Coming here used to be fun. A place to enjoy film scores with others. But now it seems to have become just a big endless bitch-fest. I am saddend by these turn of events.

dave

I was discouraged when I heard that Elfman wasen't doing the score to MI-2. But after watching the movie, I can say that elfman's stlye would not have gone well with it and I think Zimmer had a great idea by using a small band. I'm waiting for a score album with my money in hand.

NP - (dead air, how boring)

my sentiments exactly. I used to be unable to wait to come to moviemusic.com. The information and conversations were funny, respectable and always useful (well, most of the time). Now, if I don't get to drop by, I don't feel as bad. The site has changed. I mainly come back because of certain people and because I think Peter K is the greatest and I appreciate his efforts here.

Ohhh how I long how it used to be...

People as want things to be like they were and of course they won't be. Bad news, it gets worse as you get older. Just wait until you drive down the streets you used to play on and cruise 20 years ago. All the shops have changed, landmarks are torn down, vacant lots have strip centers in them. The theater you saw your first BIG movie is now a Hancock fabric store. Face it, the one constant is change. It is adapt or die, gentlemen.

I was here before the FSM implosion, but I was a regular on that board. I remember what this board was like then. I spent more time on FSM because most of what was here was lists of people saying what they liked, short threads with no in-depth discussion, only a few new posts a day.

I like it much better now as there is much livelier discussion and greater depth of knowledge. This board needed to grow. It needed more viewpoints and an influx of immigrants was just what the doctor ordered.

While I regret the rudeness that I see here, I also have to say that it is endemic to conversations on the internet. People flame because they can and because there are no consequences for unspeakable rudeness. Further, Let me also point that what you take as rudeness may just be lack of information.

When it comes to communicating with others 70 % of what the other person “Hears” comes from body language, 23% comes from tone of voice, 7% from the words we actually say. Sometimes what we take as rudeness is simply the fact that we are missing 93% of the message.

Tolerance is always appreciated. I suggest we all practice it!

Today I preach tolerance like MWRuger (but I still wonder where this NEW "depth" is).

Tomorrow things will get ugly.

Yesterday I would've been gone from the site.

mlw--
Thank you for further exemplifying Dave's point.

As far as the GODZILLA VS. GIGAN CD, let's remember that it's comprised MOSTLY of cues from EARLIER Ifukube Godzilla scores -- and a few from BOSS OF THE UNDERWORLD (1959) and BIRTH OF THE JAPANESE ISLANDS (1970). Ifukube didn't write a note of original stuff for it. The film's sole original composition is by Kunio Miyauchi, that song Mr. Ware mentioned.

Oh... how cute!

Unfortunately black/white characterization of people isn't my strong...
My favorite was always Snake Plissken, you know.

But I can feel your pain, althought the only thing I can say is: WELCOME TO PLANET EARTH folks.
I hope all of you can go back to Wonderland some day. In the mean time, try to relax and enjoy.

I know, I know... Now I'm going to be humiliated and punished by all the DEFENDERS OF VIRTUE AND MORALITY from this board...

I believe Scott, Jeron, and I were discussing this same subject! The proportion of negative and positive comments was lop-sided.

First off, I try not to bash any composer. Because, truthfully, composing music for film is one of the most difficult jobs! Every composer has a style or a niche and some people will obviously not like it. Unfortunately, they post ridiculous messages and absolutely BASH it!

We all love filmmusic, that is why we are here! So, let's talk about why we love it, instead of bashing a composer for one or a few scores! God knows, that every single composer has a bad score once in awhile.

This topic sure brought out some people I have not seen grace this board in a while!
Dave, Scott(although I do talk to you quite frequently), and Norman; glad to see you guys back!!!

Thanks,
Aaron

The negative sides of a score is one thing, but nobody ever talks about the positive..at least not in the last couple of weeks. I always try to post positive replies when applicable, but sometimes its just unavoidable to respond to a negative post in a negative way...I guess that's just the inner circle of human feelings. Negative never causes positive...only the Negative. Negative with a positve side, however, brings mixed results, and that is where the cool posts and discussions come from. Like for example, if I were to say "The film Star Trek: The Motion Picture was a dull movie with a dragging story that was no more than a display of special effects. However, whatever story was there was quite intriguing, and I also enjoyed Jerry Goldsmith's masterful score, which definatly benifeted the lack of everything else..." people would suddenly say stuff like, "Where I disagree with you on one level, this level is definately noteworthy...I also loved the score "

I don't see "SO much crying" here on this board. I don't see that coming here is no fun anymore. Sebulba wrote "But of course, the bigger you get, the more controversy and disagreements, and sometimes bad seeds". That's very true, of course, though I don't see anything bad in controversy. I mean, that's what discussion boards are for, are they not? To exchange ideas, to challenge or defend opinions, to inspire others to re-think certain things and to get challenged to re-think own held believes. Now I've known this board for a while, and I see it now, and most of what I see is simply a whole lot of people exchanging views about things. I do not see lots of ugly attacks on other posters or mean spirited postings on this board.

