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Author	Topic: Gladiator: Great Movie, Horrible Score

DjC Oscar® Winner	Yes, Gladiator is the topic... Great movie, horrible score. The score has its moments, but during action scenes, the score ruins it. It gives the battles that "Cheese" feeling, rather than brutal combat. ALlm in all the film would have been MUCH better with a differnt score.
posted 05-06-2000 05:14 PM PT (US)

Dr.Evil Oscar® Winner	I read a short review (or post, can't remember now) saying that the score is something between The Rock ( a good one, at least) and Peacemaker ( a terrible one). Nothing new?
posted 05-06-2000 05:51 PM PT (US)

DjC Oscar® Winner	Actually, the score is OKAY, but with the movie, it sucks, the onyl good parts are the parts with just voice, adn guitar, the actual scoring, especially during action scenes are stupid. They sound silly with the brutal action of Gladiator. A good movie, but the score is nothing new, a wannabee Mummy, which sucked, adn nothing close to the rock. The score was the worst part of the movie, it was distracting.
posted 05-06-2000 06:27 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Oscar® Winner	This score did not fit the film at all.
posted 05-06-2000 09:39 PM PT (US)

Captain Howdy Oscar® Winner	The only part I thought the score worked GREAT in conjunction with the film was during the part in which track 14, "Am I Not Merciful" plays. Those who have seen the film will know what scene I'm referring to. I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen the movie. As for the rest of the score, I thought it worked OK, but it didn't really enhance the film, like Zimmer's scores usually do.
posted 05-07-2000 12:34 AM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	I thought Zimmer's score worked well during the first of the film. The music for the scene with the preparation of battle sounded like every other Zimmer action theme done before, but, with its strong brass and male choir, it was effective. The beautiful string theme at the end of the first battle fit well. After that, it seemed that Ridley Scott had Zimmer compose a score without seeing the film and then took pieces of it and placed them throughout. I thought the "voice" pieces achieved a little emotion but they could have been more powerful. I didn't think the score took anything out of the movie, but I do think that more could have been added.
posted 05-07-2000 08:22 PM PT (US)

MattStar Oscar® Winner	ok, I've been reading all these Gladiator posts and what surprises me is that no one has mentioned the fact that this movie is basically a remake of "The Fall of the Roman Empire" (which has an incredible oscar nominated score by Dimitri Tiomkin). Same characters (the general's name in Fall was Marcus while in Gladiator it's Maximus, but all the other main characters are the same), same basic plot. I'm shocked they were allowed to put "original" on the screenplay. Also, there was way too much Prince of Egypt in the score. The only part of the score that really worked for me was the fanfares for some of the processionals and views of Rome. The cgi was terrible. The action/fighting scenes were incomprehensible to watch because of the shaky cam. All in all, I was extremely dissappointed in this film and the score. A complete dud.
posted 05-07-2000 11:05 PM PT (US)

Ruddiger unregistered	I think everybody knew that.
posted 05-08-2000 08:53 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	Everyone might have known it, but no one mentioned it. If the suggestion makes a point, someone's gonna have to say it sooner or later. MattStar, welcome to the message board! PeterK NP - "Up at the Villa" by Donaggio
posted 05-08-2000 09:09 PM PT (US)

JJH Oscar® Winner	I'm not an expert on The Fall of the Roman Empire film or anything, but wasn't that supposed to a truthdul story, whereas this one was a complete fiction, with historical characters? I mean, we all know about Marcus Aurelius and Commodus, etc...just wondering what the differences were in the two movies, other than main characters. NP -- The Hudsucker Proxy, Burwell
posted 05-08-2000 10:06 PM PT (US)

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	I haven't seen this movie but I was somewhat interested in the soundtrack and, in fact, was planning on buying it today but you guys have given me second thoughts. I will go listen to it instead before I buy.
posted 05-09-2000 06:40 AM PT (US)

