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Topic: Film scores as background music on TV
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Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner
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When I turned on the TV 30 minutes ago, I just cought the middle of a broadcast where they gave tips for current cultural events. But the clue: in the background, Ave Satani was playing (rather bad performance, though). Ten minutes later, I accidentally switched to that channel again, and this time I heard something from Red October.I liked that, but I was wondering if it is legal to simply play short excerpts from film scores in the background, I somehow doubt that they have a special license for this.
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posted 05-07-2000 05:58 PM PT (US) ip
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John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner
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The Learning Channel on cable does this all the time. I heard Basic Instinct on there a couple of times on the New Detectives. I heard Backdraft on another one day. This is pretty common. Lots of documentaries do this. Also, sporting events use Rudy, Backdraft and First Knight all the time. Best, John.
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posted 05-07-2000 06:22 PM PT (US) ip
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Chase&August
unregistered
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I think the 1995 Winter Olympics used the EXECUTIVE DECISION theme, and I saw another sporting event about a year or two ago that used THE ROCK.August [This message has been edited by Chase&August (edited 07 May 2000).]
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posted 05-07-2000 06:33 PM PT (US) ip
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H Rocco
Oscar® Winner
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Different TV shows have, to my understanding, worked out some kind of licensing deal with the unions. That's how the old HARD COPY was able to absolutely saturate its broadcasts with film stuff, some of it quite inventively applied: a boisterous, menacing snippet from Zimmer's PACIFIC HEIGHTS was used as both the themes for Michael Jackson and O.J. Simpson during their respective scandals, and Christopher Young's JENNIFER EIGHT main title was another of their very favorites. Very little Goldsmith or Williams, I think they didn't want to use anything too instantly recognizable. (Although at the eve of the Gulf War, I remember 20/20 using the theme from TOTAL RECALL.)The tabloid TV shows have now largely died off, since mainstream TV news has adopted all their tics and habits. The few that remain cannot afford the licensing deal, and so make do with library synth stuff.
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posted 05-07-2000 07:52 PM PT (US) ip
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Al

Oscar® Winner
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I noticed an opening montage to a NBA game which used the rousing "Titus's Vow" from Goldenthal's TITUS (go figure). I was surprised to hear it. It worked well. NP - Cmiral's "Battlefield Earth"
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posted 05-07-2000 07:56 PM PT (US) ip
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logied

Oscar® Winner
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On friday nite I noticed that NOW and AGAIN was using the music from CHINATOWN. The credits ran so quick I could tell if credit was given to Goldsmith or not.
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posted 05-07-2000 08:03 PM PT (US) ip
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Chase&August
unregistered
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About EARLY EDITION: a couple years ago, I was watching an episode. They had a segment on ivory hunters in Africa, and they used a lot of Goldsmith's score from CONGO.Chase
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posted 05-07-2000 08:49 PM PT (US) ip
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Chris Kinsinger

Oscar® Winner
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Film music is used all the time on TV and radio. It's supposed to be purchased legally, but often is not. For instance, who's ever gonna notice that I produced a radio commercial in Dauphin County, PA for use in the Snyder County, PA radio market, that featured Max Steiner's theme from Gone With The Wind? Nobody, that's who. I know I shouldn't have used it, but it was the perfect choice...That was five years ago. (The Statute Of Limitations is long since over, just in case any of you get ideas...)
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posted 05-07-2000 09:05 PM PT (US) ip
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Jeron