There's a big difference between having a hundred or more people post here or just a dozen, and it's a difference in tone and style. Obviously, a twelve people only board makes a more homogenous group, usually with very little going on because nothing gets really discussed. If you draw more people, you get more opinions. Some people believe GLADIATOR to be one of the finest film scores of the year, while others believe it to be a mere bunch of noise. Big deal! If you don't wish to have your views and believes challenged you must protect yourself from the rest of the world. Some people dislike Hans Zimmer, others see in him the future of modern film scoring, some can't take Leonard Rosenman's atonal soundscapes, others hold him in the highest regard. Anybody's entitled to their tastes. Some posters here are in their fifties and sixties, others are just teens or early twenties, some are mainstream oriented, some prefer exotic film scores no one ever heard of, posters here come from all over the world; obviously, you get different opinions here. But this board does not seem to be designed for just a dozen people.

Exchanging different viewpoints (or sometimes being just plain silly) IS fun. IMO. And there is nothing that's sad about the developement of this message board. In the Internet film score community, this board is fairly new. And it has become in little time one of the most beloved and best visited film score message boards on the web. Why? Because it has a terrific design, allows for a multitude of discussions, boasts a whole array of very diverse posters and opinions, and threads that are of little or no interest to anyone or can easily be ignored by anyone who chooses to do so. If that's sad, I don't know what's uplifting?

Dave wrote "coming here used to be fun". Well, coming here is fun, that's the only reason I come here at all, because it is fun. That's why others come here, because it is fun. And it is fun because of the very people who are visiting this board. Thumbs up to you all!

The onus falls upon YOU to correct what you see is wrong, either by creating new posts or by responding to existing threads in ways that you feel would be more effective than how other people are doing so.

This is not to say that you're completely wrong in saying that there are some people around who are merely mean-spirited. There will always be those, but I think for the most part when someone mentions a score they didn't like, a lot of people are pouncing on them and forcing those posters onto the defensive.

One of the articles I wrote for FSM had a little piece where I mention how limp I found James Horner's score for "Braveheart," especially when compared to the complexity and drama of Alex North's "Spartacus" score, which dealt with some very similar issues. Plenty of people assumed that I was bashing Horner and sent me various e-mails on the subject. I thought I was doing a simple critical contrast (this was an aside, as well, not the main point of the article), and yet people were getting very annoyed at me for having an opinion they didn't like.

Say no more, please.
Lets just be happy.

Cheers...!

For example:

rec.music.classical:
a haven for people who lust for Hitler now

rec.music.movies:
pretty cool, though some people really don't mind responding in a smart-ass way.
Also has lots of unrelated topics posted. Some will note the EyeBlowGlass post.

Any rock music newsgroup:
Full of hatred and people calling each other names. Okay, REALLY bad names. they let the expletives fly, baby!

Filmtracks:
I remain undecided. It's the same 15 people over and over and over again. getting a mite boring. I also find that I disagree with about 75% of the reviews the webmaster writes (he gave Patrick Williams' Jesus 4 stars and a lame, inappropriately sarcastic review, whereas I give it 2 stars just for the effort of composing it.

I like this board. If FSM starts back up, I might go back, but it's easier here, now that I've adjusted.

I certainly can appreciate the many comments to Dave's post. I wouldn't call myself a cry baby or anything and I do recognize the great knowledge shared here. Yet, there are certain individuals...or shall I say there seems to be certain individuals who are always negative. I ask myself why?

I, among otheres were told to get out of my Wonderland and face reality. Reality does not consist out of fould mouthed, degrating always negative and disrespectful conversation. Reality has nothing to do with regretting that better times are gone. Reality is reality and I for one know what reality is, believe me. I have seen the good in this world and have witnessed the ugly. I have seen people being helped and rescued and have been next to one being shot to death. I have moved to a city with nothing but strangers and just $50.00 in my pocket. I have seen and continue to see people on drugs who at one time were successful business people and suddenly die because of an overdose. I see prostiution, murder mayhem and so much more ugliness and desmay. I see and hear people shouting at each other inventing new names for other human beings. I have seen racesim and oh my soooo much more.

