What can I say about "Gladiator"?

- The screenplay and characters are so shallow, naive and repetitive that makes you wonder if it was writen by some 16 year old boys.

- The fight scenes are horrible photographed. Can't see almost anything.

- The CGI effects are very poor (and that blue filter makes it look even worst).

- Hans Zimmer parts of the score are simply ridiculous. The guy "composed" a heroic macho-man theme (what else is news) for a movie that's suposed to be about treason, tragedy, violence and revenge... Except for the Lisa Garret's parts (very similar to "The Insider"), the rest of the score is really ridiculous and anoying. Everytime that unbelievable Choom-choom-choom theme appeared I expected to see a muscled guy driving a truck with a beer on his hands saying: "New Budwiser beer - for big honchos only!!". Really embarrassing...

All in all, the movie looks like a 2 and 1/2 hour MTV videoclip - and a bad one.

After this "Gladiator" Ridley Scott and Zimmer could just retire from business. It will save them from all this humiliation...

NP- A World Apart (Hans Zimmer)

As for the picture itself, if you want to know what I really thought about it then just figure out the exact opposite of your comments.

There were only two things I didn't like about this movie... 1) It had more gore than necessary, 2) the sound effects were way overdone (arrows sounded more like whips cracking, incredibly loud thuds for every punch, etc.)

I also strongly disagree with your comment about 16-year-old boys. Based on magazines from different schools, I know several 16-year-olds who can write marvelous material.

No offense Andre, you can get whatever you want to get out of it, I'm just compelled to disagree.

The only sad thing about this movie, except for Lisa Gerrard's vocal tune (probably the one you was talking about above), is that I paid 16 bucks to see that anoying frape of "Conan, the Barbarian" + "Ben Hur" + "Spartacus" + "Braveheart" with a score much worst than "Titanic" by far... More unswallowable than this only a meal of rotten sausages!

quote:

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Originally posted by TimT:
You think the theme from The Rock and Crimson Tide sound the same? and you think both of them sound like the main theme in Gladiator?
....uh...I don't think you've heard any of those scores have you?

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Tim, I have. Unfortunately.

You guys don't have to agree with me, you know... But you won't convince me that this Zimmer can compose.
Sorry.

It bugs me that people can be so rude and narrow minded. Making all these really offensive comments. And it's kinda pointless becuase noone is going to listen to them and Hans Zimmer or the composer being bashed will not likley ever read thier comments. I mean why would you bash about a composer to us? As if we can do something about it! Tell the composer!. and the same goes with a director being bashed.

I'm curious as to why a person who totaly hates Han Zimmer would go into a topic titled something like "ATTN all Hans Zimmer Fans" in the first place? But these are the people who are the first to post a reply!

Heres what I think about Gladiator...I thought it was an ok film, sure somethings were wrong with it. It wasn't perfect. But I never take movies seriously, and don't let a few errors or things I disagree with bother me from enjoying the whole film. Overall I felt it was enjoyable.
As for the score I think it did alright in the movie, there are 2 parts in the film that I thought was scored ridiculously. But theres alot more to like. The orchestrations were simular to the Peacemaker in the action areas but it didn't use anything from it, nor Crimson Tide which I have no idea where the heck you heard that in there, nor the Rock wich is not even Zimmer's score. It's true there were some references to Prince of Eygpt and Fools of Fortune that I noticed. But so what, every composer has a style that they repeat in every score. Thats how we identify them, and say "Oh that sounds like Goldsmith!"

....but anyway what does it matter what I think about Gladiator, since it's making millions of dollars?

-NP I Dreamed of Africa (Maurice Jarre) 5/5

quote:

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Originally posted by TimT:
[B] It bugs me that people can be so rude and narrow minded.

....but anyway what does it matter what I think about Gladiator, since it's making millions of dollars?B]

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Sorry Tim. But it's just my opinion. Just because I can't apreciate Zimmer's crap this doesn't mean I'm narrow minded. In fact, I went to see "Gladiator" thinking "Well, maybe Zimmer did something good this time. Who knows?". But he didn't. Well... he just can't, can he?

