So, are we to understand that reference to "plo murders of innocent children" is NOT a loaded amalgam of words implying a prejudged (and therefore presumptive) condition to the query presented to my board name? Why not just type (for instance), "what do you think about the feeling among Israelis that Palestinians are all about letting the PLO engage in terrorism in place of politics?" Wouldn't that have worked a little better, Chris?

Why did you say "Palestine forever!"?

However, before you assume my criticism of the media is totally leftist, I must say that I don't entirely believe that people are sheep manipulated to desire things through advertising that they wouldn't otherwise want. I think people want stuff. And, all the publicity in the world isn't going to save a bad film from bombing or bad music from going unbought. Nonetheless, the tactics of advertising and publicity on the whole, as well as the design and creation of visual media (TV, photos, films, etc.) can attempt to influence and push for compliance with a heavy-hand.

What was "eliminated" from this thread?

...and, more importantly...

In all fairness, while none of these posts where in any way offensive, I would admit that they did not contribute anything important to the thread (which may be the reason they were thrown out).

NP: Alex North: A Streetcar Name Desire
National Philharmonic Orchestra/Goldsmith
(Varese Sarabande)

Ah, well, you know, it just wouldn't be ME if I didn't put something like that-- Any chance for emotion-crazed angry typing... internet should be exciting!(sic)

Besides, it would be boring, just on a personal level, if we couldn't image somebody else's point of view. My film scoring heroes taught me long ago that the incidentals were like local color but the people involved were human beings whether we liked their actions or politics or background or not. Prioritising external policy beliefs just gets everyone into trouble. You don't have to like that one guy, though, cuz he sucks! (no conflict, boring movie, unless it's Patriot which is beyond help).

NP: Bridges to Babylon by the Stones

I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN.

So don't go startin' no stinkin threads complaining about censorship!

Evenin'

PeterK

quote:

---

If you're blue
and you don't know
where to go to
why don't you go where fashion sits...

PUTTIN' ON THAH WEETZ!!!

---

"POOIN OOHDA WEEEEEZ!"

What on Earth makes you think I would wish not to read and, perhaps, respond to your postings in future? I have gained a great deal of satisfaction from reading your posts and entering into various discussions with you and others here at the message board.

Though I share your hatred of the perpetrators of terrorism, at some point democratic government must engage in dialogue with terrorist leaders.

Nelson Mandella was a terrorist…..Mandella engaged in terrorist activities….Mandella was a terrorist leader with the ANC…..and yet, quite rightly, he is now a hero of the free world, a great man who championed the cause of justice in the face of the ‘evil’ apartheid system.

Here in Great Britain, the British government has been compelled to meet the IRA halfway. With the conditions for power-sharing between Loyalist and Republican political organisations in Northern Ireland having been met, to continue to reject all forms of negotiation with the IRA would merely perpetuate the murders, maimings, beatings, bombings and general disorder that has blighted the province of Northern Ireland, and mainland Britain, for the past three decades. For a modern, democratic and sophisticated nation like the United Kingdom to suffer the scourge of organized terrorism is intolerable, no matter how justified the terrorists’ cause. Yes, the occasional terrorist activities of some conservation group or some fascist splinter group, though dreadful, it is still a fact of life that one may have to live with. But a terrorist campaign on the scale of the troubles experienced with the IRA (and loyalist terrorists) in Northern Ireland and mainland Britain is an absolute tragedy. Apart from that, the terrorist activities of a group of fascists are not only despicable, but their cause meets with almost no support. However, though the terrorist activities of the IRA are despicable, their cause is a worthy one in many eyes. Indeed, even those who would hate the idea of a ‘united Ireland’ separated from Great Britain, cannot argue with the right of some Irishmen to desire such a situation…but only through peaceful means. Therefore, though the IRA are wrong to use terrorist tactics, their cause is a worthy one.

So, there comes a point when democratic government MUST negotiate with such terrorists…..in the name of good sense and democracy…..it is sometimes the only way forward…..the only chance for resolution and peace.

The same is true of the PLO…..indeed, Clinton’s stance with Arafat is further evidence of this US President’s immense courage and determination.

Likewise, the British government, and especially the Loyalist political movements in Northern Ireland, have determined with great resolve to attempt to meet the IRA halfway…..the ability to compromise takes far greater strength and willpower than the steadfast disregard of all of the terrorists demands…..especially considering the hundreds of innocent people in Ireland and in England who have been murdered and maimed through vile acts of terrorism perpetrated by the cowardly IRA over the past thirty years. The Brighton bombing during the 80s, that saw members of the Government killed and maimed….Members of Parliament lost their lives and their loved ones, even Margaret Thatcher’s life was threatened on many occasions. Lord Louis Mountbatten was just one of the many well known British establishment figures who have been the victims of IRA terrorism. To negotiate with such fiends is unimaginably difficult.