MWRuger Oscar® Winner	I like the movie as I thought it gave one of the better portrayals of the ancient world, in spirit at least, that I have seen. The score was just there for me. It didn't hurt or harm the picture. I actually liked this FILM better than Fall of the Roman Empire, which in my view, didn't capture much of the spirit or reality of the Empire. (Score was excellant however)
posted 05-09-2000 07:21 AM PT (US)

Pete M Oscar® Winner	I saw a preview of the film last night, & I really didn't think that the score worked well at all. Some of it, during dialogue scenes & the Mars steals were OK, similarly the scene before the final duel. But mostly it seemed really out of place, & frankly spoiled my enjoyement of the film. The heroic-y bits, with the typical Zimmer synth-led anthem theme was vapid & silly. What it really could have done with is a score with some balls, like Conan or 13th Warrior. Guess this one's not on my must-buy list... np Air Force One
posted 05-11-2000 09:13 AM PT (US)

Lancelot Oscar® Winner	...wonder what movies you guys went to see? This was a fantastic film. How can you say the music ruins the movie? Who would have scored this better? Goldsmith? Williams? Naah...
posted 05-11-2000 04:23 PM PT (US)

Chris Kinsinger Oscar® Winner	The Fall Of The Roman Empire and Gladiator are both about the same story and characters, but display completely different views of them. I've always been a great fan of the spectacles about ancient Rome, and I never thought that Hollywood would ever produce another one. I liked Gladiator very much. It has an excellent script, marvelous performances and a surprisingly good cast (I never in my life expected to see David Hemmings in this!). Ridley Scott manages to keep Oliver Reed (his last film) and Derek Jacobi reined in, and they both give wonderfully understated performances (these are two wonderful actors, who are apt to really chew scenery if guided by a weak director). I went into the theatre expecting to dislike this picture, especially after what I've read here at the message board, and I have to tell you that I not only loved it, but I'm going back to see it again very soon! The musical score is uneven, but it does have its effective moments. Overall, I would've preferred Williams or Goldsmith, who know how to really develop themes and utilize them to elevate the drama in a more powerful manner than Zimmer's music does, but it's far from the worst score I've heard. Gladiator deserved better music, though. [This message has been edited by Chris Kinsinger (edited 11 May 2000).]
posted 05-11-2000 05:46 PM PT (US)

DjC Oscar® Winner	The score was cheasy, dull, adn distracting from the film. Mainly in the action sequences. I loved the film, especially the fight sequences in the colleseum, but the score during action scenes was cheasy, adn a pain. I would rather have GOldenthal score it, he has a taste for Old power...Zimmerman sucked, Ridely ruled.
posted 05-11-2000 11:56 PM PT (US)

MattStar Oscar® Winner	thanks for the welcome, PeterK. I've actually been around for quite a while but I'm one of those guys that reads a lot of threads but only posts every once in while. I realize I was pretty hard on the film and the score in my previous post, but I just hate these bad remakes of movies from the 50's and 60's. That said, I am actually going to see Gladiator again this weekend (my father wants to see it) and I am going to pay closer attention to the score to see if my original assessment was too harsh. Wish me luck.
posted 05-12-2000 01:58 AM PT (US)

Obi Jok Kenobi Oscar® Winner	Well, sorry to say this, but I loved the film AND the score. The scored DID enhance the movie, especially, as pointed out, in the "Am I Not Merciful" scene. Joaquim Phoenix played that scene perfectly! Praise goes to Russell Crowe for such a good performance, and goes to show how good an actor he is. If you want to see something different with him, see THE SUM OF US. In regards to the shaky cam, I liked it. It gave the action sequences an edge over most films. The much quieter music is probably the major highlight of the film, but of course, the use of MARS: THE BRINGER OF WAR was the perfect idea for the film. I've always been a big fan of solo and choir voices in music. Anyway, I'm definately going to go see the film again!
posted 05-13-2000 12:55 AM PT (US)

robin4 Oscar® Winner	I can't believe you people saw the same movie I just got back from! I loved this movie, and the music made it even better! I especially liked it during the first battle and the end song was stirring. I think someone already said it, but during the battle it is supposed to be like that to show what the war was like-confusion. It was just like in that masterpiece, Saving Private Ryan. N.P. Gladiator (The Battle) <**.5/***>
posted 05-13-2000 02:14 PM PT (US)