"Armageddon" did millions of bucks too.
Ups... another bad argument, friend...

Anyway, I sympathize with you.

Come on, Mr. Andre-Can't-Stand-Zimmer-Lux, did you even try? I'm sure you went in there with your "this will suck" attitude long before the movie even started. Why don't you open your mind a little bit and really listen to the music, instead of thinking "this is Zimmer, therefore I will not like it" all the time. I'm not trying to make you to like his music, but I seriously think if Zimmer ever composed a score you'd like, you would never admit it.

Ridley Scott is a great director, Gladiator not his best, but come on, what do you expect from a flick with the title "Gladiator"? It's a great ride while it lasts! And the music? Well it's Zimmer. Meaning, very very good.

(If you want a misfit of a score and movie, so dull, so stupid and obvious, check out the pure schmaltz that is Mission To Mars. Whatever happened to THAT team? (And I love those guys!) Disappointed!)

In fact I don't like Zimmer's "music" at all, but I admit his score for "The Thin Red Line" worked well in the picture. Ok, nothing original (Zimmer trying to redo "The Shooting of Wilson" from William's "Born on the Fourth of July") but at least didn't ruin the movie, like all his other scores, including "Gladiator". See? I admited!! Do you feel better now? I hope so...

What I expected from a movie called "Gladiator"? Hummm... well, what I expect from a movie everytime I enter the theatre: that it shall be good, no matter what kind of movie it is. Specially if Ridley Scott is on helm, a guy who's responsible for two of my favorite movies of all times: "Alien" and "Blade Runner".

Anyway, it's just my (not so) humble opinion. I'm sure good old HanZ and his clones won't (unfortunately) melt or give up of composing dreadful scores for motion pictures.

Thanks for your attention!
André "I-Hate-To-Have-My-Movie-Going-Experience-Ruined-By-Ridiculous-Scores" Lux

P.S.: I showed this thread to my wife (who saw the movie with me yesterday). She's definitly not a movie music buff (altough she likes Pat Doyle's scores and DON'T like Goldmith that much) and after I read all these angry replies she said: "You mean that there's people who actually worshipe that horrible music we listened yeasterday??"...
Say no more!!!

N.P.: MISSION TO MARS (master Morricone) *****/*****

you caved and admitted Zimmer's TRL worked well in the movie?

How much did Hans Zimmer and his minions pay you to say that? Did they make a special trip to Brasil to try to persuade you that their music was just as good as Goldsmith?

I shall cook sausages in memory of your former incorruptibility (is that a word?).

quote:

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Originally posted by TimT:

I'm curious as to why a person who totaly hates Han Zimmer would go into a topic titled something like "ATTN all Hans Zimmer Fans" in the first place? But these are the people who are the first to post a reply!

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I wonder that as well. Then again why would an Zimmer hater buy one of his scores in the first place?

Not to say all who dislike his music actually *buy* the scores. However I know of many who do. So I can't help but wonder why. Perhaps to be able to bitch about something I guess.

Regards,
Sean Robert Abbey

"Just because I can't apreciate Zimmer's crap this doesn't mean I'm narrow minded." -----> You can't, won't, or don't? Or is it that you simply just refuse to?

"Ok, nothing original (Zimmer trying to redo 'The Shooting of Wilson' from William's "Born on the Fourth of July")" --->Who said he was trying to redo it? It might have just turned out that way. Give the guy a break! You have no idea how hard composing is.

"Hans Zimmer's drones always get really mad whenever someone express his opinions concerning his weak tunes." --->Not only are you bashing Zimmer and his music but you are also bashing us for taking pleasure in enjoying it. NEVER bash somebody else for likeing a certain genre or type of music. Everybody's different. We are drones just because we are fans of his music and you aren't? How selfish is that?

Dude, give it up. If you don't like him then don't listen to him. And of course your wife is going to be on your side...she's your WIFE! DUH!

I'm not mad at you for expressing your opinions. I'm just mad that your opinions are always worded in such a way that they bash, insult, and degrate those who might appreciate what your bashing. Think before you speak and your reactions to your opinions might be different.

quote:

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Originally posted by sabbey:
I wonder that as well. Then again why would an Zimmer hater buy one of his scores in the first place?

