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      ARGH!! More CD-R problems!!

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    Topic:   ARGH!! More CD-R problems!!

     dantoris
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    Okay, awhile back I asked if anybody experienced the problem where the CD-R will be recording, and just 4 seconds into the track, will stop for no apparent reason.

    Well, now I've got another problem. Recording music from a videotape/DVD, I need to use "Record Manual." So I press the "Rec Type" button until I get to "Record Manual." It comes up and says "Wait," then when it should go to "Press Record," it instead stops and says "Update," then just sits there. And I did nothing for it do so. (The first time it did this, I turned the power off to re-set everything, and when I turned it back on, it said "Error," and I lost the disc.) After several moments, it goes back to where I can set it again to "Record Manual" and everything works fine, but it becomes quite annoying, as it seems to happen about every 18-19 tracks.

    Any guesses why it does this? I have a Philips single-tray recorder, if this helps.

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    posted 05-29-2000 01:05 PM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
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    I'm not familiar at all with those audio cd-recorders (but I do have a CD-R in my computer)...

    Have you tried a different brand of CD-R media? It's worth a try!

    Good luck!

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    posted 05-29-2000 01:14 PM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    I can't afford to buy a different recorder everytime I find a problem with one.

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    posted 05-29-2000 01:37 PM PT (US)     

     sabbey
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    I think he means the discs themselves not the hardware.

    Regards,
    Sean Robert Abbey

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    posted 05-29-2000 03:47 PM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    Oh. Well, as a matter of fact, my first batch of CDRs were TDKs (experienced it three times with them). I'm currently using MAXELLs, and just today had one experience each of both problems I mentioned above.

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    posted 05-29-2000 04:01 PM PT (US)     

     logied
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    I,m not clear, is this a computer CDR recorder or a stand alone recorder?

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    posted 05-29-2000 05:11 PM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    It's a stand alone one.

    In the time since my 1:37 post, none of the mentioned problems have happened again. But like I said, it doesn't happen a lot, but it's extremely annoying when it does.

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    posted 05-29-2000 05:17 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    I have no experience with using stanbd alone machines, but I LOVE my computer's CD drive.

    Making CDRs is almost hassle free.
    No glitches, and no frikkin' annoying 2-second gaps (I do believe I am the only person on the planet, other than Shaun, that seems to realize the importance of eliminating this gap to make a good CDR -- especially if you have continuous tracks).

    I highly suggest them for the computer, assuming, of course, you can afford to get one soon.

    NP -- Carter Burwell compilation. trying to think of a title...

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    posted 05-29-2000 06:17 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    JJH, agreed with everything.

    Dantoris: It might still be a media problem. There are only 10 or so different producers of CD-R media, so maybe TDK and MAXELL are in fact the same. Or your recorder simply has problems with both brands. Or, your recorder might be badly adjusted. Don't know what to do in this case, sorry.

    NP: Man in the Iron Mask (it was a present)

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    posted 05-30-2000 04:11 AM PT (US)     

     ChrisN
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    The CD-R media that you use has to be for real time recording. CD-R media for high speed writers (2x, 4x, 8x,) has a thinner layer to record on. For real time recording, I use Taiyo Yuden's, for high speed writers I use Mitsui's. I had alot of the problems that you are describing until I switched media.

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    posted 05-30-2000 01:40 PM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    What is real-time recording? Recording synch, or one piece at a time, like I'm doing (and do most of the time)?

    Where do I find these Taiyo Yudens? I've never seen those. (I'm assuming these are another brand of CDR discs?)

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    posted 05-30-2000 05:09 PM PT (US)     

     ChrisN
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    Real time is to record just like you're hearing it, instead of a high speed recording. Taiyo are available from most CD-R dealers like Project One, Imperial Tape Co. etc. They're the ones that most mastering studios swear by....

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    posted 05-30-2000 05:56 PM PT (US)     

     sabbey
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    Hey dantoris!

    Have you thought of taking your recorder to be looked at by an repair service?

    Regards,
    Sean Robert Abbey

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    posted 05-31-2000 12:56 AM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    Well, I wanted to see if was something I was doing (wrong discs, etc.) before taking it in.

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    posted 05-31-2000 01:08 AM PT (US)     

     sabbey
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    And that would be the smart choice. Though after awhile, it probably might be your only option, rather than buying an new recorder.

    BTW, I hear the computer versions are better than stand-alone ones. Have you thought of getting one for your computer? That is if you do indeed ever replace the one you are currently using.