Rang Oscar® Winner	* W A R N I N G * POSSIBLE SPOILER AHEAD IN MY FIRST PARAGRAPH!!! DON'T READ IT IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN GLADIATOR and WOULD RATHER NOT HAVE AN IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THE FILM POSSIBLY REVEALED!!! THE REST IS OK!!! ___________________________________________ Swashbuckler, was it you who mentioned that parts of Zimmer, et al. score was reminiscent of Peter Gabriel's work on THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST? Whoever it was, I have to agree with that assesment, especially during Crowe's premonitions of being reunited with his family. Surpringly, I enjoyed GLADIATOR. The acting was fine, the story kept me involved (for the most part), and the score neither added or detracted from the film's impact (though the references to Holst and Gabriel - in the latter case, possibly unintended - did call unduly attention to themselves). On the shaky camera work during the battle and fight scenes, I'd agree with MattStar when he says that they "were incomprehensible to watch." It's understandable if the intent of this shaky-cam work was to underline the chaotic nature of war, but from my perspective as being apart of an audience, when you can't understand what is taking place because of the technical wizardry, that meaning gets lost, if that was indeed the meaning. SAVING PRIVATE RYAN was quite different because you didn't get lost inside of this technique; you were able to follow what was transpiring on screen. In GLADIATOR, it's all effect with no foundation. Back to the music, specifically, the noble sounding music. Much like the inappropriate use of Williams' theme for John Adams in AMISTAD, almost constantly appearing whenever Adams did, it seemed that whenever there was some noble, life-altering dramatic decision to be made, or just routine conversation, the noble music would chime in. Because of this, many of these scenes come off as being muddled and excessively repetitious, practically interchangeable with one another. However, maybe this was a problem inherent in the script, and Zimmer et al. were just attempting to cover it up. [This message has been edited by Rang (edited 14 May 2000).]
posted 05-13-2000 04:38 PM PT (US)

Bel366 Oscar® Winner	I finally got a chance to see GLADIATOR last night and I thought it was terrific. I have to give credit whenever a film actually makes an attempt to have some scope and power to it and this did. No, Zimmer's score was not in the same class as BEN-HUR or SPARTACUS, but I thought that it fit the film well (except for the Spanish guitar which seemed to pop up at the oddest places).
posted 05-14-2000 04:47 AM PT (US)

JJH Oscar® Winner	Rang: you say Zimmer's references to Holst were unintended? I can't possibly think they unintended. I'm not the hugest Zimmer fan, but I do recognize that he knows something about music, and that he must have known he was conjuring up Mars. had to have. Bel: Spanish guitar? Maximus was a Spaniard!
posted 05-14-2000 07:46 AM PT (US)

Rang Oscar® Winner	JJH, I should have said "latter" because I was referring to Gabriel, not Holst. My mistake. And I agree, I think the Holst reference was intended. Gabriel... possibly...
posted 05-14-2000 08:36 AM PT (US)

Bel366 Oscar® Winner	JJH: I am aware of the character's nationality, I was just saying that I thought the guitar was used in some rather curious places in the film.
posted 05-14-2000 08:37 AM PT (US)

JJH Oscar® Winner	I see.
posted 05-14-2000 08:47 AM PT (US)

Lancelot Oscar® Winner	Actually, it struck me as more of a mandolin, but Spanish guitar would be appropriate...Maximus was Spanish....
posted 05-14-2000 09:19 AM PT (US)

