Earlier today, I had an ICQ conversation with Andre Lux, and heard that he, along with Lou Goldberg and vulcantouch, has been suspended from the board for some time. I haven't visited the board since Friday, so I missed the events at Audacity's thread. From the first few posts I read at this thread, I thought it was a good topic, and could bring positive results. And it stayed that way until the end, when it suddenly got terminated.

PeterK, I'm very thankful that you built this place, and I always thought (and still think) that you're a great guy. It's your board, and you can of course do everything that you want with it, but I think this was simply wrong.

There seems to be a big hostility against off-topic threads at this board. Why? For most of us, the members here at the board are the only people we know who care about film scores. We should be friends, and most of us are, I think (the Detroit threads proved this).

The final reason for suspending Andre, Lou and vulcan seems to be the fact that they replied to a thread that had turned into a discussion about censorship which PeterK had "closed". Why? Some discussion inevitably tend to get a bit hot, simply because we're a bunch of different people with different opinions. Some people may be offended by some comments from others, but do we have to "correct" this by simply suspending them? Aside from some harsh comments, they all contributed to this board.

I understand the need to keep things calm. If it was my board, I'd also try to preserve peace on it. But does it have to be so brutal? All in all, that special thread was a unusually civilized discussion (some comments aside), in part about why Lou thought (and I'd agree on that) that censorship is wrong most of the time. Of course, if somebody subscribes to this board and then starts posting only annoying messages, without any obvious interest in discussions about film music, then something should be done, but as I said before, they all contributed to the discussions about our hobby.

Sorry to re-start this thing, but because I love this place, I just had to say this. It's your board, PeterK, and I'm immensely thankful that you manage it. You can do with it whatever you want, but don't you think we should talk about this? I think the results would be far better than if we simply silence the members who don't agree.

If I get suspended now as well, so be it. But please don't simply write "this thread is closed" and suspend everybody who writes an answer, too. We should be allowed to defend our opinions.

If anybody feels offended by anything I wrote, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to write anything offensive, and I really think I'm of of the last persons who intend to write anything offensive. I rather started this to try to settle things, because I consider more or less everybody here my friend, and I understood most of what both sides said at Audacity's thread.

I am getting real tired having to come in here and explain and remind folks that we are here to talk about movie music, and charitably. This exhaustive practice is not what I envisioned when I set this thing up.

If you'd like, I can really start to swing the axe. It will get bloody. The place will look just as ugly as every other message board. Is this what you are asking me to do?

I am not going to discuss this ANY more. Go read what I have to say in "Audacity's Reply" and move on. If you don't like my rules, which are HARDLY rules to begin with, be gone!

That's it, you will hear no more from me. Is the state of movie music that bad that we have to go after message board administrators? There really should be no excuse for sticking to the subject, and sticking to it with charitability.

Marian, if you would take one second to look at the number of threads around here that are off-topic, I wouldn't think things were so hostile as you suggest. To be frank, I think I've deleted one thread all month!

Come on, end this.

quote:

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Originally posted by PeterK:
I am not going to discuss this ANY more. Go read what I have to say in "Audacity's Reply" and move on. If you don't like my rules, which are HARDLY rules to begin with, be gone!

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I read it, that's why I started this thread. I think we all talk about movie music, and we all do it charitably most of the time. I don't think Andre's comments are meant to be as harsh as they sound.

We had tons of discussions about this at the FSM board, and faced the same problems. I understand the need for some minor rules, and sometimes censorship is certainly required. I just don't see what's so special about this particular thread.

I'm sorry you feel so offended by all this, because I don't think you have to. You host a great message board, we're all thankful for that. If some discussions get bolder, I think that's normal and you won't be able to prevent this in the feature. I didn't see anybody attacking you, by the way.

(I'm speaking generally here):

1. Don't read the bloody thing anymore
2. Don't insult anyone personally; opinions are like a-holes, everybody has one. Accept it. What makes you think your crap don't stink? Just because you look down on Elfman, MV, etc.?
3. Don't come here anymore.
4. If you get hurt or offended, GOOD GOD WHY? These are people you will most likely NEVER meet, and you let it get to you?
5. You're likely never to change someone's opinion, so quit trying.
6. Going away for a little while and get some perspective on things. This is film msuic for Pete's sake. I love it as much as the next guy, but unless I become a damned good composer, it likely won't be my life, and I accept that as such. God, family, friends, school come in that order in my life. Film Music is way down the list (though my collecting habits do say different...)

--

Personally, I love the conversations that go on here. Some of the talk goes in wild directions from the original topic. This happens in real life conversation all the time: start talking about one thing, and veer off to another topic. Why not in virtual life? Do we really need to start another thread? Kinda puts a damper on the flow of conversation.
What message board doesn't go off-topic?

This is a popular site. Start swinging axes and no one will come. Andre brings color to the forum. Bring him back, PeteyK.
(and I never thought I'd say that).

This is not to say some people should not be banned. I don't know who should be. Frankly, I don't why Andre Lux is taken so personally by everyone. Sure I don't like his comments about Elfman, but you know what? he probably doesn't care what I think either. It doesn't change MY view of Elfman as a talented, ever growing composer.

HAVE FUN DAMMIT!!
Are we all supposed to deadly serious and academic about our mutual hobby and love?

NP -- Everest, "The Blizzard", IMAX

I really don't understand why we can't just get off the topic and get back to why we're here. That's all I was asking for in that Audacity thread. Apparently it's more difficult than I thought - so next time I will not ask anything. It seems when I ask for some kind of direction here, I get pointed out as the offended one and get a "CENSORER" sign tagged to my back. My goodness.