Regards,
Sean Robert Abbey

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Well....by the comments that these people make, it leaves me to believe that they aren't educated in Zimmer's music at all.
They heard some themes, maybe a few rock driven action cues and assume thats the whole picture....As Andre Lux said earlier, that the main theme (Gladiator) is heroic, others said it sounded like The Rock theme and such, which is obviously not true!, just listen to it as it appears through out the score; the last part of track 3, and track 4, and 13 also in tracks 16 and the song version of it in 17. It's a very sad and emotional theme as you can see. I think Andre heard a heroic theme and assumed that was it, then stopped listening.

And rarley do they mention other stuff that they should be more used to; The orchestral stuff, such as As Good as it Gets, and Nine Months, Fools of Fortune, Millenium Celebration, and while we're talking about Gladiator "Patricide" "The Might of Rome", and "Am I Not Merciful?"

I don't expect them to like Zimmer. There are composers that I don't like at all, like Stuart Copeland.
I just wish all the offensive bashing would stop, theres no need for it.
This messege board (and some others) is for all to share their opinions, but who wants to hear all these insults, and grusomly negative things? Especially when you know the people you're talking to Love the music.

(huff-puff-huff)(reaches for inhaler, and heart medicene)

I'm done.

NP- Antony and Cleopatra (John Scott) 5/5

what do you people care about what a person who you most likely will NEVER meet, writes about Hans Zimmer in an out of the way corner of the Internet ?

He don't like Zimmer. He don't like Elfman.
get over it.

There, I just bashed you in a rude and uncalled for manner. Was that fun for you?

Just so you know. There actualy are human beings on the other side of a message board who replies and reacts to what you are saying. Some of us chat via IM or ICQ and know each other pretty well even though we haven't met. Not only is the idea behind this message board to "have fun," so you call it. It is to meet people with the same interests and be able to comminucate with them. How many of your non-internet friends are influenced by film music as deeply as we are? Be realistic here.

Most human beings have feelings. And feelings get hurt. In and out of the internet.

Ok, its 12:51am on my side. I'm going to bed now.

yeah, actually. Cuz apparently I ****ed you off too, by simply telling you to relax a little.

To everyone who freuqents the board:
Andre and I used to get into these tet-a-tets from time to time at the FSM Message Board (RIP), and TRUST me, it's not worth getting POd cuz you feel Andre Lux insulted you. I'm not saying one way or the other that Andre is right or wrong in what he's written. And sometimes I let it get to me, but you know what? No one really cares. I have better things to worry about than what a man in Brazil writes about Hans Zimmer.

The best reason I said get over it:
you never HAVE to reply to anything he writes. You NEVER HAVE to read anything he writes. and you sure as hell don't HAVE to take it personally. If you think he's insulting you, why not take the high road, and just IGNORE him?

If you wanna get upset and cry over it, be my guest. I know I'm heartless and cruel, but I'm just a very bitter individual who likes to make others feel my misery and loneliness.

I'll defend anyone if I think they're being crapped on. Aaron, you have been around this board long enough, I'm sure, to know what Andre is like sometimes. I just don't why you wanna get into shouting matches with him if you have a decent idea of what he'll write. Andre's a singular personality here.

And now just to utilize one my aforementioned methods, I shall not read this thread anymore. Mostly cuz, I don't have anything new to say about Zimmer & co that someone else already hasn't said, and it's just not worth fussing over anymore.

the wonder of NOT clicking a mouse button.
God bless Al Gore and his internet

If you don't like the bashing sort of mail, the only logical thing to do is to not reply to any bashes, and when those kinds of posts are ignored, they will eventually disappear altogether.

Can't help it, but I am intrigued by this sudden emergence of different (and very outspoken) sides, almost like a war is about to engulf moviemusic.com.

quote:

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Originally posted by sabbey:
Then again why would an Zimmer hater buy one of his scores in the first place?

