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Goodwin's score for Frenzy good, film not
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Topic: Goodwin's score for Frenzy good, film not

John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner

Quick note for all you folks this morning, before I start next leg of my vacation, down to Texas. I saw a few mins of Frenzy, the director's cut, on AMC last nigth. Horrible. Not even close to the original version I saw in 1971 in Kitzingen or Wurzburg, Germany. They gave the killer away in first few mins of movie and ruined the suspense. Added 43 nude scenes, six hundred new curse words and graphic NC-17 violence. Hardly any of this was in the original release and it was much better. No suspense but plenty of gore in this version. Try to enjoy, I didn't. I turned it off after about 25 mins. Goodwin's score was good though. Film was sickening. AMC should be ashamed. Their high quality of programming went down several notches with this abortion. The movie was rated R when it came out but was watchable and interesting because of the suspense. It was all taken out this movie version. Poor. Pure dynamic movie-making at its best for the masses. Best, John.
posted 06-19-2000 08:33 AM PT (US) 
Nicolai P. Zwar

Oscar® Winner

John, as I watch very little TV: what the hell does "director's cut" mean in this case? Hitchcock has been dead for years; did he cut a different version of FRENZY than the one I know? Has AMC found a special version of the movie cut by Hitchcock? I mean, it's NOT a director's cut if AMC edited back in scenes the director himself took out! Quite the contrary.
posted 06-19-2000 08:41 AM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant

Oscar® Winner

I taped it but haven't watched it yet. I've had it on video for years (pan & scan version). I took the "unedited version" to mean that they were not cutting for content as they would usuaully do with violence, language, nudity, etc.This film was Hitch's first R rating (However, it was his first released under the new MPAA ratings system, which went into effect about 1968). Hitch, finally and completely released from the contraints of the old rating system (which he had severly stretched in 1960 with Psycho), included his first graphic violence and nudity (don't confuse this with Psycho in which he pulled out all the tricks to make the shower scene. In Frenzy, Hitch went for complete and utter realism.) It also allowed him to place tongue firmly in cheek (have you ever seen a more harrowing/comic scene than the one in the potato truck?).
It's kind of interesting to think about what kind of movies would Hitch have made under the current studio system? I think the ways he filmed things were in part to appease the censors of the time. If Hitch had made all of his films today, would he have resorted to graphic violence and nudity of the kind we are so inundated with; or would he have continued making the kinds of films he is so well known for?
posted 06-19-2000 10:13 AM PT (US) 
John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner

NZ, I don't really know. It wasn't the same one I originally saw in its first run. I imagine that the one I saw was cut by him to suit the censors in 1970. Best, john.
posted 06-19-2000 10:21 AM PT (US) 
John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner

Greg, there was one really funny scene in it in the part I watched. It was after the graphic strangling in the office, the girl's tongue was hanging out to the left. Although, I did not enjoy the strangling scene, the tongue hanging to the left was kind of funny. The version I saw showed him only from shoulder down. He did not say anything only the girl when she realized he was the killer and the camera then went outside the office to the doorknob as she screamed and the camera backed down the stairs and out into the street where the screams were muffled in the daylight traffic outside. I liked that effect. All the gore didn't appeal to me. Best, John.
posted 06-19-2000 10:27 AM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

Actually, I think the scene involving the police inspector and his wife's cooking is the most suspenseful scene in the film (and the funniest!).Shaun
posted 06-19-2000 10:49 AM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant

Oscar® Winner

Shaun, thanks for the reminder of those scenes. It served to provide comic relief for the otherwise gruesome happenings in the rest of the film.Also, the final scene where the inspector catches the killer is a gem.
"Why Mr. so and so, you're not wearing your tie."
I think what made this film one of Hitch's latter good ones was that he went back to his roots of so many previous films, the theme of "the wrong man." Hitch did that so well in "NxNW", "The 39 Steps", "Saboteur" and so on.
[This message has been edited by Greg Bryant (edited 19 June 2000).]
posted 06-19-2000 10:56 AM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant

Oscar® Winner

I'm going to give last night's tape a spin, then I'll report back and let you know if it's any different from what I remember. Later!
posted 06-19-2000 04:17 PM PT (US) 
Rang
Oscar® Winner

I bought FRENZY about four or five years ago, and the graphic violence and nudity that John speaks off are there on my copy.Besides the graphic violence and nudity, and really, its overall unpleasant nature, FRENZY still manages to be an intriguing film, and as Greg mentioned, it was like Hitchcock "went back to his roots of so many previous films, the theme of 'the wrong man,'" even when the wrong man is no more a likable character than the right man.
Goodwin's score is pretty good.
posted 06-19-2000 05:49 PM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

Greg,
I don't know HOW I forgot about that scene! Thanks for the reminder! Frenzy is one of those films that I enjoyed until I tried showing it to my girlfriend, who remarked, "Everybody looks like Willy Wonka."Shaun
posted 06-19-2000 05:49 PM PT (US) 
Richard

Oscar® Winner

I think this is one of Hitchcock's worst films by far. I was given the "Alfred Hitchcock Collection", a box set of 10 of his movies, for Christmas, "Frenzy" was in it. Would this be the complete version?
I don't know because the tape is still in it's plactic wrapper.
Still, there are 9 other good films in the set.

