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Record Companies--This is what we want you to re-record
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Topic: Record Companies--This is what we want you to re-record

Lou Goldberg

Oscar® Winner

I'm sure this is an old topic being stirred up once again and it may lead to nothing.Just the same, I thought I'd voice off......
Companies like Varese and Marco Polo are re-recording a lot of scores, but for financial reasons they're usually picking scores by title with the idea that the better known the film is, the more sales they'll have of the record.I believe this is a disservice to film music collectors because a lot of good and important scores are being neglected this way.
In posts on the FSM board and here at Moviemusic, I keep running into complaints about scores that aren't re-released or re-recorded while other scores people could care less about are being done.
So, l thought we'd put together a list of scores we really want companies to record and at the end e-mail the page around so they have some idea what film music lovers are really hoping for.
We love this music, we collect it, how about we have a say in what shows up.
Personally, my want list looks like this:
Destination Tokyo
a collection of Brian Easdale scores
the same for Leith Stevens scores
more Malcolm Arnold scores
They Might Be Giants
a collection of cues/scores from Goldsmith 50s & 60s TV shows like Thriller, Climax & The Man from UncleOK--that's it from me. What about you?.....
posted 01-30-2000 05:32 AM PT (US) 
Jack

Oscar® Winner

I'll second the nomination of They Might Be Giants, and expand your UNCLE nomination to include all the composers for Man and Girl. A rare show that featured an all star team of composers.I don't understand some decisions. Chris Beck is doing great work for Buffy The Vampire Slayer and all we have is one score track commercially available.
posted 01-30-2000 06:51 AM PT (US) 
JEC
Oscar® Winner

Let's start with some scores that were released on LP but not on CD:TRAPEZE
THE KEY
THE LION
NINE HOURS TO RAMA
HEROES OF TELEMARK
ROOTS OF HEAVEN
INN OF THE SIXTH HAPPINESS
TUNES OF GLORY
THE WRONG BOXAll of the above, with the exception of WRONG BOX (Barry) are Malcolm Arnold. Nearly the whole Arnold catalog remains unreleased on CD. I know ROOTS OF HEAVEN is being rerecorded, but I'd still like to have the original with the original artwork.
Rerecordings or original track releases I would like to have are:
AFRICA, TEXAS STYLE (Arnold)
HELLFIGHTERS (Rosenman)
CRACK IN THE WORLD (Douglas)
MASTER OF THE WORLD (Baxter)
TORA TORA TORA (Goldsmith)For MASTER OF THE WORLD, I'd like to have the complete stereo tracks, not a reissue of the VEE JAY recording.
More scores on LP but not on CD or were on CD but have been out-of-print for some time:
DOG OF FLANDERS (Sawtell/Shefter)
FORBIDDEN ISLAND (aka ATLANTIS IN HI-FI)
HONEY POT (Addison)
633 SQUADRON (Goodwin)
WHERE EAGLES DARE (Goodwin)etc...etc...etc...
As for rerecordings, I wish Marco Polo had done the ZULU rerecording instead of Silva. I know that a 16 minute Barry score would be of no interest to them, but at least they would have done it right. Raine's reconstruction was too unfaithful to the original sound. If they still exist, then you can add ZULU to my list of scores for which I would like to have the original tracks.
posted 01-30-2000 07:02 AM PT (US) 
PeterD

Oscar® Winner

Never recorded, even on LP as far as I know:Bernstein, "The Bridge at Remagen"
Tiomkin, "The War Wagon"
Conti's "Victory"
Waxman, "Cimarron"
Previn, "Bad Day at Black Rock"[This message has been edited by PeterD (edited 31 January 2000).]
posted 01-30-2000 08:00 AM PT (US) 
robin4

Oscar® Winner

How about some more John Wayne scores like Stagecoach or The Searchers or The Longest Day? Anything like that, we need more old-time scores.
posted 01-30-2000 09:23 AM PT (US) 
John C Winfrey

Oscar® Winner

Here are my choices:Suites of most of Goldsmith's Thriller TV scores.
Ride the High Country-George Bassman
Some of Goldsmith's TV movie scores in '70s
Cable Car Murder
Going Up of David Lev
and others
Tiomkin-Westerner, with Newman
His Majesty O'Keefe
Tarzan and the Mermaids
Newman-themes and suites from his 1930's scores
Our Daily Bread
Dead End
Clive of India
Mr. Robinson Crusoe
Dark Angel
40s scores
Manhunt
Foreign Correspondent
Moontide
and others in both decades
Fred Steiner-First to Fight
Addison-Centennial
North-The Word, Penitent
Goldsmith-Shock Treatment
and many others. Thanks, John.posted 01-30-2000 10:39 AM PT (US) 
Alwin

Oscar® Winner

Please, oh please re-record/re-release:1) Black Beauty
2) COMPLETE Armageddon score with HGW's work included.NP: Batman
posted 01-30-2000 11:08 AM PT (US) 
Audacity

Oscar® Winner

I would love a CD release of Jarre's score for Enemy Mine, I have the LP and to my knowledge it was never available on CD. Also his score to Grand Prix, was that ever released on CD?Audacity
NP Unforgettable (Chris Young)***posted 01-31-2000 09:36 AM PT (US) 
Marc Flake