Why I ask then, would I want to visit more ugliness and disrespect on a site that was created for people who love "LOVE" filmusic if I can just walk out of the door and see it there. Well, the people out there don't apreciate this music, but I wander if some of us really are here because we love and appreciate scores, or because we have no one else to offend, bother, or repulse or whatever.

So if you choose to tell me that I don't know reality and live in a wonderland, fine. I will glady pay a ticket for you to fly here and see how long you can last in this side of town.

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scott (edited 26 May 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Scott (edited 26 May 2000).]

We sit here typing away on the computer expressing our views and argue and bicker and celebrate and applaud....and we forget one thing--silence. If we were all to sit in a big forum, and pop in a CD, what would we all feel then? The music speaks for all then.

Or do you all like being interrupted when you are listening to your favorite music? Or even better, having people talk continously while you are listening to your favorite score? There's my comparison with fantasy and reality. We listen to music to get as far away as possible from the "real" world, or to "make" the world fit the melody of the music, thus a soundtrack of sorts. It's not so much that we don't know what the real world is like out there. It's more of the fact that we wish to take a break from it, but we know full well that we can never escape it, but merely alleviate our pains and suffering with the help from our favorite music.

We just want to be able to fly without having to come crashing down, but instead land with a gentle descent. Scott knows. I know it as well, and I am sure each and everyone of you do, too.

I use the ROYAL "we" not to be specific, and I realize that not necessarily everyone will agree with me. I accept the fact that there's always two sides (and more) to everything. And THAT, is reality.

By the way, by constantly responding to this post will only aggravate those negative responses that some of the repliers didn't want to see in the first place.

Can we just be friends now, even not agreeing with the works of one or two film music composers?

Our daily meeting place was taken away from us.

Tell me something, fellas...if PeterK announced that this message board would be HISTORY tomorrow because he was going bankrupt...WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

I think at least ONE OF YOU would do the very same thing that I did.

You would search for a place to stay together.

Dave, I am very sorry that you're not happy here anymore.

I am very sorry that you are offended by some of the things that are being said.

My message to YOU is simply this:

Grow up and get over it...or check out of Planet Earth.

I just LOVE the fact that so many posters at this board will go on and on about Sci-Fi & FANTASY movies about alien civilizations...BUT THEY CANNOT ADJUST TO A FEW EARTH-BROTHERS WITH DIFFERING OPINIONS!!!

Good God, Dave!

He just spanked you on the butt.

But he LOVES you!

PS: He's done the same for ME!

Pretending that everything is "ok" and "back to normal" is just like shoving it under the carpet and ignoring the fact that there is a problem. As far as negativity goes... well, I simply look past it for the most part. I care about every single person on this board, but I'm not going to let their bad attitudes bring me down. If anything, I want to serve as an example of someone who CAN be positive and happy in dire times. I for one think that everyone on this board has something to offer. I do see the problem Dave, Scott, Tim, and the rest are pointing out. I'm not going to let those of you who are constantly negative keep me from enjoying what Peter Kelly has put in place. My attitude is this: By God, I'm a charter member and was here with the rest of my friends when this site was in pre-launch. I always look forward to checking on new posts. I always look forward to conversing with my friends. It's a little maddening that all of those who I used to enjoy conversing w/ have now gone. But hey, I'm not one to give up. I'll deal with the negativity and see this thing through. There's a silver lining in every grey cloud and if I have to be that silver lining, then gosh darn it I'm silver.

People, just ignore the negativity. The devil loves company... of course, if he hasn't got any then why should he stay? Rocco, Joan, Howard and the rest all have wonderful input. I look forward to conversing w/ them on a daily basis. And while I am saddened by the fact that I'm the last of a dying member base, I've got to look ahead and enjoy what I've got right now. Just as with life, you've got to take the good with the bad and make the most of it.

Now I have a few words for our friend Chris Kinsinger who thought he would be very clever to type some things that he knows little about.
1. "I am very sorry that you are offended by some of the things that are being said."

-I am not offended by anything said here. I am unhappy with the level of thought that is being put into many of the posts. Sort of like the assumptions you make about me.

2.My message to YOU is simply this:

Grow up and get over it...or check out of Planet Earth.

I just LOVE the fact that so many posters at this board will go on and on about Sci-Fi & FANTASY movies about alien civilizations...BUT THEY CANNOT ADJUST TO A FEW EARTH-BROTHERS WITH DIFFERING OPINIONS!!!