    Regards,
    Sean Robert Abbey

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    posted 05-31-2000 01:39 AM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    I have thought about getting a computer one recently. Mainly because I've got a ton of television theme songs in .wav files that I want to put on a CD to listen elsewhere.

    But with a computer CDR, how do you record stuff from a videotape or DVD? With a regular CD, you just copy the tracks from it to your hard drive, then to the CDR, correct? Is recording from a videotape/DVD even possible with a computer CDR? (I think somebody told me it was. Now I think about, I have a feeling they were pulling my leg.)

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    posted 05-31-2000 01:42 AM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    It's going to depend on your sound card and how good it is. If it is a good card with with decent DAC, then you can hook just about any audio source you want up to your computer.

    With the right sound card, you can go straight digital from a stand alone DVD.

    You maybe able to do this with a video turner/capture card as well.

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    posted 05-31-2000 07:46 AM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    If you don't have a good soundcard, you can still rip CDs digitally to the hard disk. With a good CD-ROM drive - or the burner itself -, this produces perfect copies).

    You can also rip the DVD files to your hard drive, extract the audio streams and convert them to wav. With the proper tools, this gives you the best possible quality. Needs LOTS of hard disk space, though (several gigabytes).

    NP: The Omen: The Essential Jerry Goldsmith Film Music Collection (Under Fire)

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    posted 05-31-2000 09:24 AM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    Plug your VCRs output into your computer Line-In. I do this. Don't have video, but the sound is fine. I set my computer's Volume control, in the lower right, to "Recording."

    And I have a program called DART CD Recorder (It's not the best, but far from the worst), that I use to do this with my LPs, etc. You have to tweak the balance to get it right, and it never sounds bvery good coming out the computer, but on CD, the sound is Mahhvellous. It works on thre same principle, like if your dubbing a cassette tape-- press the record button, and all.

    that's how I captured some unreleased Burwell cues.

    and of course, to rip from a CD, just tell it read the tracks, and convert to a WAV file. but you already knew that.

    and when you burn the CD, eliminate the 2 second gap.


    Np -- Hamlet, Carter Burwell. This is oe of those Varese CDs with the knew labels and numbering.

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    posted 05-31-2000 11:56 AM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    What exactly is the two second gap? The space in between tracks, like on regular CDs? Personally, I like a good 3 second gap between tracks, just so everything doesn't sound like it runs together.

    [This message has been edited by dantoris (edited 31 May 2000).]

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    posted 05-31-2000 02:03 PM PT (US)     

     Sean Bires
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    Just record whatever into a WAV file, and then burn that in CD-audio format.

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    posted 05-31-2000 02:25 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    Here's why I dislike the 2 second gap:

    some CD players like mine for instance, get screwed up with those gaps.

    Closing that gap allows tracks that are normally supposed to run together, to actually run together seamlessly.
    Otherwise, a lot of the tracks my have the ends cut off.

    Now my software does allow you to expand the gap, and it works fine for what I have, but sometimes, it puts a big "pop" at the start of a track. And I've gotten a lot of CDR from people just like that, with the tracks cutting off, or huge digital pops. very annoying, so I always make mine without gap (Disc at Once).



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    posted 05-31-2000 02:49 PM PT (US)     

     dantoris
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    So that means the player will read the CD has having on one track? I kinda understand what you're saying, but not really. I've never experienced the "pop" sound on CDRs I've gotten from other people.

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    posted 05-31-2000 03:00 PM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    No, it's not all one track, it just doesn't add a two second gap.

    Most tracks on most CD's are mastered with a 1 second gap at the end and beginning. Disc-at-once just doesn't add any extra gap.

    For example, lets say that track one of the Squirrel Nut Zippers “Perennial Favorites “ album actually plays into track 2 (Which it does). If I burn track at once, it is going to put a gap in there that doesn’t belong and the song will cut off early.

    I record all my CDs Disc at Once and I get a small gap between tracks if that was what was supposed to be there.

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    posted 05-31-2000 09:05 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    The "2 seconds gap" appears when you don't write the audio CD using "disc at once" (DAO). Then the CD will have 2 seconds of complete silence between every 2 tracks. Simply burn your CDs with DAO enabled and you'll have exactly the same pauses between tracks as on the original.

    NP: The Omen: The Essential Jerry Goldsmith Film Music Collection

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    posted 06-01-2000 05:53 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    I LOVE the burning software that I have.

