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Author	Topic: Whats the best King Kong CD release?

TimT Oscar® Winner	I'm currently looking at the one on the Marco Polo Label released in 1998, but I know there are others.
posted 06-08-2000 08:51 AM PT (US)

Greg Bryant Oscar® Winner	The Marco Polo release is the most exhaustive, and a pretty good recording. The recent Rhino release IS the original recording for the film, but the only way they could pull it off was to take it straight from the film, meaning it has dialogue. The 1975 Fred Steiner (no relation to Max) recording on Fifth Continent/Label X is, IMHO legendary. But I think it's out of print. It is highly recommended if you can find it. There's also an old LP re-recording out there conducted by (Perry something, Percy something, Percy Faith? - the name escapes me). It's a pretty atrocious recording. Staying away from it should be easy, since it's out of print. John Barry's 1976 remake score is somewhat available, and it's okay for a remake, definitely better than it's film.
posted 06-08-2000 08:59 AM PT (US)

Nicolai P. Zwar Oscar® Winner	The Marco Polo version is highly recommendable... it is superior to Max Steiner's old original soundtrack recording not only in sound, but even in execution. I would go with that one. The Fred Steiner recording is good as well, though it's been quite a while that I have heard that one; I only know the LP version of it. NP: Sid Meier's ALPHA CENTAURI (Keeps me from doing more important things though.)
posted 06-08-2000 09:04 AM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	If one can get the Marco Polo version, I see no reason to have the Fred Steiner version except for completism's sake. Nothing wrong with the Steiner version as such, but the Marco Polo is more complete and better played and recorded across the board. However, I myself could not do without the Rhino version, dialogue intrusions or no.
posted 06-08-2000 09:41 AM PT (US)

SPOR2 Oscar® Winner	Since I may listen to it only once a year, my Label X recording with Fred Steiner is eminantly satisfactory. I mean, how much mickey-mouse music can one bear? Rather than another King Kong, I would rather have preferred Marco Polo to re-record Dimitri Tiomkin's 'The Thing'. Of course, it doesn't have the historical selling points of Kong but, as one of the most unique scores of Tiomkin's career and of '50's sci-fi, it's omission from the catalogue, not including the Gerhardt suite, is glaring.
posted 06-08-2000 11:19 AM PT (US)

Nicolai P. Zwar Oscar® Winner	SPOR2, good suggestion. I would love to see anyone capable to record some Tiomkin scores. I would like to have HIGH NOON, GUNFIGHT AT THE O.K. CORRAL, and THE THING. This stuff seems to be right up Marco Polo's alley, too. (Hint, hint.... are you lurking, honorable John Morgan?)
posted 06-08-2000 11:42 AM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	Fans have been begging for a quality rerecording of THE THING for at least twenty years. I remember people saying at the time Carpenter's 1982 remake came out, that this was the exact time for Varese or (the former) Southern Cross to produce one. We're still waiting ... but I'm sure the market is there, no less so than for some of the other projects that, for example, Marco Polo has so commendably embraced.
posted 06-08-2000 12:58 PM PT (US)

Gae Oscar® Winner	I know I've posted this before but I highly recommend the new Marco Polo re-recording (reconstructed by our very own emminent Moviemusic member-John Morgan). Read my review here:- http://www.moviemusic.com/reviews.asp?kingkong Cheers Gae
posted 06-08-2000 02:42 PM PT (US)

mlw Oscar® Winner	I guess I'm a little partial to Mr. Scott's King Kong Lives, at the end of the day. But Messrs. Stromberg and Morgan deserve tons of support.
posted 06-08-2000 03:00 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	Is there a BAD score with the name "Kong" attached to it so far? Factor in Ifukube's KING KONG VS. GODZILLA and KING KONG ESCAPES, and still there is not. Except, perhaps, the bizarro KING OF KONG ISLAND (which I've mostly forgotten) or QUEEN KONG (I've yet to see that one.) Or, I suppose, the Japanese KING KONG APPEARS IN EDO (1934), but it seems that no one who saw that long-lost film is still alive, so who the hell knows what it was like. Keep up the good work, Messrs. Polo.
posted 06-08-2000 03:07 PM PT (US)