Dan Brecher Oscar® Winner	OK movie, GREAT score if you ask me. I was dissapointed, though I think myself foolish to put so much faith in Ridley Scott. To quote Mr Ebert: quote: "Gladiator" is being hailed by those with short memories as the equal of "Spartacus" and "Ben-Hur. Too true, too true (re: "short memories"). If Gladiator had a heart I would love the film, but it's nothing to me but brutal storytelling coupled with bad editing choices in many a scene. I was often reminded of many of Scott's TV commercials. For me I would have wanted it to be longer in order to retain its energy (which I agree it has) and to, more importantly, establish any decent thought and feeling into its characters. To me it is "spectacle," not "epic". People can always be won over the by scale of a movie (Titanic?) only to later down the line realise it wasn't THAT great at all (Titanic). Nothing more then eye and ear candy yet again for a summer release... I'd welcome the viewing of a directors cut with open arms. Dan (UK) NP: Gladiator (***/***) [This message has been edited by Dan Brecher (edited 14 May 2000).]
posted 05-14-2000 11:19 AM PT (US)

Norman McCay Oscar® Winner	I would agree with Dan on this one....the movie was okay, not as great as everyone had praised it to be. I mean I really wanted this film to succeed and work, but I guess I just put too much expectation on it. That, however, is not my fault, for I really had no intention of seeing the movie in the first place until I learned that Hans Zimmer was doing the score. Once I got the score, I couldn't possibly think of any film that actually lives up to the hype of the music. In other words, I thought the music outdid the film, and it's unfortunate for I have been dying to see a Roman Epic (NOT like Spartacus or Ben-Hur like everyone else, but back to the Jason & the Argonauts days with Ray Harryhausen) with mythological storylines. But I should have known better, seeing how Gladiator was based on real-life characters in the first place. You just can't capture that 1960s magic (that made Harryhausen famous. His puppets were spectacular, and still are by today's standards. The "skeleton battle" is just phenomenal.) with modern special effects. I mean, since when did Gods have so much make up (referring to the TV movie Jason & The Argonauts, and all other failed TV efforts in capturing the Roman/Greek era of the past) and monsters move and look like robots?
posted 05-16-2000 08:51 AM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	Get this guys, not only did I read a review about the movie mentioning the "effective" score (a rarity in movie reviews) but two people who usually do not purchase or listen to movie scores mentioned the music to me. One will buy it the other is frustrated because he promised himself not to buy any cds all year (he is a mp3 fanatatic) but he wants the score badly. Now I come here and most of you don't like it. I have yet to see the film and was going to buy the cd today. Now i don't know. Strange, why do think a lot of non-movie score fans really seem to like this score and most of the moviemusic clan don't? Scott
posted 05-16-2000 12:05 PM PT (US)

Ed Coleman Oscar® Winner	Scotty, I have not seen the movie yet, I will this weekend. I bought it when it was first released and I think its FANTASTIC (imho). King Scott, your trusty minion says buy this score you will not regret it. Your servant, Ed NP - Gladiator ***/*** [This message has been edited by Ed Coleman (edited 16 May 2000).]
posted 05-16-2000 12:11 PM PT (US)

sabbey Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Scott: Get this guys, not only did I read a review about the movie mentioning the "effective" score (a rarity in movie reviews) but two people who usually do not purchase or listen to movie scores mentioned the music to me. One will buy it the other is frustrated because he promised himself not to buy any cds all year (he is a mp3 fanatatic) but he wants the score badly. Now I come here and most of you don't like it. I have yet to see the film and was going to buy the cd today. Now i don't know. Strange, why do think a lot of non-movie score fans really seem to like this score and most of the moviemusic clan don't? Scott Hey Scott, My opinion on this and practically every Zimmer score is. If you like Hans Zimmer's work, get it. If you don't, don't. It's quite simple if you ask me, though maybe an little too simple. Either way, I think it is an great score, well on CD that is. Since I have yet to see the film, I have no idea how it is within that context. Regards, Sean Robert Abbey [This message has been edited by sabbey (edited 17 May 2000).]
posted 05-17-2000 09:56 AM PT (US)

