I have a feeling this post will either be competely ignored or become a complete disaster...

SFT

Personally, I feel pretty betrayed. How could you do this? ...Personally, I don't know how you are going to pull yourself out of this one. You've lied to everyone.

An issue like this has NEVER come up here at Moviemusic before - and it certainly hasn't ever come up during my online adventures with Peter Kelly. TRUST is a big thing to me, and I certainly have poured a lot of it into this site. Hell, I designed the profiles site AROUND trust, what am I supposed to do with it now? Aaron, that probably isn't even your own picture. If you are willing to lie to us about one composition, I'm sure you've lied to not only me, but other people as well about everything else. SCENARIO: A young, 17 y.o. prodigy composer, supported by his family, his community, his state - is granted command of a complete orchestra to do with them as he pleases? Composer camps with John Williams and Alan Menken? National Geographic? Disney? ESPN??

Frankly, and I hope you all understand me when I say: I'm crushed. I made a choice, out of trust, to help Aaron w/ a few things where I could... like delivering the music to you guys. It makes me sick to think I was delivering a plagerized work. First of all, I'd like to apologize to Antonio Genovino. Secondly, to anyone else Aaron has done this to. Hmmm, Aaron... is that even your real name? See what kind of questions and doubts this raises? I HATE THIS. Here at Moviemusic.com, we've created a community that respects each other's opinions... and in some cases, produced some pretty cool friendships. Personally, Justin and Kyp have become close friends of mine. Regardless, you've spoiled the atmosphere by doing this. I think I'm going to go e-mail everyone and apologize to them for helping you... and forward them to this thread. This disgusts me. What a way to start off my school day.

Also, do check out the following link:
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/8/antonio_genovino.html

Click on the song entitled "Adventures." Like IBGormless said, it's the EXACT same song.

I'm sorry everyone. As much as it hurts me to say this: "Aaron Collins" is a fraud.

Jeron

PS - Aaron, I'm not going to kill you, as I'm a very forgiving person - but I do expect a full explanation next time I see you online. Like I said, I trusted you. I believe everyone gets a second chance - so I'll listen to you. You had better have something good to say about all of this.

You've not only waisted the time of many of us here, but also your own. No one alive has anything to gain from telling lies, and you're no exception.

So you're sitting there now, laughing your ass off at most of us eh? Fine, that does not bother me, nor does the fact you used us even bother me, no no. What bothers me is your obvious lack of respect for other peoples work, so lacking is it that you steal it and call it your own!

Also, to try and credit yourself here as one of these amazing children, who do exist, and who can do what they claim FOR REAL at such an age, is frankly disgusting.

PeterK and the people of this forum deserve an apology, as does Antonio Genovino and whoever else you seem to have stolen from.

The ball is in your court...

1. A kid who read our posts and really wanted to seem to be a part of it, and felt it necessary to fabricate a fantasy world to gain respect; or, more likely,

2. Someone who simply wanted to exploit the "anonymity" of the Internet to perpetrate a very mean-spirited joke. He (or she) probably was surprised that it went on so long before he (or she) got caught.

Again I repeat, sad, isn't it? But, to paraphrase the great Meredith Wilson, we're now the "sadder but wiser" music board. Don't let it destroy your enthusiasm, just make you a little more cautious.

Thus, I am not surprised to learn this, although I have neither heard Aaron's alleged theme nor the real composer's work.

I think Jonathan is on to something - this might be a sad situation, in which a young teenager desperately wanting attention, respect and admiration from a somewhat older community, exploits the anarchy of internet to create a "fantasy person".

--Crono/Kyp

You know, thats the problem with the internet: people can say anything they like, and do anything they like, without having to be held responsible for it in any way.

Here, the keyword it TRUST as Jeron so nicely put it. If we donīt trust each other, what point is there in having a site such as this? I have been here from the very begining and I have allways posted here under the impression that people where HONEST with me. I consider every one here freinds, people who I can talk to about my passion for filmmusic and share information with. Call me naive but thats how I feel or at least felt. I never though somebody would pretend to be someone theyīre not...I find it rather pathetic that someone would waste his/her time, doing what Aaron has done here. Who the hell do you think you are?

I have certainly learned to be a bit more cautious, but on the other hand Aaron has also filled me with doubts about this community. He has raised the fundemental question: When I have never met, seen or actually talked to any of you, how can I be sure that you really are who you say you are? Damn you Aaron Collins (or whoever you are) for doing this to me and all the other HONEST peolple here!