Luscious Lazlo Oscar® Winner	H. ROCCO ASKS: "Is there a BAD score with the name Kong attached to it so far?" Yes there is. It's called KING KONG WENT TO HONG KONG TO PLAY PING-PONG WITH HIS DING-DONG. By the otherwise-impeccable Hideo Yakamoto. http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum1/HTML/002405.html Timmer is right. John Barry's score is better than Steiner's.
posted 06-08-2000 03:38 PM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Oscar® Winner	There is also the really lousy Leroy Holmes verion of it on LP United Artists. Not recommended. My favorite recording of all, but not complete of course, is the suite on the RCA Classics. Very well done. The Label X is good but sustained loud for so long it gets you tired. Marco Polo is pretty good too. I recall upon seeing this movie in 1973, I have seen it many times before and since that also, that the audience laughed at the mickey mouse music when the bronte chased those guys and the one up the tree. The scene was very funny. Best, John.
posted 06-08-2000 05:09 PM PT (US)

Brad Wills Oscar® Winner	Another vote here for the Marco Polo restoration. I agree with John about the Label X/Fred Steiner version in that it is so LOUD for so LONG that it really becomes tiresome, and it's only forty-some minutes of the score! The Stromberg reconstruction, on the other hand, is near complete at 74 minutes and flies by. The main difference for me is in the orchestration itself. Christopher Palmer, never one to use a single instrument when he could use 82, beefed up Steiner's original orchestral sketches for the Label X release. Don't get me wrong - I truly admire a lot of the Palmer's work - but Steiner, being the consumate musician that he was, wrote KONG for a smaller ensemble as dictated by budgetary constraints. Palmer's efforts seem to muddy up the procedings and a great deal of detail is lost. Sometimes the extra percussion is nice as in "Forgotten Island", but if you compare it to Steiner's original intent as found on the Marco Polo release you'll find that Palmer was in effect re-arranging the music ("Jungle Dance" being one of the most obvious). Another thing about the MP version is the restoration of the saxophones which was one of the truly distinctive features of the original score. The performance on the MP is much better, as well.
posted 06-08-2000 06:43 PM PT (US)

Cole Oscar® Winner	i love the interperetation of the marco polo release - imean, thats what we like right? a good sound that reminds us of the movie not poor quality and dialogue with the actuall recording - at least thats what i like (although i usually do like the original - ie the new superman versus the Mc Neely recording) i also love the barry version - but you know how i am with barry. its really cool despite the difficult availability and the akward swing song for NY city just my quick 2 cents NP - nothing
posted 06-08-2000 08:53 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	Lazlo, I've told you before ... the fellow's name is SHIGEO Yakamoto. (It can be READ as Takeo.)
posted 06-08-2000 09:24 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Oscar® Winner	I'm not going to debate the merits of the 2 Kong CDs. I'll just tell you that if you've any interest in the Fred Steiner version after all that's been said, it is still in print. It's on Laserlight for 5 or 6 bucks, listed as Max Steiner Collection, I believe (it also has tracks from This is Cinerama and Death of a Scoundrel). I don't have the Rhino CD, but another source for about 12 minutes of original King Kong tracks is on tape from the Steiner Library. You can look them up on-line or as a link from the FSM home page. Then when you see how much original Steiner is still available on tape to acquire, you can go crazy like I did. I agree with John about the Leroy Holmes LP--nice cover with original poster art--but none of Holmes' versions of scores was ever on the money (although I must admit playing his version of Citizen Kane to death in the very early days of my collecting before I knew better). Also short but OK is the Gerhardt conducted suite on his Steiner CD (I was always a bit T-ed at the gong to call Kong on that one). Lastly, I showed this film on tape to someone who had never seen it before. While she watched, I worked in another room and overhearing the film it seemed to me that it was like 45 minutes of just people screaming one after another. There have been a lot of theories about Kong. One I liked was that Kong was Carl Denham's Id. I wonder if Kong could be taken in any way as a metaphor for WWI or the Depression....just a thought. NP: "Taurus II" from some Mike Oldfield album.
posted 06-08-2000 11:01 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Oscar® Winner	Chris Palmer & Dimitri Tiomkin---I agree that there is a need for much more Tiomkin, but of all the film composers, Tiomkin seems the toughest to re-record. Some have been successful (Gerhardt, Johnson, Kunzel) and others haven't (Bernstein, Willcocks--who should turn in his knighthood for his lousy version). I would think that getting The Thing right would be even more difficult than getting other Tiomkin right. I agree about Chris Palmer. It's difficult to criticize someone who did so much for film music, but he loved to over-orchestrate and as a result some of his reconstructions seem off from the originals in a way I think he could have done something about and didn't. Tiomkin is a case in point. Just compare Palmer's version of the Search for Paradise finale with the original soundtrack version and you'll know instantly what I'm talking about. By the way, I'm really looking forward to Son of Kong sometime soon from Marco Polo. NP: the Oldfield is done, so something else, let's see here, how about Mountains of the Moon (Michael Small)---Man this is great, how come I haven't played this in a while? [This message has been edited by Lou Goldberg (edited 08 June 2000).]
posted 06-08-2000 11:19 PM PT (US)

