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A John Williams 'What If.....'
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Topic: A John Williams 'What If.....'

starblade

Oscar® Winner

I'm not trying to alarm anybody, but I've been thinking for a while about this:What if John Williams wasn't able (and I won't elucidate) to do the music for the other two upcoming Star Wars films for some reason or another?
I'd like to hear your thoughts on:
1) Who YOU would like to score them;
and 2) who do you think Lucas would pick.
#2 first: I think Lucas would go with Joel McNeely for two reasons, he did the music for Radioland Murders and the music for Shadows of the Empire.#1- I think David Arnold (a la Stargate; and NO techno) would fill Williams' shoes nicely. Lucas would give him enough time (not 2 or 3 months like his last few movies) to do a bang-up job. The first time I listened to the Stargate cd, I thought, "gosh, this is the closest anyone's done to Williams' Star Wars 'sound' that I've heard"
I'm not implying anything's gonna happen, but strange things do.
NP-Stargateposted 04-29-2000 12:28 PM PT (US) 
Shaun Rutherford

Oscar® Winner

What Lucas will probably do is re-use music from the other films in case of Williams' (gulp) death. I would hope that he'd go back in time to 1985 and grab Bruce Broughton. I'm sure Lucas has the capabilities.Shaun
posted 04-29-2000 12:43 PM PT (US) 
Wedge

Oscar® Winner

LUCAS: In light of my recent ability to digitally recreate actors, I am proud to announce a new computer technique that digitally recreates composers as well. Every note John ever composed has been downloaded into this database and deconstructed into a series of algorithms. The computer then analyzes the data input by the director as to the dramatic content of conventional scene samples, and reverse-engineers the scoring technique. This process is overlayed onto the new picture, providing us with an original score. Of course, we're not removing the human element completely. Someone needs to manually define the dramatic/emotional functions of each specific scene. That's what we're all about here at LucasFilm. Putting the people back into technology.
posted 04-29-2000 01:07 PM PT (US) 
JJH

Oscar® Winner

Wedge, you're not too far from the truth.
There are computer programs that are designed to "compose" in the style of a particular composer.
I do know they've been tested on composers such as Elgar (a Third Symphony was produced from the composer's sketches), Beethoven, and Chopin, though I have heard the output is very VERY close to other pieces, almost quoting them, if not just a plain rehashing.My former roomate is convinced that John Williams is already composing the scores to the other 2 films, in case something unexpected happens....
posted 04-29-2000 01:28 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Shaun, Bruce Broughton would be an excellent choice... but wouldn't Joel McNeely also deserve serious consideration? I mean, look at his work on Shadows of the Empire... incredible stuff.Starblade, I agree with you whole heartedly! David Arnold would be AWESOME.
Jeron
PS - Ahaun, Did you get my e-mail?
[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 29 April 2000).]
posted 04-29-2000 01:35 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

(Haven't we played *this* game before....?)No...Joel McNeely wouldn't be right. I think either James Horner or, on a long shot, Michael Giacchino.
But as it is, let's not burn that bridge until we come to it--which, i'm sure, won't be necessary....
posted 04-29-2000 01:45 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Hmmm ... Wedge has an interesting point. I didn't know about that technology, and Lucas is sufficiently a technophile to be interested in such a thing. However, I'm sure he'd go with Joel McNeely. I SINCERELY doubt he would think seriously about James Horner (who would be a ridiculous choice), or other more established names. McNeely did SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE, YOUNG INDIANA JONES and THE RADIOLAND MURDERS -- end of story, I think.
posted 04-29-2000 03:47 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

Not end of story.James Horner also has some fantasy experience with Lucasfilm--"Willow". "Willow" is not far from the Star Wars mythos, therefore I SINCERELY doubt that he'll be that easy to rule out.
posted 04-29-2000 05:25 PM PT (US) 
Wedge

Oscar® Winner

Gee, Roc, were my technobabble-skills sufficient to convince you? You bring honor to my Trekkie-status.Seriously, the whole Lucas "quote" was a load of bunk. I wasn't expecting anyone to believe it. It's actually kind of scary how believeable that kind of idea really is, huh?
posted 04-29-2000 05:34 PM PT (US) 
Vladimir
Oscar® Winner

