I hope I can put this gently, but, these are your exclusive views--especially regarding Goldsmith's scoring ability and talent. I can't, for instance, argue that Goldsmith is the best film composer "because I say so."

If only that did work, it would be much easier to convince people that we are right! (Or would it be harder?...)

Along with that, what is your film music theory? What makes FIRST KNIGHT a "*" score in more concrete terms?

I can't understand that at all. In terms of the score's tone alone, I find it far superior to the "*****" BRAVEHEART, with too much music too ethnic for its own good and so forth and so on.

Nothing in cinema, or in history, is that simple.

HAL 2000

Williams has produced much brilliant music for many classic movies.
Goldsmith has produced some brilliant music for very few classic movies.

Williams is known by the bulk of society.
Goldsmith is popular amongst soundtrack enthusiasts.

Bulldog

Yes, these are my exclusive views.

Tonight Show host Jay Leno does a weekly fill bit on his show where he walks the streets asking people the most obvious, simple questions. The average Joe or Jane on the street.

"Who is Vice President of the United States?"

Um, George Bush? And similar imbecilic responses to basic knowledge.

I would be willing to have all my teeth pulled with a dirty pair of pliers if any one of the average Joes could respond to what he thought of the film music of Williams, Zimmer, Horner. The average Joe follows the exploits of the latest Top 40 clone band or personality as far as "music" is concerned.

The only thing remarkable in pop music lately is Britney Spears' rear end. That is something the avg. Joe would have an opinion on.

As a test, my computer techie co-worker loves pulling pop stuff off Napster. He also likes the music from the Trek pictures, notably ST-TMP and ST II. So, I just asked him who composed the scores to those two movies. He didn't know. He just likes the music. The composers aren't in the current, temporary pop limelight, thus his ignorance.

He likes the music. That, finally, matters most.

The rest of society just doesn't care. So why should it matter to we film score fans what everyone else thinks?

NP: Goldsmith's "Contract on Cherry Street"

I find your argument circular. Instead of really addressing my point you have gone back to the beginning of the discussion. I see no need for me to go on.

This answer should sum up at least one issue.

PeterK

I think Williams is, at the end of the day (or the month, or the century) more temperamentally suited to compose the kind of music Spielberg wants and expects. Although I remember how much Goldsmith wished he'd had a shot at SCHINDLER'S LIST. (And he was sufficiently he gentleman to say how much he admired the Williams score. It's a tough old business we work in.)

I hope you can hear me in your closet.

I often feel the same way about my collection of bus timetables. Most of society is ignorant of the pleasures that can be obtained from thumbing the fading sheets of a 1947 Clacton to Margate bus timetable. Every digit of every schedule, be it the Walpole Park stop or the Burlington Street stopover point, sends a tingle down my spine….not least because I know I am one of the privileged few who is lucky enough to be able to appreciate such a profound publication.

And yes, it is the same with film music. Everyone gets to read bus timetables and everyone gets to hear film music……..but very few appreciate either.

And yet, without buses and movies there would be no bus timetables and film scores……

And, I can’t think of any particular bus timetable that has impacted on society with as much success as John Williams has done.

I can’t wait for when the time comes that some genius sets a bus timetable to music.

Bulldog

Yes, TITANIC had a magical score, but the movie overall was a tiresome exercise in redundant film making.

HAL 2000

Whatever shape my argument is, it is also consistent.

I would be happy to address your specific point if you would care to elaborate.

Nevertheless, I agree, Goldsmith has written some fantastic music……in those genres that appeal more to the film score enthusiast.

If you like film music, you’re bound to hear about Goldsmith.
If you like movies, you’re bound to hear about Williams.

You also ask what the difference is between being known and being popular.

The answer is simple……Williams is known by most of society…..Goldsmith is popular amongst soundtrack enthusiasts.

To put it another way……to be known throughout society (Williams), is to be recognized by the majority and popular with many. To be popular amongst soundtrack enthusiasts (Goldsmith), is to be popular with a minute fraction of society and recognized by a slightly larger but still minute fraction of society.

Peterk

Yes, that’s the basics in a nutshell. And yet….there is more to it than that.

Williams has created so many superb household themes, whilst Goldsmith has not (though Goldsmith has created some superb thematic material, it is rarely the kind that ‘catches’ the public imagination).

Think of Williams, and you hear ET, STAR WARS, SUPERMAN, CEOTTK, INDIANA JONES and so on and on.

Think of Goldsmith, and you hear DR KILDARE, and maybe, just maybe, THE WALTONS and STTMP.

Goldsmith’s career output is characterized by a massive amount of generally high standard music, for a generally low standard of movie.

Williams’ career output is characterized by a generous amount of exceptional musical quality, for a generally high standard of movie.

Williams’ is a ‘genius’.
Goldsmith is a potential ‘genius’.

It is one thing to be blessed with instinctive musical compositional skills, it is quite another to realize such gifts to the fullest…..Williams is a practical ‘genius’.

H Rocco

John Williams is a household name in Great Britain…..but I don’t ever remember seeing Williams on British television…..certainly not with the Boston Pops.

And, what if Goldsmith had been selected as Spielberg’s ‘house composer’? It would probably have meant that both Goldsmith and Williams remained unknown to the vast majority of society.

Mark Olivarez

Well said. Just because I am saying that I prefer Williams to Goldsmith…..it doesn’t mean that I dislike the bulk of Goldsmith’s work.