but if I put it up to some of my all time favourite soundtracks it probably would'nt even get in the Top 20! Now thats going to start a debate off!.....and I'm not Horner bashing I just think the film and score were overrated! Gae
posted 04-15-1999 06:02 PM PT (US)

Kevin Oscar® Winner	Gae, I think the reason that "Titanic" did so well on the charts was that Celine Dion song. Without it, the music probably wouldn't have gotten the attention it did. My reasoning? The demographics of the moviegoers. I had heard of young girls who saw that movie over 50 times! Geez! It wasn't that good of a film, IMO. As to the score, many of us score buffs would have picked it up anyway, but it's the teenage-girl set that is mainly responsible (I think) for the score being the big seller it was. Personally, I have my CD player programmed to skip that song, and just play the score. Kevin NP - Henry V (Doyle)
posted 04-15-1999 06:50 PM PT (US)

Matt Oscar® Winner	Gae: actually she cited Aliens and Braveheart, as well as Glory for her reasoning, Titanic hadnt been released yet(Recently is really about a year and a half ago, hehe) as for ranking, if you check my post in the Horner section of composers, you can see that, but Titanic is on there. I think its one of the best scores he has written. oh, and i HATE the song as for Kevin's point: You have good reasoning, but I know for a fact that the song was not the reason so many people bought the CD(I have sources on this, polls ive seen in random magazines last year, etc) Oh, great score(Henry V) Np: The Saint(Greame Revell)
posted 04-15-1999 07:28 PM PT (US)

SFT Oscar® Winner	Steph 1, are you completely gone?(!) How can you say that Elfman´s music is´nt emotional? Just look at stuff like Edward Scissorhands, Sommersby and Black Beauty. Maybe you do not know very much of his scores, but that is´nt an excuse. Elfman is wierd, yes, but he has also shown that he can write highly emotional music, and that he is one of the most innovativ and divers composers in the world. It just takes a little while to accept is style, wich is, unlike Horner´s, much more original. Generally, I think Elfman puts alot more effort into giving his music the right effect of screen, than any other composer, wich also is a good listening experience by itself; and lets face it: It is realativly easy for a composer to write a good theme, and then just use it over and over again during the movie with a few variations. After a while it gets rather boring. What I like so much about Elfman, is, that he allways comes up with new ideas. Some of them may be better than others, but he has never, in my opinion, composed a bad score. And that, in my opinion, is why he is the best composer and the biggest talent. Lets not forget the fact, that he is´nt even "educated" within the music-buisness. And he is still one of the best. I mean, when it comes to composing for movies in Hollywood who gets the most work: 1. Williams 2. Goldsmith 3. Elfman. That is´nt my idea of who is the best, but simply what the ratings are, when it comes to popularity with the directors and companies, Fox and Warner...ect. SFT [This message has been edited by SFT (edited 04-16-99).]
posted 04-16-1999 03:00 AM PT (US)

pietari Oscar® Winner	I would have to agree with Matt that the song was not the main reason for Titanic cd:s success, after all they could have just bouught the single or the Celine Doin album. But the score wasn`t the only reason either. Sure, lots of people loved the music, but some also bought it as a sort memorabilia from the film. But the music had a huge part in its success, just look at the renewed success of BRaveheart and More music from Braveheart Pietari NP-Tom and Viv by Debbie Wiseman
posted 04-16-1999 04:13 AM PT (US)

Matt Oscar® Winner	SFT: im not sure where you get those stats....Horner gets more business than Elfman, and Williams only works nowadays when Spielberg is doing a film, so he isnt doing that much(except for TPM). And Zimmer is doing a shi*load as well...lets not forget that he has no formal training either. I also have to agree with Steph1...Both Williams and Horner give more emotional scores than Elfman. Dont get me wrong, Elfman does as well, sometimes more than others, but not as much. His music is effective on a different level,take A Simple Plan(Am I the only one who thinks that it's one of his best?), That score really sets up tension and feeling for the piece, it gives an emotional connection, but in a different way than, say, Braveheart or Schindler's List. Dont jump on someone just because you dont agree with them(not that i EVER do that...hum dee dum...).
posted 04-16-1999 09:42 AM PT (US)

SFT Oscar® Winner	Well, I do love these discussions we have, but what it all comes down to, is taste. I think Eflman is the best, you think Horner is the best and another one thinks Williams is the best. It´s a matter of wich one of them speaks to us, if you can put it like that. I don´t think you can say that one composers music is more emotional than anothers, because we all have diffrent ways of interpreting emotion. But I would like to say, that no one in the world can convinse(?)me that there is a more sad score than Edward Scissorhands. It really nails the emotional state of the caracters to the wall (can you even say that?). So much so, that it at times gets rather depressing. I think that it is clear proof, that Elfman is a composer who takes the time to understand the emotional aspects of the movie, before he creates the score and then incorporates these emotions into his music. Not saying that other composers don´t do that, but I just think he´s better at it. Again, a matter of taste. SFT PS: Now, I don´t want to hear another soul say that Elfman can´t write emotional music, because he CAN, and anyone who does´nt think so, really should hear some more of his work.
posted 04-16-1999 12:17 PM PT (US)

Matt Oscar® Winner	Edward Scissorhands is a brilliant score, very emotional, and haunting as well. But there are better, more emotional scores out there, like Schindler's List, sadder, emotional...brilliant. I consider it to be Williams' best work, and also the best score ever written. I consider Schindler's List to be one of the greatest movies ever made, second only to the first two Godfathers, and the score played a big part in it.
posted 04-16-1999 02:10 PM PT (US)

SFT Oscar® Winner	I repeat: A matter of taste
posted 04-16-1999 02:20 PM PT (US)

LesterMoos unregistered	Ok, I'm going to dare to say something about Elfman. He is my least favorite composer-not because I don't think he's any good-but because I just don't care for his style. The scores by Elfman that I do like are ones that nobody else seems too. I guess I'm just a freak. My one and only Elfman score is Article 99. I just love the main theme that runs through it. It's just moves me. Can't explain it. Ok, there's my take on Elfman. And by the way I'm 23.
posted 04-16-1999 02:23 PM PT (US)

SFT Oscar® Winner	As said before LesterMoos (great name by the way): It´s a matter of taste. But, I think if you would try to listen to more of his music, you would at some point find something just as great as Article 99 or even better, that fits your own taste.(How about Black Beeuty?) He is a very divers composer. Not all of his stuff is weird. SFT [This message has been edited by SFT (edited 04-16-99).]
posted 04-16-1999 02:32 PM PT (US)

LesterMoos unregistered	Thank you. I don't think all of his stuff is weird. Leslie
posted 04-17-1999 07:06 AM PT (US)

Old Infopop Software by UBB