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Ôôooo... Whait a minute!!
Who said I bought any of HanZ' scores? Listen to all the unberable pre-fabricated incompetent musical crap within the movies was enough for me! To be 100% honest I bought "The man in the Iron Mask" and "Armageddon" for 2 bucks, but got rid of it already. Yeah... I know Hans didn't compose that, but it's from his clones which means it's all the same nasty noise.

And I'm really sorry if I offend you, Zimmerities (or whatever you call yourselves). But I can't change my mind about it. I relly tried... but...

Hei JJH, old pal! Glad to see you at my side... You know what I think about "TTRL"... Lets not start it over again, ok? I respect your feelings about it.
Take care, dude.

André, the brazilian who thinks Hanzimer sucks.

On the other hand if you feel that they are missing the point or you feel the need to uphold the work of a composer you admire then speak out in support of that one in strongly postive terms... that's your opinion and it's just as good as someone with one who's on the other side of the issue.

TimT and I have said this over and over again. We seriously could give a damn who likes what and why and when etc etc. It's just the rude way that those opinions are constantly expressed.

Hal 2000 said it...if people want to be childish about it. Let them be childish.

TimT, your right. 6 months ago none of this was happening. What's happened?!

PeterK, where are you when we need you?!!

So I'm saying this for the last time...WE DON'T CARE if you like it or not. Just be alittle but nicer about it.

Personally, I don't read anything Andre Lux has to say about Hans Zimmer. I already know what he thinks. I skip right past it. Unfortunately, it's difficult to find out where I am supposed to skip to, because the discussion becomes infantile.

HAL 2000 said it right. I think Mr. Lux would be a much more valued member of these message boards if he would stop writing about Hans Zimmer "and clones" and write about something he actually likes. When was the last time I read a positive, movie music related post from Mr. Lux? I can't remember...

Mr. Lux! Come on. This is a request of mine for you to forget about the things you hate and talk about those things you like. Heck, if you don't like ANYTHING, may I suggest you criticize with a little more tact and thoughtful explanation!

quote:

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Originally posted by Andre Lux:

Ôôooo... Whait a minute!!
Who said I bought any of HanZ'scores?

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Andre, that was not directed to you. You have an distaste for Hans Zimmer, so be it. You don't have to keep reminding everyone.

Personally I couldn't care less that you don't like his work. Though I can't see why anyone wouldn't to be honest.

I was just saying that I know of some who feel like you do, but continue to purchase his scores. I just can't help but wonder why? If you do not like most if not all of an composers work, why get an score that you'll most likely than not dislike? I think some people just like to have something to complain about. Either that or like to waste money.

BTW, I guess it could also be said if you or anyone don't like his music, why even listen to it at all?

Regards,
Sean Robert Abbey

quote:

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Originally posted by PeterK:
When was the last time I read a positive, movie music related post from Mr. Lux? I can't remember...
PeterK

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Uou, Peter how unfair you're pal!!
So you missed all the incredible nice discussion I had just a few days ago about Elfman's "Instinct"? And about Morricone's last masterpiece "Mission to Mars"? And my comments about "Legend of the 1900"? Etc, etc, etc... Missed them all?
What a shame! I recomend you to visit this board more often then!

quote:

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Originally posted by sabbey:
Andre, that was not directed to you. You have an distaste for Hans Zimmer, so be it. You don't have to keep reminding everyone.

BTW, I guess it could also be said if you or anyone don't like his music, why even listen to it at all?

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Sean, I'm not trying to remember everyone. I'm just expressing my opinion about a subject which is in vogue. I'm talking about how anoying "Gladiator" was. Both movie and score.

And I would love to never be able to hear Zimmer music again. But sometimes he scores a movie which seems to be good and I honestly expect that maybe this time he'll come up with something which at least won't helpe to ruin it. But he always disappoints me.

Thanks for your civilezed comments, Sean.
Nice to know that there's still people who can diverge without being hysterical.

Take care.

I also agree that there are many others who posted messages about why they don't like the Gladiator score and/or movie. They made a lot of sense, they had substance. You say in your first post "the rest of the score was really ridiculous and annoying" and you leave it at that. That doesn't offer much and comes across as "composer bashing" because there is no intention on your behalf to offer any constructive criticism.