-I think you forget that Sci-Fi and Fantasy movies are just that...MOVIES. You suspend your disbelief and you enjoy them. Take them at face value for what they are, entertainment. Its the "Earth-Brothers" that we have to live with. They are the 'stupid' reality that we have to put up with in our day to day life. And that is what is frightening. You expect me and others to dumb ourselves down just to listen to some less then thought about comments. Just because you have an opinion, and a mouth(or a computer), doesn't mean you can voice it with out repercutions. Back up what you have to say intelligently, because if you don't there will always be someone there to question you and put you in your place.

3. "Good God, Dave! Do you ever get OUT?"

- I work for a newspaper so I am very well informed with local and world events.
- I just completed my 2nd degree in college. I was a Resident Director there for the past 2 years.
-Twice a week I work with grade-school to middle-school kids in a after school program focusing on art.
-I Rollerblade, mountain bike, hike, run, weight train, and practice martial arts.
-I paint draw and sculpt.
-I have a wonderful and beautiful girlfriend from Spain.
-And last but not least....I collect Movie Scores.

There you go Chris...I hope this is satisfactory under your 'guide lines' for "Geting Out." Be careful with what you say. It may just blow up in your face.

dave

NP : Gladiator

The only thing I noticed is that some Hans Zimmer's younger fans get very upset when someone express a negative opinion towards one of his scores. It's always the same history...

I think this is how their minds work:
"Hans Zimmer is GOD + THAT guy wrote a bad review about "Gladiator" = I'LL HATE THAT GUY FOREVER NO MATTER WHAT HE WRITES FOR NOW ON!!"

Jeron

I thought we were all going to point fingers at each other, start a riot, and then electronically rip each other's livers out.

*sigh*

no one pays me to adopt a standard of decorum when I say what I think about a score.
I'm not saying someone should be as obnoxious s they wanna be, but hey, some people are pretty colorful. If someone says "musical diarrhea" more power to them!

why is that any different than me writing that "Battlefield Earth made me blow chunks, it was so bad? It is cinematic poopie."

Your bro,
Jeron

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:

I think it would be better if we just understand that no one here, that I know of, has anything personal against the other. [/B]

---

Exactly. I mean, when one criticizes a movie or a film score, one is not criticizing the people who like it. And terms like "musical diarreha" can be totally appropriate if it gets the point accross. This is not to say that I believe the GLADIATOR score to be just that... (I have not even heard it yet; I'm going to see the movie next week.) It's just that now I know what Andre thinks of the music.

No one is forcing me or anybody else here to agree with that, and anybody is free to post a different point of view.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nicolai P. Zwar:

Exactly. I mean, when one criticizes a movie or a film score, one is not criticizing the people who like it.

---

Unfortunately, it can sometimes appear that way. However I think that is more about just
reading others words, without body language and tone of voice.

Personally that is why I heavily use those smile faces. Since it helps to get across my thoughts better than not using them IMO.

Regards,
Sean Robert Abbey

you couldn't hurt a fly!
bring it on, fool!

NP -- Sleepy Hollow DVD, goodness I love my DVD-ROM.

There are people here who dismiss someone's sensitivity to the tone level at which some groups discuss filmscore, etc. The "bashing", the "bickering", the "value judgments"- these things people are going to do, no matter what. But to say "Get over it" and face reality to me imposes a value judgment that someone's tastes, how they like to communicate, and enjoy entertainment are not worth respecting. Again, this is my opinion. What is worht noting here is everyone has the right to their opinion, the right to beat a dead horse, to bash, or to bicker. I've never had a problem with the FSM people here. And while I reserve certain opinions about their comments, and some about the FSM itself (and it's tone), I choose to act in this manner, whenever possible: If I read something I don't like, I choose not to react to it. It's pointless to argue with someone who feels absolute in the value of anything. I like movies. I like filmscores- it's as simple as that for me and I hate being "brought to Jesus" (as it were) about my tastes, but if I don't like something- it's just like if something I'm disgusted by is on T.V. - I change channels or turn it off and do something productive.

If someone decides not to come here anymore by his choice, I think it would be more gracious to welcome them at anytime, rather than to run them out of town. I've seen that happen. IF I've been a part of it, I'm not proud to say that I am. People come here to communictae with others about something they love. Being brought to task for it is not healthy mentally or worth the time it takes. It's not enough to be mature about it, it takes more tact and grace and ethics than some people care to use- and that's alright! It's that person that some take issue with that has to live with himself as each of us has to do everyday. So let's not dismiss somebody's feelings, and let's show a little maturity about how we address each other here. I'll start with me, and if I'm alone in my "crusade", then so be it. I came here looking for information and a little conversation. Being a humanist, I may oversimplify things, but that's just how I see it.