SPOR2 Oscar® Winner	Like I stated earlier, I rarely play the CD and it's probably due to the sustained hysteria, as many of you have pointed out but, as to Mr. Palmer's proclivity for double-decker orchestration, I would point out that many of Maurice Jarre's scores from the '80'/early 90's: ENEMY MINE, TAI PAN, PASSAGE TO INDIA, MAD MAX: BTD, SHADOW OF THE WOLF etc...are the better for his involvement. (Don't you just hate it when someone mentions a CD you can no longer find because it's out of print...and all because you kept postponing its purchase! I've got Mountains of the Moon on cassette. Only problem. I don't have a cassette player anymore. Love the End Title track. By the bye, anyone ever see a film titled: Boys School for the Devil starring Beau Bridges. Small scored that as well, and very effectively I might add). [This message has been edited by SPOR2 (edited 08 June 2000).]
posted 06-08-2000 11:46 PM PT (US)

sabbey Oscar® Winner	If anyone wants Marco Polo's version of King Kong, you can get it for an very good price at the BMG Music Club. BTW, I too am looking forward to Son of Kong. How is it compared to the original Kong score? Regards, Sean Robert Abbey
posted 06-09-2000 02:21 AM PT (US)

Bill Whitaker Oscar® Nominee	The new Marco Polo re-recording of THE SON OF KONG is possibly the finest yet by Bill Stromberg and the Moscow Symphony Orchestra, and besides this colorful, utterly charming 45-minute score, one gets the added bonus of more than a half-hour of music from THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME, composed by Steiner in 1932, just before he tackled KING KONG. For those who shudder at some of the thundering climaxes of KING KONG that go on and on, the re-recording of THE SON OF KONG ought to be a pleasant surprise. Although there's enough music to chronicle fierce prehistoric battles on Skull Island, much of the music is more engaging, more fanciful, no doubt to capture the cuddly title character, whose presence is played more for laughs than chills. It's really a lovely score. KING KONG may be a greater score, but I enjoy listening to THE SON OF KONG much more. And the performances are exciting and self-assured. And wait till you see some of the eye-popping stills in the booklet! They alone may be worth the price of the CD when it's finally released.
posted 06-09-2000 07:35 AM PT (US)

Nicolai P. Zwar Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Cole: i love the interperetation of the marco polo release - imean, thats what we like right? a good sound that reminds us of the movie not poor quality and dialogue with the actuall recording - at least thats what i like (although i usually do like the original - ie the new superman versus the Mc Neely recording) Did Joel McNeely ever record SUPERMAN or are you refering to the recording John Debney made?
posted 06-09-2000 03:19 PM PT (US)