And as far as the score, I don't remember that much except for the Opening Credits. All I remember thinking while I was watching this was "boy I wish Herrmann did the score for this movie".*sigh*
[This message has been edited by Richard (edited 19 June 2000).]
posted 06-19-2000 07:19 PM PT (US) 
Greg Bryant

Oscar® Winner

Reporting back...This is the same version I've seen several times before. Checked out the Internet Movie Database...there is no information on alternate versions, so I assume the "unedited" referred to the film being uncut.I did enjoy this film, though the actors are a bit unremarkable. The film is highly regarded as a return to form for Hitchcock after a series of flops. All his usual ingredients are there.
Yes, Hitchcock included realistic violence and nudity, but this was the first time the production code allowed him to do so. But to be honest, most films today include as much or more graphic violence than Hitchcock did in this film.
posted 06-19-2000 07:39 PM PT (US) 
PeterD

Oscar® Winner

The "unedited" version of "Frenzy" that AMC showed is exactly the same version that I saw in the theater when the movie first opened; AMC just showed it without the usual editing this movie undergoes when it airs on television.By the way, this is the movie that Henry Mancini originally scored, only to have his score rejected by Hitchcock. In his "The Dark Side of Genius" bio of Hitchcock, Donald Spoto quotes Bernard Herrmann as saying: "Hitchcock came to the recording session, listened awhile and said [to Mancini], 'Look, if I want Herrmann, I'd ask Herrmann. Where's Mancini?' He wanted a pop score, and Mancini wrote what he thought was me."
At this point, Hitchcock turned to Goodwin, telling him he wanted "sparkling, early-morning music for the opening." Goodwin says that "if Hitchcock hadn't directed me, I would have written something with a macabre lilt to it. But he wanted no hint of the horror to come."
I'm pretty sure that some of Mancini's "Frenzy" score was included on a Mancini compilation album. Has anyone heard it? What's it like?
posted 06-19-2000 07:52 PM PT (US) 
logied

Oscar® Winner

I believe this is Hitchcock's most misunderstood movie. What he wanted was a
pure everyday lighthearted feeling movie
and underneath it all pure evil lurks and
could strike at any time.
Evil in the real world does not come with
frighting music and dark nights. It comes
with the Bundy's and Dalbergs of the world
and this movie shows it at its best.
This movie can bring out the denial in us
like no other.
posted 06-20-2000 04:25 AM PT (US) 
DANIEL2
unregistered
FRENZY was an okay ‘little film’ that rather laboriously depicted Inspector Alec McCowen’s pursuit of ‘the necktie murderer’. It really amounted to a very light-hearted and very old-fashioned comedy/thriller set in contemporary (1972) London. Though well past his heyday, Hitchcock still managed to induce quite a few smiles and a likeable performance from Jon Finch (here playing a suspect). However, it was great comic performances from Barry Foster and McCowen that rescued the film from outright mediocrity….after all, the movie as a whole was extremely lame and very stodgy…the sort of thing one may imagine is a favourite of your local amateur-dramatics group (or geeks).From what I remember, the identity of the necktie murderer was never in doubt….but I won’t mention his name just in case. Those mealtime scenes with McCowen were hilarious, as was the murderer’s desperate attempts to dispose of one of his victims in the back of a lorry….Hitchcock sustained this excellent comedy situation for a satisfying period of time. However, the most amusing scene of all was the ‘murder by necktie’ of the lady at the dating agency….we were in stitches.
Smashing score from Goodwin too.
posted 06-20-2000 11:01 AM PT (US) 
Graham Watt

Oscar® Winner

I agree with those who say that it's sadly underrated. London is portrayed as being awfully seedy, but I think that Hitchcock, late in life, was just sardonically letting us all know that, despite all his previous gloss, he was just a seedy, very talented, Londoner with a sense of humour.By the way, where was all the nudity? A nipple here and a bottom there (which you have to use the freeze frame for) isn't my idea of a good skin flick.
As far as I remember, Ron Goodwin ironically portrayed the "majesty" of England's capital city. The rest seemed to be quite like his suspense cues from his other films, though effective.
Really like the rejected Mancini main title.
posted 06-20-2000 03:08 PM PT (US) 
John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner

Obviously, I stand corrected. One of my friends on the net here got me straightened out. I just forgot some of the most violent scenes for some reason. Although, I don't see how. Best, John.
posted 06-24-2000 07:04 AM PT (US) 
Marcelo Ferreyra

Oscar® Winner

One of the "scene-cues" that has always been in my mind is when "the wrong man" (I don't remember the name of the principal character)
lost his bid at the races because he didn't have the money to buy the bid.
So he is very angry reading the newspaper, all of this without music, and then he walks away quickly on the street; and when we see his back walking away, the music start contunuing the expression of the actor, so the ungry feeling continues as he fades away.
And this big amount of energy is carried on with the music a bit further.
For me, is one of the most effectives cues of Mr Goodwin.
Also the opening titles are imponent and very British.
[This message has been edited by Marcelo Ferreyra (edited 24 June 2000).]
posted 06-24-2000 10:41 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