When you say something sucks, and say nothing more, it will always be read as composer bashing. However, if you academically (or honestly) look at/listen to the score and prove that you TRIED to understand where and why it fit into the movie (not according to what you thought the film should be, but what it actually is), this won't be construed as composer bashing.

Those are some of my thoughts. Apologies for the previous comment.

PeterK

And my first comments on Zimmer's weak score for "Gladiator" wasn't just "IT SUCKS!". This is what I wrote first:

- Hans Zimmer parts of the score are simply ridiculous. The guy "composed" a heroic macho-man theme (what else is news) for a movie that's suposed to be about treason, tragedy, violence and revenge... Except for the Lisa Garret's parts (very similar to "The Insider"), the rest of the score is really ridiculous and anoying. Everytime that unbelievable Choom-choom-choom theme appeared I expected to see a muscled guy driving a truck with a beer on his hands saying: "New Budwiser beer - for big honchos only!!". Really embarrassing...

What else I can say? Of course, if you take the "the rest of the score is really ridiculous and anoying" sentence alone it won't make much sense. But I said more than just that.

People may not agree, but... hei! It's just my damn opinion. Live with that, folks!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Andre Lux:

Sean, I'm not trying to remember everyone. I'm just expressing my opinion about a subject which is in vogue. I'm talking about how anoying "Gladiator" was. Both movie and score.

And I would love to never be able to hear Zimmer music again. But sometimes he scores a movie which seems to be good and I honestly expect that maybe this time he'll come up with something which at least won't helpe to ruin it. But he always disappoints me.

Thanks for your civilezed comments, Sean.
Nice to know that there's still people who can diverge without being hysterical.

Take care.

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No problem!

Personally, I just like hearing peoples thoughts as to why they like or dislike particular scores. That's why I am here after all. That and to discuss the music. I love most composers work, though it is nice to read varying opinions of the scores.

I will say that this thread has become an bit fanatical in some ways. However I can see why
some have problems with your posts. Though you are entitled to your opinions as is everyone else. Let's just agree to disagree.

Is there any composer you have an real liking for? Personally, Jerry Goldsmith and John
Williams are my favorites as of now. Though I like practically all of the composers I have
heard.

quote:

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Originally posted by sabbey:
Personally, I just like hearing peoples thoughts as to why they like or dislike particular scores. That's why I am here after all. That and to discuss the music.

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That's why I'm here too, Sean.
And as far as I know, this is a DISCUSSION board, not an AGREEMENT one...

My favorite composers now are: Jerry Goldsmith and Ennio Morricone. But I have about 500 film score cds in my collection, so you may figure I like others too, particulary John Williams, Howard Shore, Basil Poledouris, Alex North, Bruce Broughton, Wojciech Kilar, Bernard Herrman, Zibgnew Preisner, Miklos Rosza, James Horner, Michael Kamen and many others...

How about you?

André

There should be two boards on this site: one for the Schrodingers:
http://earthsky.com/1998/es980813.html

...and the other for the Pavlovians:

http://www2.una.edu/history/pavlov.htm

quote:

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Originally posted by Andre Lux:

How about you?

André

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Well too many to list. However an "somewhat short list" would be the following, in no particular order.

Jerry Goldsmith
John Williams
James Horner
John Barry
Danny Elfman
Alan Silvestri
Hans Zimmer
Max Steiner
David Arnold
Basil Poledouris
Bernard Herrman
Patrick Doyle

And pretty much every other composer I have scores of.

Sorry to offend--------->Aaron

And Sabey, I forgot to add Pat Doyle on my list!! What a shame...

David Newman
Thomas Newman
Alfred Newman
Rachel Portman
Graeme Revell
Shirley Walker
Bruce Broughton
Michael Land
Alex North
Miklós Rózsa
Erich Wolfgang Korngold
Franz Waxman
Robert Folk
James Newton Howard
Trevor Jones
Trevor Rabin
John Ottman
Mark Mancina
Marco Beltrami
Elmer Bernstein
Don Davis
John Debney

Like I said before, I like most if not all. This is probably only about 25% of my favorite composers right here.

NP: Starship Troopers (MP3 Suite) - Basil Poledouris ****1/2