Joan: Ok, admit it: You've read it, haven't you?

Marian: Agreed. By the same token, I judge ALL movies by the same criteria--no genre gets a free pass from me because it's ONLY science fiction, adventure, etc. I reject the idea that it's unrealistic to expect good dialogue or any attempt at characterization in a genre film/book. Because to me, that's a slap in the face to every genre writer (like Tolkien) who DOES include those elements. Ursula LeGuin's The Left Hand of Darkness, for instance, stands up to ANY mainstream book ever written. Of course, there's different levels of characterization & depth of plot. I'm not saying everything has to be Citizen Kane. But any good writer should manage SOME level of the basic story elements.

Oh, and I've learned (or leaned ;-) some things from Joan--and you, too, so I think we're all teachers/students!

Off topic, yes debi, we are all great teachers/students for each other. In fact,
I totally understand why you wouldn’t want to reread LOTR right now
because a fresh comparison might ruin the movie. Now, maybe I should
consider that possibility.

I agree that superb writing crosses genres.
(In literature and movies.) I’m not much of a western
reader either, but I did love Lonesome Dove, Shane, and The Shootist.
Unforgiven is a book? Duh, didn't know that. I better check it out. The Left Hand of Darkness is an
excellent science fiction novel as is Mary Russell’s The Sparrow, and both
should be considered for QUALITY movies.

NP The Omen

quote:

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Originally posted by debi:
Oh, and I've learned (or leaned ;-) some things from Joan--and you, too, so I think we're all teachers/students!

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Yeah, that's what this board is all about, after all.

quote:

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JClark: I'm avoiding re-reading LOTR because the movie's coming out. Trying not to compare & if the story is too fresh in my mind, I will.

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Hehe, I know it by heart anyway. As I said, when reading the English original version, I often knew the sentences even if I didn't know enough words to understand it without having it read before.

more 20th C. composers you need to check out:

Einojuhani Rautavaara
Arvo Part
Alfred Schnittke 1934-1998
George Crumb (Black Angels is awesome)
John Tavener
James MacMillan
Michael Tippett
Alan Hovhaness (get Symphony No 2!)
John Adams
Alban Berg
Anton Webern
Olivier Messiaen
Toru Takemitsu, also a film composer

to name but a few....

Arnold, David
Beal, John
Beck, Jean-Christophe
Beltrami, Marco
Bennett, Brian Scott
Benoit, David
Bergeaud, David
Bernstein, Peter (older?)
Boardman, Chris
Bramson, Steve
Colcord, Ray
Davis, Don (older?)
Dudley, Anne
Dundas, David
Eidelman, Cliff
Endelman, Stephen
Frizzell, John
Gibbs, Michael
Glennie-Smith, Nick
Gregson-Williams, Harry
Gruska, Jay
Hartley, Richard (or was that Harvey?)
Hirschfelder, David
Kaczsmarek, Jan
Keane, Brian
Kiner, Kevin
Kiszko, Martin
Kitay, David
Levay, Sylvester (older?)
Licht, Daniel
Mancina, Mark (older?)
McNeely, Joel
Mothersbaugh, Mark
Muskett, Jennie
Olvis, Williams (older?)
Ottman, John
Parks, Van Dyke
Pike, Nicholas
Rona, Jeff
Ross, William
Sekacz, Illona
Serra, Eric
Stone, Christopher
Taylor, Stephen James
Troost, Ernest
Tyng, Christopher
Watters, Mark (older?)
Williams, Alan

Once a composer's made a few A-list films, I consider him/her to be established & they move off my "rising star" list. We share some discoveries--Arnold, Pike, I've only heard Beltrami's Mimic, which was intense. Don Davis--definitely older than 35. Dudley & Hirshfelder are pretty established (and 40+)-- Hirschfelder (wonderful composer) has a couple of Oscar noms under his belt. Frizzel, Glennie-Smith, Gregson-Williams. Mancina, Ottman are solid, if not yet in the first tier of composers. Jean-Christophe Beck--either I haven't heard him, or that's Christophe Beck (AKA Chris Beck). If so we share that discovery, too. Don't care for Eric Serra's work, but that's me--I hated the scores for Joan of Arc & Fifth Element. Used to have Mark Snow on my list, but he doesn't seem to be stretching. Maybe he just needs to break free of Chris Carter. Danny Lux (Ally McBeal, Profiler) also shows promise, I think.

