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      GOLDSMITH ... Something to Ponder!!

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    Author
    Topic:   GOLDSMITH ... Something to Ponder!!

     Lonely Guy
     Oscar® Winner
     

    Here's a question for all you guys and gals out there!
    Which SINGLE piece of music - not an ENTIRE score, but ONE SINGLE piece of music - do you think best personifies Goldsmith's style?
    I have some idea but I want to know what y'all think!
    Let the opinions commence!

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    posted 06-04-2000 09:54 PM PT (US)     

     Chris Kinsinger
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    Lonely Guy, you are asking such a PERSONAL, SUBJECTIVE question about the composer who scored Patton, Planet Of The Apes, The Blue Max, Hoosiers, The Russia House, The Boys From Brazil, Powder, Link, Runaway, Logan's Run... and a hundred other totally and completely different films with a WIDE variety of musical styles...

    I don't know how to answer your question!

    OK.

    "The Hunt" from Planet Of The Apes best personifies Goldsmith's style. He accompanies wild action by appropriating a variety of instruments to become one with the percussion, and then introduces an alien sound (the Shofar!) to accentuate the terror!

    How did I do, Lonely Guy???

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    posted 06-04-2000 10:21 PM PT (US)     

     Lonely Guy
     Oscar® Winner
     

    Hey Chris!
    I'm going to have to rephrase the question!
    MELODICALLY, what single piece of Goldsmith's music personifies his style?
    I may not be wording that just right to get my point across, but after a few more have responded, I'll offer my thoughts and examples.
    Me sleepy. Me go to bed nowZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ..oh, and Z!

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    posted 06-04-2000 10:28 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    Not an easy question. I think we should split this to accomodate the stylistic changes in Goldsmith's career. Of course his modern scores still has similarities to his earlier ones, but they still are really different.

    But I can't think of anything myself now.

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    posted 06-05-2000 03:45 AM PT (US)     

     logied
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    The Trees from Medicine Man was the first
    thing that popped into my mind. If I stopped
    and thought about it I know it would be like
    making sense of creation so it is better to
    go with the flow. From a pure sounding theme I KNOW it is Goldsmith, I would go with the theme from The Prize.
    OOOHHHH, I,ve got to stop, I,m beginning to
    think of more!!!!!

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    posted 06-05-2000 04:22 AM PT (US)     

     Brad Wills
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    Man oh man!! The answer may depend on which phase of his career you tend to focus on but I choose "Gift From The Sea" from PAPILLON.

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    posted 06-05-2000 07:30 AM PT (US)     

     Al
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    Good Lord. You know, this isn't like a taste test between Pepsi and Coca-Cola. This is very difficult. (and I'd pick Coca-Cola)

    If I had to pick one film score that would most represent his style (even though it changes so often), I would pick his score for The Twilight Zone Movie. There you have one of his most tear-jerking melodies, some of his suspense music, and one of his most rousing action/horror pieces. Sure, it won't even come close to representing the full genius that is Goldsmith, but it does represent his talents nicely.


    Really tough topic. Because how can you mention Twilight Zone without mentioning Papillon? And how can one mention Papillon and not Rudy? It could go on and on...

    [This message has been edited by Al (edited 05 June 2000).]

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    posted 06-05-2000 08:18 AM PT (US)     

     SPOR2
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    "Getting Aquainted" from SAND PEBBLES or, perhaps, 'The Enterprise' from ST: TMP.

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    posted 06-05-2000 10:52 AM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    "Bajo Fuego" from Under Fire, perhaps?

    this is such a broad question.

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    posted 06-05-2000 11:08 AM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    quote:
    Originally posted by JJH:
    "Bajo Fuego" from Under Fire, perhaps?

    My favourite track from the Essential Goldsmith compilation. I'm too lazy to dig out my FSM Goldsmith Guide right now - is the original score still available?

    NP: Essential Goldsmith

    [This message has been edited by Marian Schedenig (edited 05 June 2000).]

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    posted 06-05-2000 12:49 PM PT (US)     

     JoeInSanDiego
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    The Light from Poltergeist

    NP - A Perfect Murder (JNH)

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    posted 06-05-2000 01:25 PM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
    My favourite track from the Essential Goldsmith compilation. I'm too lazy to dig out my FSM Goldsmith Guide right now - is the original score still available?

    Unfortunately Under Fire is only available from high-priced ($100-$275) auctions. Soundtrack price engine listing.

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    posted 06-05-2000 08:09 PM PT (US)     

     Scott
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    Yess! Coke beats the blant Pepsi anytime.

    Anyway, I would go with Rudy (since atonal seems to be out these days).


    Enough said, getting back to Bach...

    Scott

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    posted 06-06-2000 07:33 AM PT (US)     

     Howard L
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    "I would pick his score for The Twilight Zone Movie. There you have one of his most tear-jerking melodies..."

    ATTN: AL, LONELY GUY

    Oh crap! On Sunday I had planned to ask Jerry about the final words to the Scatman lyrics but was too preoccupied with getting the story in his hands. Jim, can you ever forgive me?!