Iīve been going through this in my mind trying to figure it out. WHY did you do this Aaron? What did you possibly think you could gain?
I donīt get it. And what bothers me the most is your lack of respect, which Dan also pointed out. We credit these composers whom we admire so much, for being ARTIST creating MUSIC...and then you come along and do this. You should be ashamed. All this does, is show people that youīve never really cared about filmmusic in the first place.
I doubt we will ever hear from you again Aaron, because frankly, there isnīt really anything you could say that would change the facts. You stole another composers work and called it your own. You give the rest of us a bad name.

In any case, I think it would be best for all of us to move on and forget this ever happened. Letīs not turn this into a place of distrust. Forget about Aaron Collins and concentrate on the future.

SFT

PS: Jeron, I hope this will not cause you to close the profiles site, which is a great idea. Please donīt think the rest of us are like Mr. Collins...at any rate, I would delete his profile right away.

Here's the accident:

I have one giant folder of mp3's... my music and others... This included music you sent me or soundtrack's I downloaded. I usually name my pieces similarly to the names of cues on sinundtracks... I happened to have 3 pieces named Adventure and I mislabeled them somehow... It was an accident, and I know most of you will hate me!

I might sound fake, a figment of my imiganation. But, I am not! I am Aaron Collins and I am a composer!

Emails will be sent to Mr. Genovino as I am sure he will understand, and to PeterK, with many scans of info ans stuff of my works and tapes. I am sorry and I feel I bistrayed all of you, especially the ones I grew especially too.

I am sorry!

IM me at Shaggenman
or email me at acollins@bv.net

I will try to explain as best as I can..

Sorry,
Aaron

But, if you want the benefit of the doubt, post a link to the "real" piece you wrote, and let's hear this ADVENTURE with two themes and an ebullient feel where you used a choir, too.

(Oh, that sounds remarkably like what we already heard!!)

Perhaps Aaron did steal another composer's work. Perhaps he didn't. As SFT noted, we here on the internet can say or do anything we want to. Frankly, out word is our bond. I see that Aaron has responded to this, that he stated it was an error. Perhaps it was...perhaps not.

Taking the people on this message board to task...I feel compelled to ask you all a question...what does Aaron have to gain by plagiarising? Oh, sure, there will be arguments saying he probably thought no one would ever catch him or that he wanted to appear to be better than he is...all perhaps true...but does Aaron seem to be the idiot that he is being portrayed as? If HE found that track on the web...wouldn't it be logical to assume that any one of us film score enthusiasts might find it as well...call him on it and demand an explanation? Perhaps I am just overly optimistic and naive, but I for one would expect it...that is, expect being discovered.

I am new here to this board, granted, and I do not know all of you as I might know some on FSM. However, I am particularly upset with Thor's statements, where he claims to have suspected Aaron of being a fraud immediately upon reading his profile. That would be like me thinking Mozart was a fraud because no 13 year old in their right mind could POSSIBLY be as talented as that kid was...especially in a time and place as he grew up in...or wondering how someone like my friend Brian Langsbard, a composer in Hollywood, could possibly create such beautiful music...WITH ORCHESTRA (I saw him perorm his music live) at the age of 17.

DAMMIT..it CAN happen. I challenge all of you here at this board to give Aaron the benefit of the doubt. Could his explanation be plausible? Could he have made a mistake? Finally, I ask...who are WE to judge what a young man would or would not do? None of us is perfect by any streatch of the imagination, though I am sure some of us truly believe we are.

The sad thing is...we immediately assume the worst of Aaron. We call him a plagiarist. A liar. A thief. We call him filth, decree that his actions are disgusting...and yet have no way of knowing the truth.

Go to your hearts...Jeron, Dan, all of you who "know" Aaron. Has he ever led any of you to believe that his character would lead him to this action? Those of us who DON'T "know" him should keep our mouths shut before making accusations and being armchair prophets. We have no right.

I await a response to my email to Aaron, asking for the whole story. I hope that the rest of you are willing to give him the same benefit of the doubt...and if the verdict comes back favorable to Aaron, are willing to send out the same apology notes you would have requested of him.

Thanks for reading.

First, I listened to the Adventure track from this Italien composer. I couldn't find any similarities between that track and the only two ones I have received from Aaron (Discovery and Love Theme (from Frankenstein))

Second, I alway and I mean ALWAYS presume that a person is innocent until proven guilty. I couldn't see Aaron doing this after all the e-mail and help he gave me thus far.

Mistakes can happen and this is a mistake that really could be true. Yet in many there is that doubt now that will be hard to erase.

I think many of jumped on the bandwagon too soon. Although something might sound like a no brainer, any person every person has the right to defend himself.

