NP: Nothing by Doyle or any other pretender to the throne

You're entitled to your opinion, but I have to disagree with your description of Sir William Walton's score for Olivier's Henry V.

IMO, it's 10 times better than Doyle's. I listened to Walton's themes for more than a decade, had it stolen, finally found another copy, then searched for years until I had a good copy to listen to on my CD player.

I listened to Doyle's work for a few weeks and wouldn't go back to it. It's nice, but it doesn't have "legs."

Herein is my opportunity to disagree with the Sir William Walton crowd, and throw my support in with the Doyle crowd. I certainly respect the Olivier version, as a Shakespearean scholar and general fan of things Shakespearean, however I am given to believe that just due to the fact that Branagh/Doyle's version came later that it lacks--or even falls short--of any artistic mastery worthy of Shakespeare, worthy of the big screen. Doyle contributes an amazing score which reflects the indominatible spirit within "Henry V", and is an incredible addition to Shakespeare's world on screen.

For what it's worth, I like Branaugh's interpretation over Olivier's, I just prefer Walton over Doyle.

It's not a question of age, it's a question of what I consider quality.

I've seen both films and own both scores. There are things I like in both films. The approaches are very different so it's almost like comparing apples and oranges. I think Branaugh gives the better performance and comes closer to the spirit of the play. I think Olivier's is more experimental, more "cinematic" as much as I hate to use that hard to define term, especially for a film that is set deliberately on a stage.

I think it's wonderful that we live in a world that such great works as Walton's Henry V can co-exist with Doyle's Henry V. They are both excellent scores, but, as Lou points out, they are very different.

I love listening to either one of them (I don't hear how anyone could be calling Walton's Harry "godawful," but I guess that's just another opinion), and I think it's great that I have the option.

In fact, I think I'm going to go play the suite from the Gerhardt CD right now...

I thank God above that we have them BOTH!

Perhaps, it would be a healthy exercise to examine both works, and to analyze each according to its accomplishments.

Haven't you ever seen Lust For Life where Anthony Quinn as Paul Gaughin gets into a bar brawl and just lights up at the idea of conflict, drama, and fists a flyin'? The town was dullsville for him before that.

Don't let the namby-pambies lead you down the path to the room of over-stuffed chairs with old geezer fish chips sporting earhorns. Get your blood up! Tell those Doyle-ies where to get off. How dare they insult the great fanfares and battle scenes, the choirs and scherzos of my man Bill W and not take flak for it. Feed the Fire! Fan the flames!

Swash, what kind of a Pirate Buccaneer are you? Raise the Jolly Roger. Watch some football. I don't know what to tell you.

NP: Arabian Adventure (Ken Thorne) It ain't over til the fat End Title female chorus sings.....

I am in pretty good company here...
Bernard Herrmann, Malcolm Arnold
thought (think) the same.

quote:

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Any other opinions? I can't believe JJH hasn't chimed in yet. In a two words, Doyle's first and best, although he has quite a bit of his own competition from his other scores. Buy it now and don't regret it!

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you want my opinion, then?

okay here it is:

Anyone who does not buy this score is an ass.

If you have seen the film, and refuse to buy it still, you are a complete ass.

and if you love Doyle's music in general, you are a complete ass/retard.

I would like thank Shaun Rutherford for helping me extend my vocabulary these last few months. he's so prim and proper, it's bound to rub off!

but excerpts of the score are only partly effective as a vaccine for your state assitude (proper medical term is Doylus filmscoritis assitosis).

Now, if you have these excerpts and are reasonably impressed with them, but do not buy the score, you are an ass. You are afflicted with the assitudinal virus, which seems to cause some hemhorraging in later stages.

If you have the excerpts and DO buy the score CD, then you are a healthy human and are not afflicted with the dreaded assitosis virus. You have been cured.

Preliminary research seems to indicate that this phenomenon is specifically targeted to Shakespearean film scores, namely Henry V, but some data suggest that Love's Labours Lost and Much Ado About Nothing might also have potential for assitudinal hemhorraging. Be on the look out!

Signed,

Dr. J
"No, I am not a Quack! Don't let those lawsuits fool you!"

In fact, I usually press the <<skip>> button when the excerpts come on.

Euthanasia is always an option. We can hire Daniel 2 to bore you to death.

C'est la vie! Probably wouldn't last that long anyway.

By the way, which recordings (on CD) of Walton's Henry V are the best? I need to get some of these in the store as soon as possible.

The "Henry V" suite takes up about 16 1/2 minutes of the 60 minute CD. The conductor, Andrew Litton deftly captures Walton's nuances that I'm familiar with on the vinyl alblum I own.

The other CD is a Varese-Sarabande offering titled "Prince and the Pauper." Unfortunately, conductor Charles Gerhardt provides an uninspired performance.

quote:

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Butt, if I die in 6 months, I'll never know if Doyle's "Henry V" has more legs than Walton's 50-year-old masterpiece

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are you calling me a butt?

hadn't much time lately. Just fly over
some newsgroups/boards at work. Walton
always gets me out of limbo!

He has a very special place in my musical
pantheon and he is one of the main heros
of Herrmann and Arnold, my favorite
composers.

Boy, I'd wish I had been in the Savile Club
in the 1960ies and hear all three talking
bullshit after too much red wine...

Regarding TAMAHINE, you are right as far
as I can see. British campus.

Pete,

There are many recordings and very different
suites of Walton's HENRY V.