Thor,
Have You heard Martin Kiszko's OCELLUS Suite from the BBC documentary ALIEN EMPIRE!,all about the Insect world,Munich Symphony Orchestra conducted by Harry Rabinowitz?!....Well worth getting!
(7243 8 36190 23)

I'd also need to add to my list:

Paul Hindemith, trumpet sonata!
Kent Kennan, trumpet sonata!
John Barnes Chance
Giya Kancheli
Christopher Rouse
Stephen Albert (RIP-- cello concerto is awesome)
David Diamond
Charles Ives
Zemlinsky
Allan Petterrson
Benjamin Frankel
Rubbra
Elliot Carter
Richard Danielpour
John Rutter

Richard Hartley's filmography is at:

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Hartley,+Richard+(I)

And you can catch Richard Harvey at:

Mozart, 35
Mendelssohn, 39
Schubert, 28
Stephen Albert, mentioned above, 51 or so, died in a car wreck
Gustav Mahler, 51,
Nadia Boulanger (first name correct?), 24

Well, I've heard a minimum of ONE score by each of them (I think) OR read about a score they've composed that I've found interesting not-heard.

I agree with your categorization of A-list composers. Yeah, I gathered that Davis was older than 35 (he's done a lot of orchestration previously), but he really only recently became an A-list composer with MATRIX. Sorry about Dudley & Hirschfelder. I guessed the latter might be older, but the woman looks so YOUNG! That's the same Beck we're talking about. Jean-Christophe is his full first name. I'm not too keen on Serra either, but you have to agree he's young and promising, career-wise (almost A-list already). Mark Snow is in his mid 40's already, now isn't he? He's done a lot of TV work over the years (not to be confused with another TV vet, Mark Post, though).

Personally, I'll put my bet on Arnold, Bergeaud (loved his EARTH2), P. Bernstein, Boardman, Eidelman, Frizzell, "the MV hyphenates", Kiner, Licht (he's gotta do something other than horror!), Mancini, McNeely, Ottman and Serra as the guys who'll make it to the A-list in the nearest future. Time will show, though.

Timmer: Yes, Kizsko's ALIEN EMPIRE is in fact the score that made me put his name on this list in the first place! An original and supreme effort.

quote:

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Originally posted by Timmer:

You gave Me Rautavaara (5/5 for that)

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Oh yes. About a week ago I went to a concert with the Scottish Chamber Orch., here in Edinburgh, & one of the pieces was the Scottish Premiere of his Autumn Gardens piece. It was really really good, & I'd love to hear more of his work. Any suggestions?

If You go for it, Tell Me what You think?!

As for Snow: If you listen carefully, you'll notice that all his X-FILES scores are very different, touching on different styles proper to the episodes in question. But his synth soundscape approach is still there throughout. He got to expand a bit more with the X-FILES movie, where he used a regular orchestra that blended with the electronics. So he sure has it in him...

Glad you liked EARTH 2 too. A very underrated show that displayed an intelligent plot and a great atmposhere. Don't understand why it was put off the air.

Today, I caught the last 10 minutes of a recording of the premiere of Rautavaara's latest work, "On the last frontier" on TV. Somehow I always miss the few concerts that are on TV nowadays, but what I got to hear sounded really good. The conductor's (Leif Segerstam) face looked more and more dangerous during the performance, at the climax he looked like he would kill somebody any moment. Afterwards, Rautavaara himself came to the stage.

So: Anybody else heard this work? Is it available on CD, or are there plans to release it? Or what else would you recommend as a start for listening to his works?

he has several works on the Ondine label:

Ondine ODE 881-2
Violin Concerto
Isle of Bliss
Angels and Visitations
Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra, Leif Segerstam

Ondine ODE 869-2
Angel of Light, a WONDERFUL symphony
Annunciations, concerto for Organ, Brass Group and Symphonic Wind Ensembble

and I think there is something called Cantus Arcticus that is really amazing. uses taped bird call. it's on at least a couple labels: Naxos and Catalyst; I have both performances.

so on and so forth. this guy writes some great stuff

NP -- Rautavaara, Angel of Light (or Symphony No. VII)

here is more truth about one of the aformentioned compositions:

Angels and Visitations is it's own story, as the name might (or might not) imply. Most of it is typical Rautavaara, heavy on the luminescent strings; heavy on the brass. In fact, parts of the piece are quite atonal, in an Alfred Schnittke sort of way. Basically, it describes musically, the differing ways angels and demons might associate with a hymn rising out the depths of the orchestra. pretty interesting.
he calls it "a set of variations on the theme of contrast, polarity, the logic of antithesis."

cool, eh?

Some years ago, back in school, we did a little "speech" piece by Rautavaara. No melody, just rhytmical text. That was the first time I heard about this composer.

I don't necessarily need Great Train Robbery, but anything you have would be awesome.

I shall email you in the next 3 or 4 days. I am going out of town for a day or so.

I'll be awaiting your mail