Oscar® Winner

ONE MORE TIME:Mystery Alaska
Also, here's what we have for our Post-Apocalyptic 2-CD set.
The Omega Man (Suite)
Crack in the World (Main Theme)
Crash and Burn (Main Theme)
Planet of the Apes (Suite)
Logan's Run (Suite)
Damnation Alley (Main Theme)
Escape from NY (Suite)
Escape from LA (Suite)
Terminator (Suite)
Terminator 2 (Suite)
Waterworld (Suite)
Postman (Suite)
Mad Max Suite (incorporating music from all three movies)
The Quiet Earth (Suite)
"Waltzing Matilda" from "On the Beach"Marc
NP: Midnight Expressposted 01-31-2000 10:49 AM PT (US) 
Brad Wills

Oscar® Winner

THE THING - Tiomkin
THE GOLDEN VOYAGE OF SINBAD - Rozsa
KING KONG - Barry...are you reading this, Silva??????
WHITE WITCH DOCTOR - Herrmann
THE LETTER - Steiner
THE SEA WOLF - Korngold
SUMMER AND SMOKE - Bernstein
posted 01-31-2000 10:54 AM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

No offense meant, but what do we need with a rerecording of Barry's KONG? The existing (legal!) CD is good enough for me. Maybe with expanded tracks -- it was recorded in London or Rome, I think, so theoretically one could go back to the tapes and do a COMPLETE OST without running up too big a bill.
posted 01-31-2000 11:25 AM PT (US) 
JEC
Oscar® Winner

Better stick with the original tracks of KING KONG by Barry if they're available. I've not seen that version of the movie or heard the score. But Silva's track record with Barry's re-recordings is not too swift.
It's one thing for Raine to alter tempos, but his reconstructions tamper too much with the original orchestrations.
posted 01-31-2000 11:37 AM PT (US) 
Mark Hatfield
Oscar® Winner

Marc Flake has excellent taste!!
Ditto to all the scores/suites listed in his post, and add the following:THE LAND THAT TIME FORGOT
THE PEOPLE THAT TIME FORGOT
AT THE EARTH'S CORE
WARLORDS OF ATLANTISThese could be full scores, or a single CD with a suite from each. I know, I know total cheese. What can I say? The films themselves are a guilty pleasure -- watching Doug McClure act has an eerie hypnotic effect, probably similar to a car wreck in progress. You can't believe it's happening right in front of you......whose fault was this, anyway?......how awful!....I really shouldn't be watching this, but I am so CONCERNED....glad I made it through THAT.

Besides, the scores are fun & pushed my bombast button.
NP: THE WIND AND THE LION 5/5*posted 01-31-2000 11:47 AM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

I adore John Scott's score for THE PEOPLE THAT TIME FORGOT -- it seems incredible that that score's never been issued, even on John Scott's own label; perhaps the tapes are lost -- and the main and end titles for AT THE EARTH'S CORE are nice too. Music by Mike Vickers (who?). It was odd to me that just the opening and closing (according to my memory) were orchestral, while the REST of the score was ELECTRONIC. Very strange.Anybody seen or heard WARLORDS OF ATLANTIS, the last in the Edgar Rice Burroughs/John Dark (producer)/Kevin Connor (director) cycle? It was the only one of those four pictures not to be shown on TV in New York. I'm sure I don't know why.
posted 01-31-2000 01:20 PM PT (US) 
H Rocco
Oscar® Winner

-[This message has been edited by H Rocco (edited 01 February 2000).]
posted 01-31-2000 01:20 PM PT (US) 
Ron Pulliam

Oscar® Winner

Please tell me the thread originator was generalizing when he included Marco Polo as a label only recording titles that will sell!Please tell me you were clueless about the Marco Polo catalog!
Indeed, John Morgan and William Stromberg do NOT re-record scores just because they're hot titles....they re-record scores that have either never been heard away from the films or when they feel they can present a better, more accurate reflection of the score as it was originally conceived/recorded. Primarily, of course, they re-record scores they love! And that's just great since their taste in film scores is first-rate.
Marco Polo's "King Kong" is not the first recording, but it certainly offers a more accurate performance in terms of tempi and numbers of instruments used. As for "The Egyptian," the only other score they've done that was avaialble elsewhere, they performed an enormous service by recording virtually the entire score featuring music written by both Newman and Herrmann and in the correct order. This particular re-recording is awesome and invaluable...certainly more significant than most re-recordings we've been treated to over the past few years, no matter how well done. "The Egyptian" on Marco Polo is twice as long as the original score recording Newman conducted for Decca in 1954.
As for other Marco Polo offerings -- the Friedhofer CD, the Victor Young CD, the Newman CD -- all offer non-commercial recordings of music that, for the most part, will never be available as OSTs ("All About Eve" on the Newman CD -- that one selection -- being the exception, since the original soundtrack has since been released on FSM's golden age label). Then there's Steiner's "They Died With Their Boots On," Waxman's "Mr. Skeffington," and Korngold's "Devotion" -- all splendid scores and lovingly re-recorded with great pains by Morgan to re-orchestrate to the composers' original specifications.
Now I know Marco Polo wants these scores to sell. Morgan and Stromberg do, too. And I think Marco Polo has been surprised by the performance of some of the titles they weren't sure would sell.
And certainly Varese definitely has dollar signs in mind when they re-record scores. And why not! It has always seemed strange to me they re-recorded "Somewhere in Time" and "Out of Africa" when more than enough of both those scores was (and is) available on the OSTs. Then, of course, we get the "strange" Varese "concertized sound" recordings that -- for me -- ruin the listening experience. Add to that some very strange interpretations of cues and you get unholy messes (such as in "Agony and the Ecstasy" and "Patton").
No, Marco Polo is doing just great without our recommendations. Many of the suggestions above are for scores readily available -- on CD -- in cutout bins across the USA. Plus, if the scores were on LP, you can get CD-Rs of them from people who have the LPs.
WHAT A WASTE to re-record someting already available when there are hundreds of worthy scores out there that may never be recorded in any way.
Ron
[This message has been edited by Ron Pulliam (edited 31 January 2000).]
posted 01-31-2000 01:55 PM PT (US) 
Ford A. Thaxton