Hey good question??? I think sometimes ppl take it for granit that Williams is still writing music including me.But if this ever happens that he can't score Star wars god forbid ?? I think my choices would be eather... Joel McCneely or David Arnold but I think I would give it to Joel
posted 04-29-2000 06:41 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Scary, Wedge? Try terrifying ... especially since JJH seemed to be backing you up ...
posted 04-29-2000 07:07 PM PT (US) 
Wedge

Oscar® Winner

Fun and games aside, I'd love to hear more McNeely-style "Star Wars." I was blown away with "Shadows of the Empire." What he came up from the BOOK was absolutely fantastic ... gets better with every listen. And it's especially admirable how he did it without relying on Williams' previously established themes (which he might use more if he were scoring an actual film.)Horner? Let him score "Jurassic Park 3," but STAR WARS?!? Don't make me laugh! After McNeely, I'd go with Broughton. And, of course, I wouldn't be complaining if Goldsmith were assigned to the project.

posted 04-29-2000 07:38 PM PT (US) 
Wedge

Oscar® Winner

Of course, part of me wishes "Shadows of the Empire" never existed. Part of me wishes beyond all hope that they had gone with the ORIGINAL plan ... which was to have Williams himself compose music for Timothy Zahn's epic Thrawn Trilogy. I have DREAMS about that happening ...
posted 04-29-2000 07:41 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

I think James Horner is being severely underrated, here. Have we become such "score snobs" that we can no longer appreciate the emotional and epic scope of his work?Granted, I would almost rather the final Star Wars films never be made, than made without Williams, but I think we have a legitmate and worthy sucessor in James Horner. (I emphasize "sucessor", and not "replacement".)
When taken into his experience with subject matter, and his quality for handling matters action, romance, terror on an epic scale, I think the choice should be obvious.
posted 04-29-2000 08:51 PM PT (US) 
James

Oscar® Winner

I guess it's about time I got Shadows. Since the only McNeely score I have heard is Avengers, I cannot comment on his aptness. Since he seems to be everybody's first choice I'll assume he'd be the right man for the job.Others who could be great:
Bruce Broughton
David Arnold
Laurence Rosenthal
Lee Holdridge
Richard Band (that would be a LONGshot
)James
NP - The Day Time Ended (Richard Band)posted 04-29-2000 09:21 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Rosenthal DID occur to me ... since Williams has referred him to several other jobs he didn't want himself (METEOR, CLASH OF THE TITANS, YOUNG INDY). I looked him up at the IMDb just now and see that at age 73, he's still VERY busy in TV movies. Good for him. Since I virtually never see TV movies anymore, I was under the impression he might have retired.Richard Band ... dream on, chum! Your other suggestions ... let's say I don't trust Arnold, though I'd be happy to be surprised (I'd damn well BETTER be surprised if he got the job.)
Lucas has so little experience working with composers other than Williams that he'd almost be BOUND to pick McNeely, since he's tapped the fellow before. But perhaps this is an eventuality we need not worry about. (I HOPE not.)
Hell, maybe he'd go back to Lalo Schifrin, who did his THX-1138 all those decades before ...

NP: THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (box set version, not the more recent remixed reissue) (all this STAR WARS talk got me thinking how long it's been since I've actually LISTENED to them)
posted 04-29-2000 09:32 PM PT (US) 
JJH

Oscar® Winner

maybe Lucas will follow a Spielberg recommendation again and go with Hans Zimmer...posted 04-29-2000 09:40 PM PT (US) 
starblade

Oscar® Winner

Bruce Broughton would be good, too. I forgot about him.Realizing that 'IF' this ever happens, whomever gets tapped for it would most likely get a long time to develop and write the scoring. Not just a few weeks like most composers get nowadays. I think Lucas understands the importance of the music to Star Wars and would provide oodles of time for its creation, and not just a temp-tracked afterthought.
I'm not so sure that Horner (and I like Horner) would be the right person for the job. Most of his scores are awesome (some not), but they just don't have the 'flavor' or 'thickness' (for lack of better terms) tha the Star Wars music has. Likewise, I'm not so sure that Goldsmith (BIG Goldsmith fan here) would be the right person, either.
As I said before, to my ear, David Arnold with Stargate has come the closest to the 'Star Wars sound'. With use of the already established themes, he could probably extrapolate new music very well.
posted 04-29-2000 10:18 PM PT (US) 
Mark Olivarez