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    posted 06-06-2000 07:45 AM PT (US)     

     Al
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    Howard,

    I have wondered this myself a few times, and another topic gave me the idea to use the closed captioning feature. I do not have the movie myself, but maybe it would work?

    Scott,

    Good to know there are still Cocaholics out there and that the whole population is not going in the way of the Pepsi!


    NP: Goldsmith's "The Omen"

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    posted 06-06-2000 08:49 AM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    Pepsi tastes just as strange as Coca Cola Light.

    ND: Coca Cola

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    posted 06-06-2000 09:07 AM PT (US)     

     solarwnz
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     Oscar® Nominee
     

    I put Twilight Zone The Movie on just now and clicked off the sound to activate the closed caption text. Scatman's song goes like this, "Why you sittin around mopin?, Sittin around mopin? Just Listen to me. I'm sure that you will agree. Age means nothing to me." I find that last lyric line questionable as you can clearly hear Scatman sing a few more notes and sylables, but like you I couldn't make it out. It sounds like he says(and you're going to laugh at me for this) "Age means nothing, cause it's Beautifully." I know that doesn't make sense... Then again you really shouldn't trust the guy who thought the band Oasis was saying "Suped Up Chevy Nova" for the longest time. Maybe he says "skin deep" Or "Age means nothing cause it's new to me". Those are just guesses. Good luck.
    Oh yeah. My choice for the cue that best exemplifies Goldsmith's style is....ummm...you know what? I can't pick just one damn it! Okay, how about four? Legend - The Unicorns / ST: First Contact - End Credits / Total Recall - The Big Jump and the last one would have to be Rudy - Main Title. Sorry for cheating. Your test was too hard for me to narrow it down to one choice. Ciao!

    [This message has been edited by solarwnz (edited 06 June 2000).]

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    posted 06-06-2000 09:26 AM PT (US)     

     Nicolai P. Zwar
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    UNDER FIRE may well be one of the most valuable CDs I own. When I saw a few months ago that it has sold for as much as 275.- dollars, I almost couldn't believe it. I knew this thing is rare, but THAT rare. Wow. Some time ago I saw another copy of it offered in a record store for around $20.-. Though I knew it was a rare CD even then, I didn't buy it because I already had it, but now I really wish I had picked up the second copy to make a fellow film score collector happy).

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    posted 06-06-2000 09:37 AM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
     Oscar® Winner
     

    The cue "Over the Cliff" from FIRST BLOOD might be exemplary: beginning with the lonely Rambo trumpets, then escalating into the gorgeous Rambo-vs.-helicopter music (hmm, he battles helicopters in all three pictures.) One of Goldsmith's most evocative themes, and one of his best action cues, all in the same package -- except that in the film, they didn't roll together as they do on the album, they occur in different parts of the picture.

    "Bajo Fuego" keeps coming up, and that one certainly shows off a lot of his range. Although that one doesn't appear in the film at all.

    Now I'm thinking of the opening of THE FINAL CONFLICT, with its shift from the brooding "mortuorum/versus Christus" theme to the inspirational music for the monks who will oppose Damien.

    And now I'm thinking this is simply an impossible question.

    NP: lovely suite from THE LIST OF ADRIAN MESSENGER, as heard on "The Rocco Files: The Case of Jerry Goldsmith's Missing Music" (thanks again, Mr. Rutherford) (I've listened to this one alone several times already)

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    posted 06-06-2000 10:21 AM PT (US)     

     Rang
     Oscar® Winner
     

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ... enjoying a Coca-Cola CLASSIC as I write this ...

    From THE SECRET OF N.I.M.H., one of my favorites by Goldsmith ...

    1) Main Title - MELODIC
    2) Moving Day - ACTION
    3) The House Raising - ACTION / MELODIC

    Ahhhhhhh ... CLASSIC (in more ways than one)!

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    posted 06-06-2000 12:16 PM PT (US)     

     Lonely Guy
     Oscar® Winner
     

    Hey Rocco!
    You're actually on somewhat of the same wavelength that I am! One of the pieces I was thinking about was the END title from Final Conflict!
    Howard: I forgive you! Who was it that was saying he muted the sound on TZ? If any of you remember, I posted what I feel are THE lyrics that Scatman was singing. If y'all want me to reprint them I will... but tomorrow since I am too damned tired to go through my notebook and find them. Just remind me with a seperate posting and I'll do it!
    Howard again:
    I've been thinking about you today! I was listening to HOOSIERS all day!
    Later!
    NP- Neroli (Brian Eno)

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    posted 06-06-2000 09:14 PM PT (US)     

     Darth Fart
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    The lonely theme for Rambo, you actually feel for Rambo when those trumpets sound off.


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    posted 06-07-2000 12:47 AM PT (US)     

     Scott
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    That's right. Coke is da bomb

    Scott

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    posted 06-07-2000 08:26 AM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    "Bajo Fuego" does not appear in the film?

    I shall watch the movie again in the near future.