Oscar® Winner
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Golf! Golf! Golf!The Byron Nelson, The Masters, The U.S. Open, etc... They always use some sort of film music... Robin Hood, Twister... and others, just can't think of 'em right now. It will be great when they finally figure out that William Ross' score from Tin Cup fits perfectly. Jeron PS - My dad is a regular Golf Channel junky... this is how I know. [This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 07 May 2000).]
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posted 05-07-2000 09:15 PM PT (US) ip
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H Rocco
Oscar® Winner
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I remember something in one of the old Goldsmith Society zines, a letter from a guy who produced videos for -- I think this was it -- a college basketball team (he told us which, I just never heard of them.) He'd worked out something with the unions by which he was permitted to use Goldsmith's music to score them -- HOOSIERS, of course, and "The Plan" from EXTREME PREJUDICE. I wonder if it was easier for him to broker this arrangement because those two were both recorded in non-union Hungary.NP: PRELUDE TO A KISS (sweet, soulful music by Howard Shore, and a couple of quite well-picked songs. An eccentric but adorable movie, I thought.) P.S. Marian, I forgot to ask: "very bad performance of 'Ave Satani'" -- how many are there? There's the OST, the Stanley Black version (which is VERY good, I thought), and -- what else? The Silva version? I don't know that one. I'm not THAT big a completist. If Goldsmith HIMSELF had conducted the Silva album, THEN I'd want it, but as it is, all that stuff is already available elsewhere ... ... it also occurred to me that the rules for re-using music may well be quite different in Europe (in Asia they'll track the weirdest stuff onto their movies and TV shows, absolutely wholesale -- thrill to the sounds of PAPILLON against a Thai historical drama! RAMBO II against a Taiwanese historical drama! I kid you not! The Japanese, at least, ATTEMPT to license everything.) [This message has been edited by H Rocco (edited 07 May 2000).]
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posted 05-07-2000 09:58 PM PT (US) ip
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Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner
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Hey, I didn't say "very bad" - I said "rather bad"! I don't know which version it was, because I only have the original score CD version (I don't like compilations too much if I already know enough stuff of the composer), which it was not. It was only a short snippet, though, so maybe it was only the first impression and is in fact not bad at all. It sounded a bit flat.I don't think that re-use rules are much different here. The father of a girl who went to school with me is the head of a commercial department, and we once had a school excursion there. They showed us how much they had to alter an original song, using their own text, so they don't get copyright problems. I've also heard Red October once during a scientific series, seems to be quite popular. Another time I noticed Williams' Imperial March. And his "Prelude" from Hook during a skiing event. And as I wrote at FSM some time ago, I was really shocked when they showed an excerpt from a Serbian propaganda video on the news - and that video hat the Imperial March playing in the background! 
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posted 05-08-2000 05:24 AM PT (US) ip
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SBD
Oscar® Winner
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One day, while watching an ice skating program, I heard Goldsmith's THE MUMMY. I think it was a suite, but after remembering the music and watching the movie, I can recall hearing "The Caravan", and that's what turned me on to the score.
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posted 05-08-2000 05:59 AM PT (US) ip
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JJH

Oscar® Winner
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all 50 of ESPN's 50 Greatest Athlete documentaries heavily used film music. I'm sure I heard Small Soldiers (Off to Gorgon), Dances With Wolves, Hook, and lots of others.Dances With Wolves is still a popular choice; the NFL used it forever in their United Way spots.
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posted 05-08-2000 06:18 AM PT (US) ip
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John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner
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Here's one for you fans:about 12 years ago I saw a kung fu/martial arts film tracked with music from Coma, Psycho II and Nevada Smith. What a mix. It was ridiculous. It did not fit any scene. Best, John.
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posted 05-08-2000 09:49 PM PT (US) ip
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John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner
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Also saw part of the classic King Kong vs. Godzilla on TV a few weeks ago. I noticed that part of it was tracked with Salter and Skinner music from the late '30s and early '40s that they did for all those horror films. Take care, John.
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posted 05-08-2000 09:51 PM PT (US) ip
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H Rocco
Oscar® Winner
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Mr. Winfrey! You forgot the stuff from CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON! (Even I never knew for sure which of those three composers who worked on those latter-day 1950s Universal pictures wrote that BA-da-BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! motif for the Creature, but Mancini included it on his own "Mancini In Surround." For once, I don't know for sure who did what.)If anyone -- apparently Mr. Winfrey could -- might give me a rundown of what music was used in KING KONG VS. GODZILLA, I'd be so appreciative, you'd never stop hearing me saying thanks. Really, I'd be telephoning you at all hours of the night, just to communicate that. (Dammit, that means you'll never tell me now. Oh well, it was worth the risk.) I'm not expecting a scene-for-scene breakdown -- just, what other movies other than CREATURE get quoted? I'll tell you all the secrets about Peter ZIN-ner ... 
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posted 05-08-2000 10:04 PM PT (US) ip
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joan hue

Oscar® Winner
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I can't help you, H'ness, with the request, but at least a few things make sense now. I watched King Kong vs. Godzilla last week and kept wondering why the music was so variable. So many variable motifs or themes, and I kept wondering if it was scored by a single person. Nothing on the credits. Places sounded so familiar. The Americans must have toyed with the original Japanese movie, I would speculate. But it was a fun viewing.
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posted 05-08-2000 10:48 PM PT (US) ip
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H Rocco
Oscar® Winner
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MOM! We're here at the same time. Tell me what you THOUGHT of that version. And then I'll tell you why, as fun as I did think it was, it has NOTHING on the real version.
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posted 05-08-2000 10:53 PM PT (US) ip
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joan hue