sabbey Oscar® Winner	BTW, am I the only one who actually likes the score? It sure seems that way. Either way, I do think an more big orchestral sound, such as what Goldsmith or Poledouris would have done would have been better. However I still think it is an great score as it is. Regards, Sean Robert Abbey [This message has been edited by sabbey (edited 17 May 2000).]
posted 05-17-2000 10:01 AM PT (US)

mlw Oscar® Winner	I know people who don't give a damn about music who thought Gladiator's music sucked for manufacturing what you're supposed to feel. "It's always right there, won't let you make up your own mind." I know a musician who said he didn't notice any music in Gladiator. I know a lot of reviews are making a point of proclaiming it a masterpiece of cinema art, the John Williams music of our time. Intrada's review seems to be addressing something in particular, almost defensively (but then Intrada gives everything good reviews, and they're well-done). I'm sure it's as impossibly great as it's supposed to be, just like the movie. Enjoy it. Any comments on Elia Cmiral's Cornfield Earth? ps-- Mars was a Roman deity and had a field or something named for it-- but where's Jupiter and all the other Planets in Gladiator? (I know, they're in Braveheart and Apollo 13, but don't tell anybody). [This message has been edited by mlw (edited 17 May 2000).]
posted 05-17-2000 11:37 AM PT (US)

robin4 Oscar® Winner	I love the score! I thought it was especially effective during the first battle, when the emperor was killed, "Am I Merciful?", and the finale song. They will not get out of my head! I love this movie and score!
posted 05-17-2000 02:13 PM PT (US)

Marcelo Ferreyra Oscar® Winner	Oh boy! So many oppinions about it! Gladiator was premiered today in Argentina. I'm dying to add my experiences about this one. I'll see it soon and I'll be back! P.S. To be continued...
posted 05-17-2000 09:09 PM PT (US)

DjC Oscar® Winner	Score was okay overall, but during the first battle scene..man did it suck. Cheasy, distracting, damn zimmerman, i only give him props for the Rock which is great, everything else sucks from him.
posted 05-17-2000 10:32 PM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	Wow, Zimmer- yes, Zimmer-no. What is one to do. Still haven't seen the movie or purchased the score. Very odd. Hmmmmm... Zimmer, Zimmer, Zimmer...hey, did you know that translated Zimmer means Room. Yep, a room full of different opinions he is... Scott
posted 05-18-2000 07:51 AM PT (US)

Norman McCay Oscar® Winner	For those interested, Billboard noted that the score for Gladiator was one of the top movers & shakers for this week, indicating that it is reaching a wider audience than most film score releases do, moving up 14,000 copies from the previous week. Check out the link: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000518/re/music_sales_3.html This would concur with Scott's comments about usual non-film music listeners suddenly craving for Zimmer and Gerrard. Which of those composers they crave, however, remains the question. Back to the score, I have officially listed the score as my second favorite score of all time. Right behind another of Zimmer's, Toys. Maybe with time, Gladiator just might surpass Toys and reach the top of my list. It is just the perfect score, with action, dramatic, and heroic cues, everything that I could possibly want from a score. Only bad thing about the CD was again, it wasn't complete (notably lacking the second-to-the-last duel with Maximus and the Gladiator, as well as much of last moments of the film prior to Maximus' duel with Commodus). But who am I to complain. I am just thankful they released a Zimmer score. These days, Zimmer's scores just aren't released anymore.... Where's M:I-2?????
posted 05-18-2000 07:52 AM PT (US)

Dan Brecher Oscar® Winner	Sean, You're not alone! I adore the score the more I listen to it, and am happy to class track 3 ('The Battle' cue) as one of my all time fave cues ever... Dan (UK)
posted 05-18-2000 08:48 AM PT (US)

DjC Oscar® Winner	If yuo dig that cheasy sinth feel then go ahead and enjoy the score. Me? I hate it, especially the Battle, Track 3, that was the worst part of the score, to spunky adn cheasy for a brutal spectacle such as Gladiator. Ridley needs to invest in a different composer.
posted 05-18-2000 09:46 AM PT (US)

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