Mr.IBGormless, while I really appreciate you communicating your findings to our group here, I do believe you should have contacted Aaron one on one and ask him about it beforehand. This would have been the tactful way to do. Aaron should have been shown that much consideration.

Now there will be in some peoples mind the question of Aaron being a fraud. His reputaion is harmed although he is presumably innocent and just made a huge mistake.

I think we all need to apologize to Aaron for making rash judgements based on some rather explainable facts and let the man redeem himself or take care of his mistakes.

Remember guys, to accuse is easy, very easy but to prove ones innocence can be very hard that's why we have a legal system in this country that presumes the accused to be innocent, where guilt has to be proven.

One last note, presume Aaron made this mistake and he is who he saiy;s he is (and I believe him) imagine how he feels now. I wouldn't want to go through it.

Yes, call me naive. But I rather be a person who got tricked than a person who wrongfully accuses someone.

Can we please make a rule that if we think someone is a sham that we try to contact that pereson first and get his/her side first before we distribute it all onto this board? A lot of heardache and emotional distress would be avoided.

Scott

Aaron, I apologize... of course, we talked earlier, so I think you know what my feelings about this are.

Jeron

Maybe we did presume too much, maybe we didnīt really give Aaron a chance. I am sorry about that.

But thatīs the problem with the internet, once again: Either Aaronīs explanation (which I think is completely plausible) is true, or it is not true. There is really no way of knowing.
I think it is a shame that a dumb mistake could lead to destroying your reputation here, Aaron. If you can provide some sort of proof (because, honestly, thatīs what you will need to regain peoples trust) that what you are saying is the truth, I will certainly forget this ever happened. And I am convinced everyone else will too. I am sure, the members of this board can look past your mistake and treat you with respect just like we allways have. After all, we are all here for the same reason. Right?

SFT

In other words, we are all operating under an umbrella of trust, of which we are not very aware most of the time. But trust is a very fragile commodity -- it takes a long time to build and only one second to destroy. I am someone who takes things very much at face value. If something walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and squawks like a duck, it's a duck.

If someone sends me a piece of music and claims that it is their own, I believe that until it is proven otherwise. That is exactly what happened here. Aaron sent out some music, and it was proven, beyond doubt, that he did NOT write it. Now, that may have been accidental or it may have been deliberate, but the fact remains that our beliefs about him were instantly challenged, and the umbrella of trust that I spoke about came crashing down around our feet.

Is that a bad thing? Is that wrong? Well, that's a topic for debate, perhaps, but it is the "nature of the beast." I, too, am a firm believer in second chances, as I have needed them occasionally in my own life. But, I must admit, I'm still a little "sadder and wiser" because of the whole brouhaha.

Now, I'm not naive, so I know these things happen (boy, could we start a Horner-bashing symbolistic scenario here), but I want to hear the whole story.

Also, Jeron is right that this should not have been brought up on here, but in private. This just causes more rifts and discomfort among the long-time members of this board. That cannot be allowed to happen.

Like I said, I will reserve judgement until all the facts are in and Aaron has proved his case. Until then, everyone should lay off.

Kevin

(sotto voce PS) I'm going to be on the local television tonight, but I really don't want to mention it too loud, lest I be accused of faking my personage or the photographs that will be published.

"But, if you want the benefit of the doubt, post a link to the "real" piece you wrote, and let's hear this ADVENTURE with two themes and an ebullient feel where you used a choir, too.

(Oh, that sounds remarkably like what we already heard!!)"

What about that extreme coincidence?

Shaun

quote:

---

Go to your hearts...Jeron, Dan, all of you who "know" Aaron. Has he ever led any of you to believe that his character would lead him to this action?

---

Nicely put. Personally, in many situation one automaticaly will assume the worst, force of habbit and nature for human beings.

With the information from Aaron I think it is a very plausible mistake, and mistakes do happen. I mean heck sh*t happens!

Now unfotrunately when one makes a mistake and lands themselves up in a bit of a sticky hole, they must dig out of it, or loose akll respect altogether. Now Aaron is digging himself out of it, he's told us there was an error and he seems content in fixing it...

Because of this new news we can not make a final judgement. Am I contradicting my post above? No not really, those wee my words when I first heard the news. When something like that happens you just speak what is immeiately on ones mind, never sitting back to think of the reasoning behind such an error. As said, it's human nature to do this!

So now where do I stand from here? I remain open minded, and although it may feel it (it does to me) having a 50/50 judgement is not a wrong thing. It was a simple mistake, and Aaron must proove our bad thoughts wrong..

Dan (UK)

If Aaron accidentally sent out the wrong file, this is understandable. Mistakes happen. How to fix this? Distribute the correct file.