Oscar® Winner
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Oh,oh, I'm confused. I didn't see the real version with some added American music? This Godzilla had a lot more humor in it than my previous encounters. Several Japanese characters, especially when on Kong's island, were quite the buffoons. Not use to broad, slapstick humor in Godzilla movies. The "expert" American scientist sounded like an idiot with his inane theories. I have to say that I enjoyed the media and political satires, and found myself hooked into a few of the Japanese characters. I wish it had been subtitled so I could hear their voices. I thought they played with the whole Fay Wray image when Kong picked up the "sister." And in my heart I know Godzilla is a misunderstood monster, so pitting him against another misunderstood monster left me wondering who to cheer for. ?? So did I see a chopped up, bastardized version that left things out?NP About to go to bed.
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posted 05-08-2000 11:11 PM PT (US) ip
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John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner
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Sorry, H Rocco, I didn't watch very much of it the other night. Just too dumb. But yes, I did hear that in there too. What I heard was just fragments of this and that thrown together in the big fight near Mt. Fuji. Sorry, I couldn't help you more. If I see it on AMC again I will listen and pinpoint all the music and where its at. Best, John.
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posted 05-09-2000 07:59 PM PT (US) ip
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Graham Watt

Oscar® Winner
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Here in Spain they're really into shows where people send in home videos of heroic/tragic rescue attempts (people falling from burning buildings; children getting rescued or drowning in floods etc). James Newton Howard's "The Fugitive" is a big favourite in those scenes.And the big football matches are always preluded by Total Recall (Desafio Total in Spanish: "Total Challenge", isn't that great?)
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posted 05-10-2000 02:48 PM PT (US) ip
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joan hue

Oscar® Winner
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H'ness, ahh, when are John and I going to hear about the "real" version?
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posted 05-10-2000 09:05 PM PT (US) ip
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Marcelo Ferreyra