Oscar® Winner

A Few random thoughts that might add something to the discussion:(1.) VARESE's recordings of both "Out of Africa" and "Somewhere in Time" SELL very well and help underwrite recordings such as "Midway", "Streetcar Named Desire",etc..
Which won't well anywhere near well enough to recoup their costs.(2.) SILVA SCREEN has recorded more never before available film music then any other label out there, among the items they've recorded include "Raise the Titanic", "War of the Worlds", "When Worlds Collide", "Robin and Marian",etc... Film Music fans have alot to thank them for.
(3.) Nic Raine knows what the hell he's doing IMHO, Silva's recordings of Barry's muisc IMHO are vastly superior in many cases then Barry's own attempts to record his own music of late.
Just a few highly biased opinions, take them as we you will.posted 01-31-2000 05:26 PM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

Well spoken Ford!Of note I would mention Goldsmith's The Final Conflict for a new recording (the original on Varese has lousy sound) considering how many people post this amongst their top JG scores!
I'm sure it would be a popular sell?!
posted 01-31-2000 05:54 PM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

On second thoughts......cost of choir etc, it's probabaly not viable!
posted 01-31-2000 05:57 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Oscar® Winner

I am aware that there have been a lot of good re-recordings done--much more now than in the past. When I look over the filmographies of the major composers, I realize that for Tiomkin, for Herrmann, for Rozsa, etc. most of the major scores have been recorded in one way or another--it's a great time to be a collector of this music.As for other CDs-- I'm aware that some of these releases have been risky for the companies involved. I understand the economics of the situation--that some scores pay for others. I also understand that it's not all business, it's also a labor of love for the people involved. I think it's great that Marco Polo did Newman and Friedhofer and Young and now Webb and Arnold.
If I'm being critical, it's because I'm being impatient. When I hear that there's going to be a re-recording of Born Free, I mean fine, I'll probably buy it, I don't have a CD of this, but I do have an LP of it which has been fine all these years. When do I get something else? I keep thinking about scores I want that nobody has ever put out as an LP or CD or re-recording or anything, things I consider serious omissions not to have. When do these show up?
Actually, some of the scores I've wanted to have have shown up--some wonderfully performed, others lifeless and hideously off the mark. Can I hope to have yet another version of an already recorded score done again closer to home?
I realize all I'm saying is just my own selfish opinion on what I think should be done, but others have their own ideas and together they point to what I think record companies should at least take into consideration. I realize I'm tough to please. I also realize that you have standards and are trying to please me. Still, there's a slack I can feel--I feel it in every bad performance and I feel it in every unneeded recording. I'm not a record producer, I can't take up that slack. But as a record buyer, I feel it.
I agree with you Mr. Winfrey about your want list. The Westerner, Tarzan and the Mermaids, and His Majesty O'Keefe are all great Tiomkin scores. I'd add wanting a more complete Dial M for Murder to the other Tiomkin suggestions (like The War Wagon) that were made earlier.
[This message has been edited by Lou Goldberg (edited 01 February 2000).]
posted 02-01-2000 09:56 PM PT (US) 
Tom Scofield
unregistered
Boy, JEC, you just about read my mind, I agree just about 100% on every score you mentioned. I love Malcolm Arnold, Les Baxter (as everyone knows by now) and just about everyone you listed.I was really glad to see the Sawtell/Shefter DOG OF FLANDERS score listed. It's wonderful music from this much underrated duo. Have you ever heard Sawtell's score to Orson Welles BLACK MAGIC (1949, I think), a great, underrated movie that was mostly directed by Welles, uncredited? It's about Cagliostro and the affair of the queen's (Marie Antoinette) necklace. Wonderful stuff and Sawtell really outdoes himself (it was scored before he hooked up with Shefter). I think the score is so good, I would not be embarassed to put it in the same lofty terrain as some of Herrmann's work. If you haven't seen this film, you really must. I think it is available on tape.
posted 02-07-2000 03:22 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