    Isn't there a stopry or somethign about Under Fire's album being a re-recording, or Goldsmith's re-working of the music for an album ?

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    posted 06-07-2000 01:41 PM PT (US)     

     Timmer
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    Having seen the film recently, I'd say the album for Under Fire is a re-recording!

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    posted 06-07-2000 06:05 PM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
     Oscar® Winner
     

    quote:
    Originally posted by Timmer:
    Having seen the film recently, I'd say the album for Under Fire is a re-recording!

    Hmm... if it is a re-recording, why doesn't some record company pick it up and say "Hey, there is money to be made here. There must be sufficient demand if the album is going for $250 a pop on the collectors market."

    I'm not taking into consideration all the legal crap, though


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    posted 06-07-2000 07:28 PM PT (US)     

     Chris Kinsinger
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    I found my copy of Under Fire in a very hot, tiny CD store in Manhattan three years ago. It was all the way in the back (under "U" of course), and I was sweating like crazy when I finally laid my hands on it. $16. It's a Warner Bros. Japanese Import!

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    posted 06-07-2000 08:16 PM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    Goldsmith rerecorded UNDER FIRE with Pat Metheny (who also performed the guitar solos for the OST) and the National Philharmonic, for Warner Bros. Records. Just as Goldsmith had rerecorded CAPRICORN ONE, THE SWARM and OUTLAND with the National for Warners in years past. Watching the movie, it seemed to me there wasn't that much actual score IN the film -- the (wonderful) album of UNDER FIRE could as easily be called "Themes and Variations on Ideas as Heard in UNDER FIRE." Goldsmith has written additional/different music for other albums as well, for projects as various as DAMIEN OMEN II and FIERCE CREATURES, neither of which, to his ear, had enough music in their scores to rate albums as they originally were.

    Goldsmith restructured all those scores for album purposes; this included writing or rewriting original cues such as "Bajo Fuego" and others not heard in, e.g., the final film version of UNDER FIRE.

    Warners has been among the most notoriously difficult of major American labels to deal with; hence, it's a miracle we even got the GNP/Crescendo version of CAPRICORN ONE/OUTLAND. The Japanese issue of UNDER FIRE must have come about because the legalisms in Japan are somewhat different than those one must deal with Stateside.

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    posted 06-07-2000 09:41 PM PT (US)     

     Lorien
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    Lonely Guy asked which single cue (melodically) personifies Jerry Goldsmith's style. Great topic! To my delight, I must agree completely with Brad Willis. When I read the question, "Gift from the Sea" from Papillon immediately popped into mind, and it stayed as I thought things through. It's melodic, and the melody moves about the orchestra. It's occasionally rhythmic more than melodic, but without losing any consistency in it's beautiful, almost lilty tone.

    The only competitor was "It's a Good Life" from Twilight Zone: The Movie, which I've decided should be a tie for me. It has one of those lovely eerie melodies I tend only to find in Mr. Goldsmith's music (similarly done in "The Monument" from Logan's Run, and in much of ST:TMP and Poltergeist). It also has Wacky Noises, which could be said to hearken back to Planet of the Apes' salad bowls and forward to The Burbs' sampled dogs and such. And strings? Does anyone use them more lavishly, and has he ever done more so than at the end of this cue? (okay, arguably yes to both, but I'm making a point)


    "The Light" from Poltergeist is a pretty close second (third), one I honestly might not have come up with had not I seen it suggested by JoeInSanDiego. It covers many of the emotional bases though, I think.

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    posted 06-08-2000 04:47 AM PT (US)     

     Lonely Guy
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    Well, Lorien,
    You, too, mentioned another example I was thinking about! The Monument from Logan's Run. In particular that solo flute passage, a 9 note theme. I've always felt that that was a Goldsmith "invention" if you will. I've never heard anyone else ever use that "phrase" before. I know that that isn't the correct terminology, but it's the best I can do.I'm sure there's a proper term for that close grouping of notes. Anyone know what it is?
    Ciao! I have to get on the personals webpages so I can eventually change my moniker from Lonely Guy to no LONGER Lonely Guy!

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    posted 06-08-2000 09:20 PM PT (US)     

     Darth Fart
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    I've seen Under Fire, a good film but the score is almost hidden in it.

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    posted 06-08-2000 11:58 PM PT (US)     

     Howard L
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    Hey Lorien & anyone else, steer over to the "For Rocco and others..." thread for some more discussion of "The Light." 'S one of my faves, too.

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    posted 06-09-2000 07:13 AM PT (US)     

     big steve
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    In a nutshell, the single Goldsmith piece that best personifies all that is Jerry...the main title from THE GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY.

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    posted 06-14-2000 02:16 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    Yes and no. It is definitely the piece that turned me into a Goldsmith fan, but it's too different from his modern, more minimalistic approach to call it "Jerry in a nutshell", I think. Maybe "70's Jerry in a nutshell", though.

    NP: RoboCop 2 (Rosenman)

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    posted 06-14-2000 04:46 PM PT (US)     
     

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