And yet…..the time has come to compromise. To continue to slam the door in the face of communication and resolution would merely result in countless more killings in the years to come. Even now, the situation is far from settled. The marching season is upon us, and with it comes the violence, the intimidation and the disruption of everyday life in Northern Ireland.

Don’t anyone think for a minute that Sinn Fein is somehow unconnected with the IRA. Much as Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness will argue otherwise, Sinn Fein is the political wing of the IRA, but much more besides. Many members of Sinn Fein have engaged in terrorist activities…..but that said, all strength to Sinn Fein. It is a political party with democratically elected representatives….that is all that really matters.

The fact that what is now the Republic of Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom is hard enough to live with…..for Northern Ireland also to leave Great Britain would be as disastrous for the union as losing Scotland or Wales, But that will never happen…..Northern Ireland will always be part of the United Kingdom, simply through the sheer weight of the loyalist population that migrated to Northern Ireland when Southern Ireland gained independence last century. Much like the American War of Independence, the struggle of the British American colonists to break from mother England forced the loyalists to Canada, thus Canada was destined to be ‘British’, despite a not insubstantial French population.

A good part of me is Irish, stemming from the Dublin area, and though England is my true home, the Irish in me yearns for the day when Southern Ireland becomes a part of the United Kingdom once again, or at least a member of the Commonwealth. The Irish, Welsh, Scottish and English comprise an enormously wide-ranging group of peoples……and yet our people are bound in so many ways. The United Kingdom as a whole, is far greater than the sum of its parts. Great Britain is a far lesser place without Ireland.

Western governments actively promote justice through the ballot box, terrorist organizations such as the IRA actively seek their justice through the bullet and the bomb. The cause of the terrorists may be just, but their actions are wrong. By the same token, the actions of government may, on occasion, be wrong, but at least it is the people, through the ballot box, who have sanctioned government action. The people can vote the poor government out of office….if only the people could expunge the scourge of terrorism as easily.

For the democratic governments of the free world to avoid negotiating with certain politically motivated terrorist groups, would be as reckless, damaging, undemocratic, unconstructive and foolhardy as the tactics of the terrorists themselves.

The bond between the home nations…..Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland is stronger than even the ties mother England has with its former colonies such as Australia, the USA and South Africa….though Canada remains very closely tied to Great Britain. The whole essence of the British people stems from the mix of these four nations…..the United Kingdom, without Ireland, is like a man without his right arm.

If only the 19th century British government had heeded Gladstone’s warning that Ireland should be granted ‘home rule’ within the British Empire…..Ireland today would still be a part of the United Kingdom, and Ireland itself would be unified and whole and strong. Scotland and Wales now have devolved governments, Ireland would have had the same….a happy medium…..independence within the powerful framework of the United Kingdom. After all, Catholics and Protestants live happily side by side in the rest of the United Kingdom…..the reasons for dispute in Northern Ireland seem to have almost been forgotten…..conflict seems to be taking place just for the sake of it….it’s like a tradition….it’s very sad.

I agree, all of the postings that Peter removed at this thread were of little or no relevance to the discussion, and I respect the board administrator’s judgement.

I would also like to apologize to you Nicolai….my remark ‘….probably because you have had nothing interesting to say……’ was silly and unnecessary. Peter did me a great service by removing a posting that I should not have made in the first place. In any case, my remark was not intended to refer to the general nature of your input at the board; that has been pleasant, positive and often interesting.

If you're gonna sing, how about trying the following. You've heard of CMS, well here are some of my anti-CMS favourites from the 20th century.

Arthur “Big-Hearted Arthur” Askey singing ‘Busy Busy Bee’ from 1943.

Bzzzz Bzzzz Bzzzz Bzzzzz,
Busy bee, busy bee,
Buzz all you like,
But DOWNT sting me!

Then there’s Elaine Paige singing ‘Home Again’ from 1978.

We’re home again,
So close the door.
We’re home again,
This time for sure.

And another 20th century cultural icon, Max Bygraves singing ‘I’m a Blue Toothbrush’ from 1954.

I’m a blue toothbrush, you’re a pink toothbrush,
Have we met somewhere before?
You’re a pink toothbrush, I’m a blue toothbrush.
Yes we met by the bathroom door.

And when I hear you whistle,
You make my nylon bristle.
I’m a blue toothbrush,
You’re a pink toothbrush……..

Welcome back.Not having looked at this thread much recently, I was momentarily disappointed to read threats (and accompanying cheers) of your impending departure. I enjoy reading (or, what is more frequent, admittedly, skimming) your posts. I don't agree with you much, and I especially agree with Chris about the Middle East, but the board's a better place for all of your loquacity (not to say pedantics!) and your love of CMS. Thanks for coming back.

You ask my reasons for admiring Bill Clinton.

Where do I begin? Well, apart from Clinton being a champion of political-correctness and equality, here are just a few of the reasons why I admire this great man from Arkansas.

