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Topic: Walt, what were you thinking?
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Thor
Oscar® Winner
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Walter Hill. He produced the ALIEN films, my favourite franchise. But he is also the creator of some substandard films operating in the classic, not-too-surprising Hollywood mode. A fine craftsman, but sometimes I seriously question his musical taste:How on earth, if my info is correct, did he manage to throw out Bernstein mesmerizing (I love that word) score and replace it with his usual composer Ry Cooder and his bluesy anomality? It's no surprise by now that I'm not too keen on Cooder, but in this particular movie, it's more evident than ever. Totally out of place, drawing attention to itself and lacking the capability to boost dramatic scenes, Cooder's score does nothing for me - neither in the film nor on an album. Bernstein's rejected score, however, which I just bought, is a showpiece in dramatic brilliance, contrasting the dark romanticism of the plot with gritty, percussive passages emphasizing the film's violent atmosphere. Can someone please remind me why Bernstein's score was thrown out? I cannot see any justifications for this.
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posted 03-20-2000 10:28 AM PT (US) ip
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Jeron
Oscar® Winner
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From what I've read, Hill thinks Ry Cooder's music is as enhancing, if not moreso than that of Elmer Bernstein. So perhaps he's just gone wacko... or, as you suggested, perhaps he has no musical taste. Of course, who am I to question musical taste? Don't wanna get into it... although I do wonder how Ry Cooder would have scored one of the Alien flicks if Walter Hill had recommended him. That would have been... yikes... I don't even wanna think about it. =) LOL.[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 20 March 2000).]
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posted 03-20-2000 11:01 AM PT (US) ip
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Luscious Lazlo
Oscar® Winner
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http://www.west.net/~elmo/Horner/interviews/TrekIII_i.html STEVEN SIMAK WROTE: Another recent assignment was in composing a score to Walter Hill's *Streets of Fire*. Horner's music, however, was subsequently rejected in favor of a rock score by Ry Cooder and serves as an example of Horner's problems with free rein. "The score that I wrote for *Streets of Fire* was a very percussive, propulsive score. It used a lot of varied, different, exotic instrumentation. They decided to take that feeling out. They wanted something a little more traditional and they went with 50s rock and roll." Horner attributes the difficulty with the score as the result of his willingness to experiment. "I tried something very risky in *Streets of Fire*. I thought it worked terrifically and so did everybody, actually. But about a week of living with it, thinking about it, the director started to feel perhaps I had gone too far. Now there's a difference between perhaps going too far and reverting back to 50s rock and roll!"
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posted 03-20-2000 03:49 PM PT (US) ip
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mlw
Oscar® Winner
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I liked Horner's 48hrs as far it went, but he woulda been out of place on Streets of Fire. I liked Bernstein's Last Man Standing but it was hollow at the core, as if all the things Bernstein excells at (emotive sympathy with his characters, discriminating dramatic commentary, deep-felt humanity) were denied him. One of those in-between works-- he later gave in and did the ambient textural style. Last Man Standing not that different from Goldsmith's issues with Extreme Prejudice really. Cooder did a serviceable support score but it wasn't a special film. Cooder and Hill can be great-- Geronimo, Long Riders, Streets of Fire, Johnny Handsome.
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posted 03-20-2000 04:20 PM PT (US) ip
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Luscious Lazlo
Oscar® Winner
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Memo to ML Ware: "Ambient textural style". That's a catchy phrase. Maybe your recent exposure to Morricone's *Mission to Mars* led you to use that phrase. Cooder did an achingly beautiful arrangement of "Seneca Square Dance" for *The Long Riders*. And Cooder is as fond of exotic instruments as Horner was for *Streets of Fire*.
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posted 03-20-2000 05:38 PM PT (US) ip
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Andre Lux
unregistered
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I will never be a fan of his style, but there's nothing wrong with Ry Cooder's "Last Man Standing". In fact it's his finest movie music effort to date and fits the movie very well.
I listend to Bernstein version and found it too shalow. It's easy to understand why it was droped from the film.
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posted 03-21-2000 07:55 AM PT (US) ip
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Swashbuckler
Oscar® Winner
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Hmmm... Horner's score was rejected because it was too experimental... that explains A LOT.I have found several of Hill's films to be interesting, but few to be all that brilliant. However, I have to say that I think that his relationship with Cooder is probably one in which, whatever Hill wants for the scene, Cooder knows. They've collaborated on quite a few films, and they have probably forged a relationship that is comfortable for both of them. In the case of "Last Man Standing," it was my understanding that Hill wanted Cooder from the beginning, and it was the producers who got Bernstein for the score. They liked it so much that they pushed for an album release of it.
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posted 03-21-2000 08:09 AM PT (US) ip
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