As for young musicians and composers, they do exist. In fact, there are organizations promoting young musicians. One comes to mind immediately, The YMF, or Young Musicians Foundation. Awesome talent in this group.

Now we all know what happenes when we accuse in public as a first resort. Feelings are hurt, trust is broken, things fall apart. All seemingly unnecessary, but this kind of thing happens all the time. And, as the Creator expertly envisioned, there is plenty good to be found in the midst of negativity. Soon, we will all get a clearer picture of what really happened, maybe some apologies need to be made, and everyone should forgive, forget and move on.

After going through such turmoil, I think all of us will have gained something from this.

PeterK

NP - "Onegin" by Magnus Fiennes

I plan on letting this sit for a little while and get my head straight. After all, the implications made are very, very bad. However, we must let all the facts be heard before anyone can make judgement upon anyone. I for one understand fully how this could have happened and hope deep down that what Aaron has said is true.

So, Aaron...I won't ask you or anyone else to explain yourself. I don't need an explaination because if I ask for it I have lowered this message board somehow. Personally, I feel that this whole incident is as bad as the accusation itself. How would you like it if your character was insulted so much?

Let us just drop this before our board falls to the level of countless other sites out there that can't think straight and rave on the stupidest of targets. Who knows...I don't know if what Aaron said is true or not. I just know that after looking at a forum board for ten minutes I'm not in a position to judge any character, whoever that might be.

As artistically minded people, surely you understand some of the gravity of the situation. Imagine, for one brief instant, how betrayed you would all feel if it were suddenly revealed that [pick your favorite composer]'s works were actually written by someone else. Art and music is a celebration of an individual's creativity and communication with others. To rob someone of that is a violation, indeed.

Again, I don't know if this was an accident or not, but we certainly do NOT "lower ourselves" by requiring someone to be honest and forthright in their dealings with us. It is not an insult to say to someone, "You said you wrote this, but you didn't." That is just a statement of fact.

So what we are all wondering is not whether or not it occurred, but whether the intent was to deceive. I hope it wasn't. However, I am still finding it very difficult to believe that someone could hand you something and say "This is mine" without looking at it (or listening to it). I suppose it could happen, but there are other "coincidences" that remain to be explained.

NP - Point Break - Isham

The statement was made that all that was said is that Aaron said he wrote music and he didn't. Those were the facts it was said. Wrong.

These are the facts: There is a piece that seems to be exactly the same as Aaron has sent to some of the memebers here. Bare facts.

Aaron has been cursed at and humilitaed to great degree. No on here has any proof.

Did Aaron make a monentary profit? I don't think so. So why do we feel like he did the worst thing in the world? That is if he did plagerize, which I don't believe.

Aaron, has the same standing with me as he had before. A silly mistake. Guess what? He is human as are we.

Who among this post backed Clinton when he made his -so called- silly mistake? If you backed your PRedsident up then, then you have to back Aaron.

If you didn't back Clinton, then you have enough ethics to still back Aaron.

As far as I'm concerned, Aaron doesn't have to prove anything to me.

Where this a court of law, the burden of proof would rest on the state, not Aaron for his defense is credible and possible.

Let's hope non of us have to go threw what Aaron must be going through right now. Being falsly accused is the worst.

And again, if you are going to accuse someone, contact them first. All of this could have been avoided by just contacitng Aaron and asking him what's going on. All we have accomplished here is a lot of hurt feelings, sadness and knowledge of how the press can distroy perfect lives.

Let me see, how small will the apologies be when the dust is settled and we found out that it all was a mistake?

In the words of One who is perfect in all ways,"He who is without fault, cast the first stone"(paraphrased)

I've mislabled files before. And he appologized. Lets leave it at that...maybe he will let us listen to some of his acutall work in the future.

dave

The right wing sure has enough ammo here to start a war...

Just my humble opinion, of course....
(where is McCarthy when you NEED him?)

Whooops!!! It would seem people are taking me seriously here...when in fact I am just annoyed that people are pursecuting Aaron. I want to make it PERFECTLY clear that I am 100% behind him...and support Jeron and all of those who are trying to help him out! Please read the above comments as sarcastic annoyance at the witch-hunt mentally that seems to be flowing...

Sorry to those who may have thought otherwise.

Love ya all!

Joe

He's also getting his work copyrighted (the one he labored 13-hours over), so - according to him, we'll have something to listen to in 2-3 days.

That's the latest, folks.