Oscar® Winner

I would think McNeely or Broughton would be the choice. Maybe Arnold. Goldsmith's style, as much as I love his music, just wouldn't seem to fit for me. As for Horner, NO! I find myself even further removed from buying his stuff. I can just hear pan flutes and clanging in major battle scenes, oh boy. The sad thing is that even though Williams and Goldsmith probably have another good 10 years left in them, maybe longer, the day is coming when these two gentlemen will retire or be taken from us. Sigh, now I've depressed myself.[This message has been edited by Mark Olivarez (edited 29 April 2000).]
posted 04-29-2000 10:23 PM PT (US) 
sabbey

Oscar® Winner

Joel McNeely would be an good choice. However my top choice would have to be,Michael Giacchino
Regards,
Sean Robert Abbeyposted 04-30-2000 01:22 AM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

I don't think Horner is right for it -- and even as a major Goldsmith partisan, I don't think HE'S right for it either -- nor, frankly, am I sure he would accept the job -- for that matter, who knows if Horner would? It's an impossible task for anyone but Williams. I vote for McNeely, who at least has tackled the STAR WARS mythos before, or Broughton, who for a while there in the late eighties seemed to be kind of a stand-in for Williams (Goldsmith and, gradually, Horner were carving out different territories.)Holdridge isn't a bad idea, but I doubt they'd consider him. Christopher Young might be interesting, but I doubt he'd be considered either.
Oh, why didn't I think of this before -- it's so obvious -- GIORGIO MORODER!

posted 04-30-2000 01:24 AM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Wedge:
Part of me wishes beyond all hope that they had gone with the ORIGINAL plan ... which was to have Williams himself compose music for Timothy Zahn's epic Thrawn Trilogy. I have DREAMS about that happening ...They intended to do that? Damn, why DIDN't they do it??? The Thrawn trilogy blew me away, and I've always been hoping that they'll make movies from it and have them scored by Williams.
As for my choices, I don't know. I guess McNeely could do a really good job. Arnold... don't know. He may be too overblown for Star Wars. Goldsmith? My 2nd-favourite composer, but I still wouldn't have him do Star Wars.
I think it could be interesting (interesting. I'm not really suggesting he should do it) to give the assignment to Patrick Doyle. I wonder what he would come up with. He has that operatic vein that Williams also used for SW, but a different style, of course.
And I bet that Goldenthal could guarantee a really creepy SW experience.

posted 04-30-2000 06:32 AM PT (US) 
Wedge

Oscar® Winner

They didn't do the Thrawn Trilogy idea, Marian, because (A) They decided to tie in the project with the Shadows of the Empire multimedia blitzkrieg, and (B) Williams schedule didn't match their timeline, so he recommended McNeely.At this point it's doubtful it will ever come up again. But we'll always have "almost."

posted 04-30-2000 07:02 AM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

Just IMAGINE Thrawn's Theme. That alone give's me the creeps!NP: Symphony #9 (Gustav Mahler; Chicago Symphony Orchestra/Solti)
posted 04-30-2000 10:11 AM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

It's gotta be MECO! ... Right!!
posted 04-30-2000 05:59 PM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

...In all seriousness, Whoever scored it would use Williams primary 'Themes',The general Public would hardly notice the join!Only hard core types like 'Ourselves' would notice it wasn't 'The Real Thing'!!
NP : nought!....g'night!!
posted 04-30-2000 06:51 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Not sure, Timchanter. When you look at the number of Most Successful Movies of All Time, and note the number of Williams scores that accompany them, I wonder if the public isn't, indeed, responding to the SOUND that Williams brings along with him. Not that his music CREATES a hit -- there are so many variables behind the evolution of a blockbuster -- but so MANY people have heard the music he's written, whether or not they know or care about his name or his albums, it seems to me that his SOUND has become encoded in the subconscious: Williams Sound = Monster Blockbuster. I see few other reasons that, for example, HOME ALONE took off the way it did -- I honestly believe that if the other two composers up for it, Bruce Broughton (whose name appears on some of the advance posters) and Jonathan Sheffer (who was up next after Broughton was dropped), had scored the picture, it would be remembered just as another John Hughes-produced trifle.Does that mean that Williams' sound can't be duplicated? Not at ALL, it can EASILY be duplicated, just as Barry's, Goldsmith's, Horner's or Morricone's can, if anyone's listening close enough. What would be critical for anyone else inheriting the franchise would be to imitate, as precisely as possible, the EXACT SOUND that Williams brought to STAR WARS. It IS doable; the problem is finding a composer with sufficient skill, and lack of ego, who could do so.
Williams can't create a hit; the trick is to get them into the theaters and find out they're SEEING a hit. Williams was tapped to replace Stanley Clarke's score for ROSEWOOD, because its superstitious producer Jon Peters (who originally demanded Williams over Elfman for BATMAN) felt that only Williams could make it a hit. Not so; ROSEWOOD was never going to be a hit. But the uniquely appealing sound of his music inside the proper package has helped create some of the biggest commercial successes of all time. I already mentioned HOME ALONE -- but two larger examples already exist, two movies no one believed would ever work, JAWS and STAR WARS.
posted 04-30-2000 08:30 PM PT (US) 
Pete M

