Please, keep it coming. I'm laughing a lot!!

N.P.: The Mission (just to look cool too)

Remember the "Lovemaking" from Horner's "Cocoon"? That buzzing mix of sound effects and music you hear at the end of the cue, when the alien girl throws that yellow spining ball (whatever it's called) towards Steven Guttemberg, is EXACTLY equal to Corigliano's "Altered States"!!

I don't remember which cue it's from since I don't have the Coriglino's CD with me now... But check it out: it's a shame!

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Originally posted by JJH:
"Star Wars of course, has several references to The Planets and Stravinsky's Sacre du Printemps ("The Little People")."

what several? tell me what in Star Wars sounds like The Planets? I've listened to both pieces so many times now, and I don't hear anything in Star Wars that references The Planets. Is it the dissonant chords in the main title?

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The "pounding chords" right after the main title are very similar to the "Mars" movement from "The Planets". As are those at the destruction of the "Death Star". Again, these are REMINISCENT of "The Planets". Horner's passage from "Aliens" is a blatant rip-off of William's piece.

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NP -- Bruckner, Symphony No 2 in c minor

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I adore Bruckner!

Ah yes, Goldenthal's "Batman Forever" incorporates Strauss' opening from "Also sprach Zarathustra" in the first track, and Hermann's "Psycho" theme. The latter is in fact varied and used as a theme throughout Goldenthal's score, but it's still very close to Bernstein's theme. And one passage from "Interview with the Vampire" reminds me very much of Goldsmith's "Poltergeist".

I'm convinced that at least the "Batman" stuff is done deliberately, and not as a simple "rip-off", but as some sort of musical joke. Rip-off's sound different, I think.

Now, I'm not attacking dantoris' original post here, but why is it that this topic keeps surfacing time and again, and people actually never tire of discussing it? I don't get it.

I really believe there is a difference between certain confluences of ideas, certain musical motifs that jump into one or another or yet another head -- here's another weird one, Goldsmith's THE CASSANDRA CROSSING and Joseph Harnell's THE INCREDIBLE HULK (which seems to owe a more conscious debt to Waxmans' BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN) -- there's a difference between these accidental clusters of notes (with all the music that's ever been written, how many combinations of notes are possible? Mathematically, there are limits and I'm sure they've been reached) -- and what someone like Horner does (and, once again, I rather like Horner a lot of the time, though he's become quite erratic in recent years. I criticize him in part because I sense such a vast talent that isn't being channeled properly. Other composers I think less of, I won't even deign to mention.)

This is a vast and difficult topic that I'm still trying to get my mind around, and, manifestly, failing. If I were a more genuine and dedicated musician, I'd probably have stronger and better-formed opinions about it (as I do pretty much everything else).

NOT ONLY DID HORNER RIP OFF THIS PIECE OF MUSIC, HE RIPED IT OFF TO USE IT FOR A SIMILAR SCENE.

NOT ONLY DID HORNER RIP OFF THIS PIECE OF MUSIC, HE RIPED IT OFF TO USE IT FOR A SIMILAR SCENE.

The more I learn about Horner the more I wonder about his ablilities. I understand that there is a certin amount of influence in artistic areas (being an artist myself) but to blatently rip something off and not give credit to the originator is WRONG. It is plgerism. Plane and simple.
Don't you remember being threatend with getting an F on a school paper if you copied anothers work and didn't give credit? Do people forget this lesson when they get out into the real world?
People are more clever then most want to admit. And people that continue to steal others work will be caught and should have to answer for thier actions.

dave

Horner has said often that he had almost no time to write ALIENS, which might be his excuse for why parts of CAPRICORN ONE and STAR WARS are in that one as well. (And why there was no time for Cameron to MAKE him replace, at least, the Khatchaturian stuff.) At least Horner HAD an excuse for borrowing from the original ALIEN (maybe he should have borrowed more! Nah, it's a completely different kind of movie. Although that one cue from the first ALIEN, surely part of the temp soundtrack, does remain in ALIENS. Funny, the way Ridley Scott treated the first ALIEN score, I don't even remember if that particular cue actually APPEARS in the ORIGINAL movie! I probably only recognized it in ALIENS because I was familiar with the original album.)

Funny guy...!!

And I've heard that the bizarre interpolation of Nino Rota -- from AMARCORD, I believe -- that Horner used in HONEY, I SHRUNK THE KIDS nearly provoked a lawsuit from Rota's estate, as well. I was told that the theatrical version of HONEY is way more overt, and that Horner had to rerecord it for video release. I don't have the patience or stomach to compare them (and where would I find the "original theatrical" version anyway? Like I care, I didn't like that picture much. Oh yes, whatever wasn't Rota in that score was Carl Stalling, and he's dead too, but since Warners owns the music and apparently isn't going after Horner, it's a moot issue. Heh, Warners would have to sue half its own composers over "theft.")

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Originally posted by Nicolai P. Zwar:
... and thought it was a rather funny reference to Kubrick's 2001. I mean, it's rather obvious, and even casual film buffs who are not particularly interested in film scores might notice this one.

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Indeed is VERY obvious, Nicolai. It's the same music, afteral. Just the name of the composer who wrote it is wrong.
But I'm sure James Horner reply to the obvious question "Why did you cloned Gayane Ballet on "Aliens", "Project X", "Clear and Present Danger", "Patriot Games", etc...? would be "Geiane what?? Never heard of it! Now, **** off!!!"

It is NOT automatically plagiarism to simply quote another composer, same as it is not automatically plagiarism if an author quotes another author. I'm not deaf to Horner's recyclist attitude, I just think it gets overemphasized many times.

NP: Jerry Goldsmith WILD ROVERS
(Memoir)

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Originally posted by Nicolai P. Zwar:
All I'm saying is that quoting something and ripping off somebody are two different things, and no, a direct "quote" would NOT end up in the source music credits; that happens only if the actual piece would have been used, but if it would BE the actual piece, it would not be a quote, would it?

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