OK, if I am to be Oliver Stone, here is the "conspiracy" that is being pulled over on us by Aaron (this is pure speculation, folks, don't kill me!):

THE DISTRIBUTION
Aaron (through Jeron, I believe) distributes his composition, titled Adventures. It is, like Aaron said, a piece that contains "two themes and is basically fanfaric and a ebbulient, upbeat piece".

THE DISCOVERY
Earlier this afternoon, a few of us get the notice from Jeron that there is an interesting development in the Aaron Collins department. We click on the link and read.....

THE ACCIDENT
Jeron sends us his confrontation with Aaron, in which Aaron realizes that he's sent everyone the wrong file. He first says that he had written 3 different Adventures and had labeled them incorrectly, but later on in the same conversation, he says that he has FIVE adventures, not three. I'm confused on that one.

THE COVER-UP
While we all coil up and begin to apologize to Aaron for the "Witch Hunt", as Joe put it, where is Aaron? Well, as we continue to ask Aaron to send us the ACTUAL piece he labored over for 13 hours, he doesn't send it. Why? "He's not posting anything until he gets replies back from both Genovino and PeterK. He feels uncomfortable posting without any evidence to support what he's saying........he's also getting his work copyrighted, so we'll have something to listen to in 2-3 days."

Now, maybe it's just me, but is anybody else thinking that he's right now just trying to write the REAL piece and he actually DID send the other composer's track not thinking anybody would find out? I mean, he's getting it COPYRIGHTED? That quickly? I don't know much about getting Copyrights, but it cannot take only 2-3 days to get one!

Does anybody agree with me in the slightest? I mean, just a little even.....this is just what I'm thinking now.

Well, I was sitting here reading all the replies and I figured I might as well clear my plate! Well, the controversy everyone is aware of. Sooo many conspiricy theories on this topic! Well, there really isn't no theory needed. The truth is I sent out the wrong file! When I found out I did this, I was very worried and I felt downright idiotic.
I have sent out apologies to several people, including PeterK and Geniveno.
This was a big mishap and I am still very hurt for what I have caused; betrayal, manipulation, etc. Why on Earth would I steal from a good composer like that or any composer? THE SENTENCE IS BIG! $250,000 AND JAIL TIME...

WHY RISK IT?

People ask me why do I have his music on my computer. The answer is easy! I happen to know who his teacher is and I was seeing if his style was similar to his teachers style.

Shaun, your theory is great and may be a good script, but it is wrong! I am busy as it is with School, Composing, and performing. I have no time to continue right now on the Suite! Although, I HAVE sent it to a few people and it is in fact in there grips! It is not done, and it is fanfaric and ebbulient. PLUS, it has a choir in it! and it is my music... meaning that for people that said my music did not sound like Genivino, this is mine and it sounds like me! Eventually this piece will be worked on by all composers on this site. The first to do work and play with it is Gae!

Well, if I did not clear everything up I will either tommorrow or Wednesday! Thanks for you all that are supporting me. I am deeply sorry for this and I hope this can be washed away!

Sorry,
Aaron

I've heard the *real* "Moviemusic Adventure" piece Aaron composed. He sent it to me tonight, in confidence that it might prove to me he's legit. I must say, it sounds more like what he's submitted before: Discovery and The Storm. He doesn't want it distributed until he *submits* it for copyright, which will be within the next 2-3 days. He said it could take as long as a week for a copyright to clear, but that as long as it's submitted, he doesn't mind distributing know it will be copyrighted.

Even more convincingly, this is a mock up of his music, done w/ his Sound Blaster Live! sound card (I have one, too - and the sounds are legit) in midi format. Him claiming the other as a SB Live! composition sounded ludicrous to me, because it was obviously done on a more advanced synth. Genovino's music was performed with (and I quote from that website): "Piano, synthesizers, computer, EMU ESI-32 sampler, Cubase VST, Digidesign Session8, Tascam DA-88, Event Gina, digital orchestral sounds."

Aaron never claimed to have these resources. The only thing he ever claimed to have was an SB Live... and this composition sure supports that. Everyone would be composing if they could buy something that sounded that good for $120 or less.

What he sent me is certainly more along the lines of fanfaric and upbeat... but not like the other one. The Genovino piece was simply overstated... and overdone. I didn't like it. Frankly, I refused to believe it was Aaron's to begin with, but he insisted because he thought he'd sent me the right file.

The midi runs 7:11 in length, and from what i can tell - there are two themes and a choral part towards the end. I'm sure it would sound great w/ an orchestra or band... and according to Aaron, we will be hearing it that way, after he collaborates with Gae and a few others. Apparently they are going to be co-composing this effort. I dunno how that will go, but I guess we'll see.

Jeron

NP - The "REAL" Moviemusic Overture