Oscar® Winner

Horner or Goldsmith would both be wrong really, & Arnold could manage it, provided he didn't get too overblown. I think that McNeely or Broughton would be good choices, but how about David Newman? I think he'd be really great. If he was even considered, that is.
np Crow Salvationposted 05-01-2000 02:37 AM PT (US) 
Will

Oscar® Winner

Perhaps Williams would compose the score first before the shooting of the films begin! Nah just kidding. I did ponder on this matter once. I guess everyone is replaceable in the Star Wars saga, except the music by Williams. The directing part has been proven replaceable, the actors, the technology, anything but the music.I just couldn't imagine Star Wars without Williams.
NP Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade ***** (Williams, coincidentally!)
posted 05-01-2000 04:02 AM PT (US) 
sabbey

Oscar® Winner

I would suggest not even thinking of John Williams *not* doing the next two films. Since I have learned that if you start to think of something such as this, that is usually when it happens.
BTW, I have the feeling if 'you know what were to occur' Lucas would just edit the music from the other films. What do you all think of that idea?
Regards,
Sean Robert Abbeyposted 05-01-2000 05:00 AM PT (US) 
Andre Lux
unregistered
I think he should go for MECO!Yes, Meco Monardo, the king of cheezy music. Anyway, it would be better than Jim Horner, the king of the "Fóróró-rommmmm"...

posted 05-01-2000 06:55 AM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by sabbey:
I would suggest not even thinking of John Williams *not* doing the next two films. Since I have learned that if you start to think of something such as this, that is usually when it happens.
Don't worry. Remember? We already discussed this topic over at the "other board"...BEFORE Episode 1 came out.
Rocco: I've also been wondering quite often whether it's coincidence that so many major blockbusters feature Williams as the composer...
NP: Toy Story (Randy Newman)
posted 05-01-2000 10:45 AM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

Indeed, let's not dwell on it.Although I can't help tossing out one more name: Basil Poledouris.
posted 05-01-2000 02:02 PM PT (US) 
Thor

Oscar® Winner

Yes, Joel McNeely should and would do it.
posted 05-02-2000 08:51 AM PT (US) 
James

Oscar® Winner

A friend here(you can all probably guess who) was kind enough to allow me to hear the stunning 10-minute finale from Shadows, and I now understand what you were all talking about. Joel McNeely is definitely perfect for the job, although I still do not negate the names I mentioned.Poledouris?... Yeah, he'd be pretty good, too.
James
posted 05-02-2000 01:23 PM PT (US) 
Hector J. Guzman

Oscar® Winner

Just for funOriginal Motion Picture Soundtrack
STAR WARS: EPISODE II - THE #@%&*! %$*;¿@!!
Music Composed and Conducted by Alan Menken
or
Music Composed and Conducted by Nick Glennie-Smith
or for some people:
Music Composed and Conducted by Leonard Rosenman
then there´s this one:
Music Composed and Conducted by Dennis McCarthy
even scarier:
Music by Brad Fiedel
Music by Eric Serra
and finally I couldn´t resist, I love the way this one sounds:
Original Motion Picture Soundtrack
STAR WARS: EPISODE II - THE #@%&*! %$*;¿@!!
Music by Elton John
Lyrics by David Zippel
Original Score by Randy NewmanNP. The Asteroid Field(Williams/Boston Pops)
[This message has been edited by Hector J. Guzman (edited 08 May 2000).]
posted 05-08-2000 11:29 AM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Hector J. Guzman:
Original Motion Picture Soundtrack
STAR WARS: EPISODE II - THE #@%&*! %$*;¿@!!
Music Composed and Conducted by Leonard RosenmanHey, that would be interesting!
NP: The Fly 2 (Christopher Young)
posted 05-08-2000 04:09 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