Howard L Oscar® Winner	Gotta agree with the thumbs down on the Leroy Homes LP. The only good thing is Ray Bradbury's liner notes. I'm very happy with the Rhino release, dialogue & all. One of my favorite cues is an atmospheric one with the harp; in the movie it occurs when everyone's resting and just before they cut to Ann & Jack fleeing back through the jungle.
posted 06-09-2000 06:05 PM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Oscar® Winner	Lou made a good point on Tiomkin. His music is very difficult to play in some scores. Very fast with a lot of activity in the orchestra so some of the groups have a hard time getting it right. That is why a lot of these recordings don't sound just right. One I can think of is the Dial M for Murder piece on Silva. They tried but it doesn't sound too much like the film. Many of his scores are very busy with lots of notes. Making them difficult to perform. Best, John.
posted 06-09-2000 06:14 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	I watched SON OF KONG again a couple of years ago, and was pleasantly surprised by how cleverly Steiner mixed and mingled his original KONG motives with new ideas. On the strength of the excellent Marco Polo rerecording of the first KONG, I can hardly wait for their upcoming album.
posted 06-09-2000 07:59 PM PT (US)

logied Oscar® Winner	I have the lasarlight version and I,m happy with it. I don,t find KK to my listening pleasure very often so I only take it out when listening to simliar type dated material. Same goes with the movie.
posted 06-10-2000 04:17 AM PT (US)

John Morgan Oscar® Winner	Thanks for all the kind words on our Marco Polo KONG recording. It is also nice to see my friend Bill Whitaker posting. As many of you know, Bill is responsible for most of our best liner notes in such releases as Newman's HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME, MOBY DICK, the Universal horror series (3 albums now)! THe Victor Young album, MURDER AND MAYHEM and the Waxman release of MR. SKEFFINGTON. I am so relieved and full of gratitude that Bill's notes will grace our upcoming Son of KONG/Most Dangerous Game CD. Papa KONG has a special place in film music history, as does the film in film history. When I was basically a young adult, I had the pleasure of working with Fred Steiner on the Entr'acte release....way back in 1976. I picked the cues to be recorded and since we had the LP length to worry about, I pretty much picked the big, showpiece sections of the score. In retrospect, this made the listening experience pretty unrelenting and I think our Marco Polo edition, which includes all 72 minutes of the score, makes a more pleasurable listen as the big set pieces are broken up by the wonderful mood cues. Like most of Steiner's film work, the score is very narrative and the more cues you have, the better listen in a pure musical sense. I must say the Fred Steiner recording is excellent. Hearing that recorded live was one of my most profound musical experiences. However, I have such a passion for that score, and when I got into a position to do these recordings for Marco Polo, I knew KONG would have to be done complete and with more authentic orchestration. Christopher Palmer did a fine job, but he always tried to make the music "bigger." I orchestrated the music, like Palmer, from Steiner's original sketches, but made sure I adhered to Steiner's intentions by following his instructions and listening the film's soundtrack. Although our orchestra was as large as the Fred Steiner recording, I didn't double lines and chords and add a lot of percussion. Steiner was very lean in his writing and the interior lines of music must be heard and NOT over orchestrated, as this makes the music weigh down into a ponderous pancake. As Bill Whitaker mentions, SON OF KONG may very well be a better listen away from the film. The film itself is full of incident and variety that the original KONG didn't have. The themes are simply enchanting and I think this may be our best performed and recorded album yet. John Morgan
posted 06-10-2000 07:49 AM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	The Fred Steiner recording was great for its time, and I was thrilled to have it. That doesn't mean there wasn't room for improvement, and your Marco Polo release surely did that. It is one of the best and most important film scores of all time, and it was most surely done justice at last. I can't wait to hear SON OF KONG/MOST DANGEROUS GAME.
posted 06-10-2000 01:12 PM PT (US)

Gae Oscar® Winner	Welcome to the Moviemusic message board Bill. Its nice to see represenatives from the film music world on the board as well as we humble fans! Cheers Gae [This message has been edited by Gae (edited 10 June 2000).]
posted 06-10-2000 02:58 PM PT (US)

Howard L Oscar® Winner	Oh, I've got the runaway blues...
posted 06-11-2000 04:14 PM PT (US)

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