The all time best, IMO, is the 1946 suite
with Laurence Oliver narrating. It just
contains ca. a third of the complete score,
but the performance, inspite of the
archaic sound, is unbelievable! A far
far better thing than the suites done
by Palmer or Mathieson, who both don't
use the original orchestrations.

It is currently available on an english
EMI CD with the Mathieson suites all
conducted by Sir William himself.

quote:

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Originally posted by Marc Flake:
Unfortunately, it's considered a classical music disc

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"Unfortunately"? I think this shows that the score is respected enough to be considered "classical music".

Doyle's Henry V is marketed by EMI like a regular "classical" release, too.

And while I don't know how many legs Doyle's score has, I know one thing for sure: It doesn't have eight of them, because in that case, I wouldn't dare come near it.

I learned this term in my Movie Appreciation class my senior year in college. It's "Variety-speak" meaning that a movie has the ability to last a long time at the box office -- a long-distance runner, so to speak as opposed to the sprinters that make money one weekend then fold. "Gone with the Wind" is said to have the longest legs of any movie ever made.

JJH: It takes one to know one

Marian: My use of the word "unfortunately" was unfortunate. I was thinking that one normally has to go to the classical music bins to listen to this fine score, rather than find it in the soundtrack bins. Also, PeterK may not want to market "Classical" discs in his MovieMusic store. Except for the Varese recording, all the "Henry V" music I've seen has been partnered with classical music. Indeed this says alot about the score's value, but it makes it difficult to find for those who don't know where to look.

Lou: The Walton conducted LP I have was produced by Seraphim. I have spent years fruitlessly looking for it's issue on CD. As far as my taste goes, it is the best. Also, I prefer the chorusless Agincourt Chorale, maybe because that is how I fell in love with it when I first heard it -- and I spent more than a decade listening to it this way. It was a little of a shock to here the choir on the Varese version. I thought I had the entire battle sequence on the Seraphim LP. Let me know if I'm wrong.

If you're on a budget it's a good deal.
And besides, you get to hear the other sides to the orchestras many of us are familiar with through film score recordings: City of Prague, RSNO, RPO, powerful Polish orchestras that work with the likes of Wojciech Kilar, etc...

Besides, Petey already sells Marco Polo CDs here.

The battle sequence I mentioned was a different and longer version from the suite version but as I said I don't know where it came from.

JJH mentions Naxos which reminds me that both Naxos and Chandos have a Henry V disc. There is some narration but there are still a great number of cues played without it. Carl Davis made a good recording of the suite w/out narration. There is even a version for Brass Band (!) which I own (!!) on ASV records.

Guenther--If I pick up the Olivier narrated Henry V (I used to see this on LP combined with readings from Hamlet too I believe), it also has the suite on it w/out narration? Did I get this correct? I have the 3 LP box of Richard III but I play a tape recorded straight from the film if I need the fix.

NP: Frances (John Barry)

the EMI CD in question
CDM 5 65007 2 "Scenes from Henry V, etc)
released in Summer of 2000 contains:

Richard III (Prelude) arr Mathieson
Richard III (Suite) arr Mathieson
Henry V (Suite) arr Mathieson
Spitfire Prelude and Fugue
(these are the 1964 EMI/Angel suites)
plus:
Henry V - Suite with Larry Olivier
narrating.

This is the complete 1946 set of 78'ies
this contains a lot more music than the
1950ies LP release.
Cues sans any narration include:
London 1600, The Globe Theatre, Battle
of Agincourt, Madrigal, Agincourt Song

All in the original orchestrations!!! No
tinkering from Mathieson or Palmer.

All has the Philharmonia Orchestra under
Sir William Walton.

The suite Carl Davis conducted is the
one compiled by Malcolm Sargent, wich
used to be the regulary done until 1964
when it was replaced by the Mathieson
suite. Charles Gerhardt did his own, so
did Stanley Black in the beginning but
changed to the Mathieson later on.

Naxos and Chandos use the Palmer Suite
but are a little different. The Brass
suite is derived from it.

Looks to me that the EMI CD is the one to get for the store for Walton purists. You could also get the Varesse Prince and the Pauper for those who like compilations with more variety.

And if you stock the EMI CD, I'll buy it!

Marc

It seems all other titles are available, including the Chandos and Naxos collections. I will eventually add Walton's Film Music Vol. 3 from Chandos, but there are quite a few others, too, including HENRY V (catalog number 8892).

Other observations:

Whoever dissed Gerhardt's suite of Walton's HENRY on "The Prince and the Pauper" has got a screw loose. No offense, but Gerhardt's Agincourt battle music is not only the most kick-ass rendition of said cue, but one of the most kick-ass battle cues ever.

All CD compilation re-recordings of Doyle's HENRY suck. Don't even bother with them. The conductors just don't get it. It all sounds like Cream of Wheat. They should go back to re-recording John Barry for the umpteenth time, it's apparently the only stuff they understand.

Simon Rattle's 1990 recording of Walton's Symphony No. 1 is terrific, and ferocious, and three-dimensional, and I can't help but wonder if working on Doyle's HENRY the year before fired his imagination a bit. I'm talking about the first movement.

I wish Doyle's HENRY V did not have "legs," that way, I wouldn't have to answer the repeated requests about sheet music for "Non Nobis Domine" from the general public who wish to use it for weddings, church services, choral competitions, marching bands, et cetera.

Amazon.co.uk and crotchet.co.uk list it.
Or order it directly from EMI: www.emiclassics.com

They all take credit cards so it should be
no problems to order from them.

For Peter K:
I think the Chandos/Marriner with the long
Palmer suite might be a good compromise.
The performance is brilliant, but the suite
is a bit problematic.