Oscar® Winner
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Perhaps You remember guys (and girls) that in The Fugitive, the original series with Rugolo score, "The Day The Earth Stood Still" was used many times as tracked music. Also did some scores from others TV series such Twilight Zone. The score of the chapter "The Invaders" (On TZ)composed by Jerry Goldsmith was used so many times in The Fugitive that seems that is tracked in the original TZ episode!
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posted 05-10-2000 09:20 PM PT (US) ip
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H Rocco
Oscar® Winner
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Ah, the "real" KING KONG VS. GODZILLA ... I hardly know where to start.The American version has its merits, although principally nostalgic ones, in my case. Most of Ifukube's music was chopped, except for the native-dance music. (Curiously, editor Peter Zinner, who also picked and tracked the music, also left in a snippet of the native-dance music when he helped -- the same year! -- with the mutilation of another picture from the same team, BARAN, aka VARAN THE UNBEARABLE, excuse me, UNBELIEVABLE.) (Zinner later edited THE GODFATHER and THE DEER HUNTER, for which he won an Oscar, and directed THE SALAMANDER.) All the ridiculous "newscaster" scenes, shot in English, were obviously added later. The particular pace of Honda's cut is wrecked, all the more shameful because it was already beautifully edited by Reiko Kaneko (a woman, feminist Mom! and maybe the best editor Honda ever worked with; she also later worked for Kurosawa. But you might not like this detail: the reason women were "allowed" to be film editors was because editing was considered really the director's job. So editors were billed even under sound recordists, for God's sake. Honda's movies are all edited very consistently no matter who the nominal cutter is, but I've noticed that when he was on a rushed schedule -- particularly UNDERSEA BATTLESHIP and EARTH'S GREATEST BATTLE -- he seems to have designated more authority to his editors, with the result that some of the work is dreadful. I'm especially thinking of Ryohei Fujii. I'm sure you all know of him, and subscribe to his various fan clubs. Four at last count. Oh yes, the first movie in Japan ever directed by a woman, back in the 1930s -- she started as an editor, too, but the movie was never released and is certainly lost. The first Japanese woman director was Setsuko Hara, and she managed that feat in the 1950s because she was one of the country's biggest stars, and had the backing of a powerful director boyfriend. There still aren't many female directors, but there have always been many female writers of films, or their source novels or comic books. Now that I think of it, I wonder if THE RADIO HOUR's Koki Mitani is female ... the name isn't very sex-specific. I can tell you that Honda's last Godzilla, released here as TERROR OF MECHAGODZILLA, was written by a woman, Yukiko Takayama -- misbilled as "Yuhiko" in the ABOMINABLE Paramount Video release -- and that Mr. Honda much admired her original script -- a lot got changed from page to screen -- and had thought it would be interesting to see more Godzillas written by women. She was a fan, and it showed.) Where was I? Oh: One could argue that the original version of KK V.G (as we call it in the biz) is a bit schizoid, since it alternates between comical stuff involving Kong, and genuinely frightening stuff with Godzilla (the next-to-last time he would be scary in the 1960s films.) But director Honda was sufficiently adroit that it all manages to mix and mingle with great aplomb. The picture is also, as MOTHRA was, a very clear and intentional satire on Japanese commercialism (though that was a common theme in Japanese movies at the time.) I think the tone of it has to do with the mammoth success the previous year of MOTHRA. KING KONG VS. GODZILLA was an even bigger hit -- financially the most successful of the entire series, including the original. MOTHRA had also deftly blended comical, dramatic and tragedic aspects, and had scored such a huge boxoffice success as a consequence, KING KONG VS. GODZILLA was designed in a similar way. Additionally, the three male leads were among the most popular comedy stars in the country at the time, though all were also frequently cast in dramatic roles. (Same for MOTHRA star Frankie Sakai. Same for most Japanese actors, actually. Nearly all have been jacks-of-all-trades.) But the two guys who go to the island to catch Kong: they were already a well-known team in the Hope-Crosby tradition (and the original version has a few extra scenes with them, also their real dialogue -- that nonsense about "the corns" was invented by the Americans. Also a few puns that would never translate. Also Kenji Sahara doing even more histrionics when he screams at Kong to "put her down" (Japanese dialogue is literally "Give her BACK!") Also a wonderful end-of-a-scene earlier, when he's rescued the same girl (Mie Hama was what, 19 at the time?) from Godzilla, that got cut from the Universal version.) Oh Lord, I should just forward my original essay. I'd have to type it in, though. Hmm, trivia: director Ishiro Honda took a terrible tumble while shooting some of the mountain locations, and wound up in the hospital. His wife was looked after in the hospital by third assistant director Koji Hashimoto, who later was tapped for GODZILLA 1985. He was such a family friend by then that the Hondas had been the go-betweens for his marriage (mutual friends assuring them all that the marriage will be a good one), and as soon as he got the assignment, Hashimoto went straight to Honda's house to get his blessing. Aah, I've told this story before. But I didn't mention that for one shot, they blew up part of an ACTUAL mountain, and had to negotiate with a nearby US Army base for permission to do that. They got it. (I may be misremembering this as Army ... I'd bet it was the same Marine base which helped pitch in on building stuff for Kurosawa's THRONE OF BLOOD, but I was never told that specifically. The locations were probably the same, though, there aren't THAT many US bases in Japan, nor THAT many accessible exterior locations that didn't, even then, have skyscrapers or power lines on them.) KING KONG VS. GODZILLA, by the way, was only the SECOND monster-vs.-monster movie in the genre -- it wasn't yet the standard format. That's one reason why the battles are rather on the simple side, compared to the more elaborate ones that followed immediately. The battles themselves were choreographed largely by the guys in the suits, Haruo Nakajima (Godzilla) and Shoichi Hirose (Kong), both veterans (survivors!) of the SEVEN SAMURAI shoot, among many others. You'd be surprised what tiny guys they are in person (well, I never met Hirose, but it's obvious from pictures.) Hey, just so I can torpedo one of the most persistent rumors about this one: there were NEVER "alternate" endings of this picture. It ALWAYS appears that Godzilla's vanished and Kong's swimming away. I'll add that this doesn't, to me, comprise a definitive victory on either creature's part ... And one last thing, Joan: Godzilla's not misunderstood here, he's still evil incarnate, which may be clearer in the Japanese version, but seems obvious to me in both. As a little kid, I was more scared of his stalking Fumiko in the mountains than I was even by most of his antics in the original. Okay, one last last thing: the native woman who rescues her child from the enormous octopus, and later leads the dance in honor of Kong: she was played by Akemi Negishi, who was discovered on the cabaret stage by Josef von Sternberg, who cast her immediately in what turned out to be his final film as a director, ANATAHAN. Scored by Akira Ifukube, and I've already told many times his nightmare stories about working with THAT guy ...
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posted 05-11-2000 03:13 PM PT (US) ip
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joan hue

Oscar® Winner
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Thank you ,H’ness. You are a walking/typing encyclopedia of rich, interesting details. (I know, you probably are wearing a blue sock, a black sock, or no socks, and even you don’t know.) Men are blessed with the ability to engage in selective memory... because women..ah, I’ll spare you my theory, you lucky guy.Loved the stories on women and their positions in Japanese films. I really don’t see women abounding in the top echelon in American movies yet. They’re clearing a few pathways. Now I understand why so little of Ifukube’s music was present. Also, I enjoy the commingling of drama, horror, and comedy. Many of my favorite movies balance horror and humor. Even Shakespeare utilized this technique. I do realize that in this movie, Godzilla was “evil incarnate.” However, I have watched too many Godzilla movies out of sequence and know that his role changes. Evil vs. misunderstood victim vs. benefactor when faced with an even worse monster, etc. I never know quite what to think of him, but I should tune in more to the director’s and writer’s vision. Again, thanks for the update. NP The Keep
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posted 05-11-2000 04:06 PM PT (US) ip
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