Clinton’s successful presidential campaign of 1992 was made extremely difficult for this most cultured of gentlemen by the vile attacks of the opposition, who attempted to besmirch his character by dredging up claims of personal misconduct from his time in England. The way Clinton withstood and triumphed over this foul and cynical assault was a tribute to the man’s tenacity and strength of character, attributes that the free world are now thankful for following Clinton’s early return to Camp David from the G8 summit in Japan. My respect for Bill was further reinforced following his weathering of the Whitewater storm. This finest of presidents emerged from this ‘dark’ period in his presidency an even better and stronger man.

Having been elected president, Clinton triumphed over opposition from Republicans and from his own ranks to gain budget approval, despite a demand for more spending cuts. Bill doggedly ensured that the wealth of the United States would continue to be meted out to its people with generosity and even-handedness.

However, it is on the international stage that Clinton has truly excelled, especially for a president elected primarily on popular domestic policies. With political issues erupting around the world, in places as disparate as Bosnia, Somalia, Rwanda, Haiti, and Cuba, Clinton wasted no time in upholding American values of freedom and fairness through the protection of free trade and peace-keeping measures. Indeed, the Israel-Jordan peace agreement was signed at the White House in the summer of 1994 by Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin and Jordan's King Hussein. In the autumn of that year, Clinton succeeded in restoring Haiti's ousted president, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, to power. Clinton scored again by bolstering Russian president Boris Yeltsin's popularity with American economic aid, and would later persuade Yeltsin to ‘allow’ former Eastern Block countries to join NATO. And, during the entire course of Clinton’s tenure, the bond between the USA and Great Britain has grown ever stronger. When it comes to foreign policy, Britain is now seen by America as its greatest ally, and British approval is constantly sought before overseas action is considered. Indeed, Britain is once again a powerful force on the world stage (if mainly symbolically) as a loyal and trusty friend of America….that great bastion of democracy…..and Bill Clinton has played a major role in forging the stronger links between the American people and her close cousins in Great Britain. And, Clinton fuelled the success of George Mitchell’s peace brokering exercise in Northern Ireland.

Back at home, in 1996, Clinton enacted measures to improve access to health care, to raise the minimum wage above $5, and to impose sanctions on companies that do business with Iran and Libya. In a move to discourage teenage smoking, Clinton approved a series of curbs on cigarette advertising and introduced plans for the FDA to regulate nicotine as a controlled substance…..pretty impressive stuff! I must say though, I still enjoy the occasional pipe, cigarette and cigar.

Clinton’s second term was charcterized by a soaring economy, and his continued gentlemanly conduct in public and in private. The Starr investigations provided conclusive evidence of Clinton’s enormous strength and resolve, and his ability to lead the USA as a great leader and as a human being….a man of the people. The mature and enlightened people of the United States were willing to ignore Clinton's alleged human frailty…..anyway, the economy was in great shape, his policies were popular, and the United States remained strong abroad. The public had no desire for impeachment…..and autumn elections saw the Republicans lose five House seats.

Apart from all of the above reasons for admiring Clinton, there is the wonderful Hillary….and Chelsea too! Hillary has to be one of the most able and talented first ladies in the history of the USA. It is interesting to note that Great Britain’s Prime Minister, Tony Blair, also has an incredibly intelligent, witty and popular wife to support him, in Cherie.

One of Clinton’s greatest triumphs has been the coining of the phrase “fear of the other”….the man has unflinchingly attacked prejudice, seeing it as one of society’s last great ills. But that is what Clinton is all about….he purifies, he expunges the evils of society, he has led a hugely successful crusade to further erode the barriers that divide one man from his neighbour, at home and abroad. His response to the ‘ethnic cleansing’ in the Balkans is proof positive that his devotion to world harmony extends well beyond the comfortable and secure boundaries of the USA. Clinton is not alone in this….he merely represents modern America, a nation that is serving as guiding light to all the world’s nations…..America is full of heroes like Clinton, and heroines like Hillary….Clinton is merely the temporary custodian of the further development and sophistication of global society.

More than ever, the political leaders of the free world are relying on teamwork….not just co-operation with government colleagues, but also consultation with their wives, families, and friends. Indeed, I’m sure that Clinton had the statesmanlike foresight to consult Lewinsky on policy at home and abroad. Apart from providing Bill with great friendship, Lewinsky served her country, and the free world, by helping to inspire its leader. The American People could see this, and respected Clinton’s conduct as the actions of a normal human being….the People could identify with Clinton’s human frailties.

Clinton and Blair…..they’re ’team people’…..bonding with the peoples of the free world, and reaching out beyond the constantly expanding borders of Western Civilization, to the less fortunate and oppressed.

It was quite fitting that the fine movie AIR FORCE ONE was made during Clinton's stint as president.....the movie is a serves as a great tribute to the courage and resolve of President Bill Clinton.....the Harrison Ford character and Bill Clinton are virtually interchangeable....it was quite moving to see the real-life president invite many of the cast and crew on to the real-life Air Force One.

Having been born in the town of Hope, Clinton has dedicated his life to fulfilling the hopes and dreams of the people of the Free World.