Marian, as for feeling kicked out of the party, those are your thoughts. Just as with every single person who has registered here to discuss movie music, you are still warmly welcome here.

As for those who are "suspended," it's nothing personal. Anyone who posted after I asked them not to (from the most controversial person here to someone we've never heard of before) got the brief suspension. I said something, I stick to the words I say. That's it. So, as much as everyone wants to think the suspension thing was me going after a certain group of people, that's completely not the case. The evidence is in that thread!

Case closed for me (really, this time).

PeterK

PeterK, a question for you. I read through "Audacity's Reply" and your final posts. Did you suspend the "offenders" before or after you posted your final words?

Did you know that the internet watches you while you sleep?

Now THAT'S something to be concerned about!

That and personal health...

Did you know that fishsticks make my limbs limp? Oy!

the word "ruthless."

Ruthless means to be absolutely unrelenting, more or less.

BUT, if one is kind and sincere, does that make one ruthful? Full of ruth?

Everyone is free to post.

PeterK

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Greg, the issue is over

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Should I take that as just shut up and go away?

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A guy decides to have a party. He invites all his friends, supplies all the food and drinks, music, etc. But in the invitation, he sets down two rules.

1. Everyone has to be civil.

2. Everyone is restricted to only talking about nuclear physics.

You see, you asking how you should take it only sets me up to be the bad guy.

All I mean when I say the issue is over? I am not here to discuss how we discuss. Everyone knows that on the cover of the invitation to this party it says "movie music," so there should be no question as to what the subject is. Sure, conversation goes beyond that. Has it not here?

It's really so simple. I think everyone knows what to do here and how to behave. There are only a few out of the hundreds here that like to push the censorship buttons. We'll get over it for a month and a half, and then it will flare up again, just as before.

Until then,

quote:

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PeterK said: Everyone knows that on the cover of the invitation to this party it says "movie music," so there should be no question as to what the subject is. Sure, conversation goes beyond that. Has it not here?

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Peter, I'm just trying to understand what you, the gatekeeper, has designated as acceptable; then I as the participant can decide whether or not I want to "attend the party". Over on "Audacity's Reply" you said:

quote:

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Lou, there are only two simple rules for this corner of the web. 1) Talk about movie music, and 2) do it charitably.

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I have never had a problem with Rule #2. It's Rule #1 that's the problem for me. It seems too severe and restrictive. Naturally, I'm not going to talk football on this board (not that I would be inclined to).

But according to Rule #1, DjC's post "Realization of Stupidity..." would not qualify. We are having an enjoyable conversation about being overly critical about films in general, and where we state how we feel current films have either gone wrong or right. By your criteria, this is off topic because we are not discussing film music.

If I'm at a party with friends, but the host severly limits what I want to talk about, I'm inclined to go elsewhere.

quote:

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If you don't want to participate in this message board according to the two rules we have here, please move on...If you'd like, I can really start to swing the axe. It will get bloody.

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The censorship issue arises when I can't even discuss the rules with the "government." That's when censorship begins. In our society, whether it's government or non-government, we as society members can seek redress to either challenge rules we consider unfair or at least seek information to clarify the rules so we can decide if we even want to participate.

Can I at least respectfully inquire about the rules and have them clarified?

Right now, the law states that 1) we talk about movie music. However, evidence of other talk is out there. You've cited a perfect example. But why hasn't that thread been nuked a long time ago, as it has nothing to do with movie music? Call me lenient, but don't call me Shirley.

The rule 1) we talk about movie music is a very general guideline. As long as 80-90% of the dialogue as something to do with the nature of this website, things are fine. There's no way in heck I think there should be 100% movie music discussion. Impossible.

But if I do get tired of threads about how we need to discuss movie music and who are and who are not the wimps on this message board, I can steer people away from the potential personal attacks by getting the train back on track and closing the thread. But no, as we've seen, that is censorship, and it makes people upset that I am preventing pure freedom of speech.

Well, to put it quite frankly, a lot of you get away from movie music discussion, preventing this place from being purely movie music discussion. Do I get offended as some of you do when I close one thread out of a thousand? No. I tolerate it.

Communication is give and take, especially in privately built forums. If you don't stick to the subject 100%, I don't mind as an administrator, as long as you don't mind me removing a post or two because the post in question is a little out of bounds and beyond the limits I set for this place the day it opened.

Let's be fair. I am not a totalitarian dictator because I decide .01% of all the discussions here needs to end, especially in that specific circumstance (relating to "Audacity's Reply").

PeterK

So that this whole thing has at least SOMETHING to do with film music: anybody else here wish they would re-record a complete HIGH NOON?

Now, lets stop this nonsense and get back to what we do best: kill each other because of movie music and kick Hans Zimmer's butt!

Just kiding...

Nicolai,
CBS Records produced a compilation back about 1998 called The Film Music of Dimitri Tiomkin, which contained (as far as I could tell) original recordings (or at least the re-recordings made at time of release) from a number of Tiomkin scores. included was high Noon, with the Frankie Lane song. I've been looking for an original copy of this for years, but sadly it's OP.

(Correction) Sorry, that was 1988, not '98.

[This message has been edited by SPOR (edited 19 June 2000).]

the main reason for all of this is because certain people continue to use offensive remarks. This should not be.

I support PeterK one hundred percent.

Scott