    I can eliminate all the gaps between tracks, or place a gap wherever I want, and for as long a time as I want.

    Works well if I am putting 2 musically distant scores onto 1 CDR.

    NP -- Burwell compilation. Being John Malkovich

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    posted 06-01-2000 06:01 PM PT (US)     

     Ellen B Edgerton
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    I didn't realize that controlling the duration of the gap between tracks on CDRs was such a problem for some... I have a Mac, so I use Adaptec Toast, which gives you complete control over the length of the gaps between tracks.
    The only problem is that Toast still leaves a tiny gap even when you specify "0 seconds" between tracks; but
    I can also rip CD tracks using SoundJam, my MP3 player, which has an option where you can join two adjacent CD tracks into a single track, which eliminates the problem completely.

    Macs are cool. :-)

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    posted 06-05-2000 10:21 AM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    It's not a problem. Just some CDRs I get have these blasted gaps, and sometimes they won't play.

    I can always control the gaps in my CDRs, as anyone should be able to.

    NP -- Sneakers, James Horner

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    posted 06-05-2000 11:01 AM PT (US)     

     Laurence Page
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    All this talk of gaps made me write in.
    I've just purchases a Pioneer CD-R recorder - I'm very pleased with it but an hour ago noticed that the CD I copied yesterday (The Great Train Robbery) has the start of some of the tracks cut-off (the original CD has gaps of 5 seconds or more - longer than most CDs). However the "Wild Rovers" (copied from the same CD) seems fine - but the gaps from that score seem just as long as "Train" but without the problems. I understand my machine goes into a kind of Record-Pause after 5 seconds and copies any digital signal following that pause - but it seems to have missed the opening second or so. Has anyone else had this occuring? I'm very pleased with all other recordings and am hoping it's a fault with the original CD (1990 release).
    Thanks!

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    posted 06-06-2000 06:53 AM PT (US)     

     majestyx
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    This is kinda off-topic from the original subject, but keeping in line with other discussions...JJH and Shaun aren't the only ones with problems with 2-second gaps and loud pops in between tracks. For all who visit my website and want to trade, I have posted a "trading manifesto" which helps to explain the DAO vs. TAO problem, in addition to other annoying things that were hard-learned when trading:
    http://majestyx.8m.com/scores/traderules.html

    I suppose it all started a long while back when many CD replication houses required a DAT master to have 2-second gaps between tracks in order for a CD to be mastered properly. This was one of the audio standards at the time (I forget which one, but they call them a (color) book standard, with color being red, orange, etc.) Obviously this requirement needed to be changed for any live recordings and albums which bled one track into another, such as The Beatles' ABBEY ROAD or, speaking soundtracks, the Buffy Season Two promo. The problem got worse when CD burners were introduced for computers, because many were incapable of writing DAO so any disc copied on it would have a 2-second silent gap between each track. This perpetuates itself on each generation. So if the disc originally had a 2 second gap and a copy was made of it, then a copy of the copy was made, there would now be 6 seconds of silence between tracks on this third generation copy.

    As an interesting aside, the gap between tracks can actually have audio data. A few discs placed audio data in these gaps which would be ignored by a CD burner using track at once becuase it wasn't SUPPOSED to have data there, thus the beginnings and ends of tracks being cut off. I can think of one CD in particular - Tom Petty's FULL MOON FEVER - which had about a 30 second countdown which marked the end of "side one". However, in this 30 second countdown between tracks (your CD player's display will show a negative time and will count down to zero) Tom Petty informs the CD listener that this is the place where you would be flipping the LP or cassette.

    Back to the subject, my main gripes are 1) subsequent copies made from TAO discs usually end up with the loud pops in between tracks because the gaps are read as errors and the pop is a "correction" the drive makes and 2) the obviously annoying listening experience when tracks are not supposed to have these gaps.

    If you burn CDs using a computer CDR/CDRW drive, use a quality program such as Nero Burning ROM or GoldenHawk's CDRWin. Avoid EZ CD Creator at all costs!

    [This message has been edited by majestyx (edited 06 June 2000).]

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    posted 06-06-2000 12:19 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    IIRC, CDDA (= audio CDs) use the Red Book standard.

    Anyway, Sedares' Magnificient Seven recording was one of the first CDs I copied - and still has those stupid 2 seconds everywhere in-between.

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    posted 06-06-2000 03:04 PM PT (US)     
     

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