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      STRANGE SOUNDS-INNOVATIONAL SCORES

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    Topic:   STRANGE SOUNDS-INNOVATIONAL SCORES

     THE GREEK
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I have a question for all you soundtrack listeners.What do you think is the most innovational and strange movie score you've ever heard?I believe that the history of film music has given us great examples of experimental and completely film music.My preferences?
    Herrmann's THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, Williams' IMAGES, Gill Melle's THE ANDROMEDA STRAIN, Philipe Sarde's LE SEINS DE GLACE, Goldsmith's THE PLANET OF THE APES, Tiomkin's THE THING, Corigliano's ALTERED STATES.
    These scores have given filmmusic a new direction.There are many more offcourse.
    I'd like to know your opinion and i'd also like to knoe if there is anyone who believes that modern film composers(90ies)have offered something fresh to film music.

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    posted 01-23-2000 11:04 AM PT (US)     

     Nicolai P. Zwar
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    The (rejected) score Christopher Young wrote for Tobe Hooper's "Invader's From Mars" is one of the weirdest and unconventional motion picture scores I've ever heard.


    NP: Philip Glass: "La Belle et la Bete" (Nonesuch)

    [This message has been edited by Nicolai P. Zwar (edited 23 January 2000).]

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    posted 01-23-2000 01:55 PM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I should point out that Chris Young's INVADERS FROM MARS score was not ENTIRELY rejected -- just MOST of it. The main title and a few other bits were retained, as was his front credit, and his newspaper and poster ads credits. But the first LP soundtrack that emerged consisted entirely of the tedious synthesizer noodlings of David Storrs.

    Just one of those things.

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    posted 01-23-2000 03:19 PM PT (US)     

     Tom Scofield
    unregistered  

    Les Baxter's score to Roger Corman's PIT AND THE PENDULUM was probably as far out as any score written up to the time of its release (1961). It runs the gamut from 16th Century Spanish harpsicord/clavier stylings, to super lush romantic to extremely vivid dissonant, 12-tone/atonal writing, with touches of microtonality, musique concrete and unusual, but not gimmicky, electronic effects.

    Composers as diverse as Ennio Morricone, Lalo Schifrin, Riz Ortolani and Toru Takimitsu (KWAIDAN was both visually and musically inspired by Corman's film according to the Japanese composer) have spoken of this score and Baxter as an influence.

    Baxter's Theremin recordings of the '40s and his Moog Synthesizer work were also obviously very influential, the former especially so in the sci-fi scores of the '50s (Dimitri Tiomkin was introduced to Samuel Hoffman by Les Baxter).

    [This message has been edited by Tom Scofield (edited 23 January 2000).]

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    posted 01-23-2000 10:00 PM PT (US)     

     spango
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    Nicolai is right, INVADERS FROM MARS is really a weired piece of music (may I call this conglomerat of noises so?). Hypnotising and surprising stuff.
    bewildered by invaders from anywhere
    -spango

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    posted 01-24-2000 12:24 AM PT (US)     

     Tom Scofield
    unregistered  

    I'd have to say that Raoul Kraushaar's (actually Mort Glickman ghosting for Kraushaar) score to the original INVADERS FROM MARS is a pretty strange score for its time, there is some very unusual music for both the main titles and an utterly odd use of choral ostinato vocal modulations when the victims are pulled down into the Martian sandpit, very spooky.

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    posted 01-24-2000 02:24 AM PT (US)     

     Lancelot
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    Honestly, I believe "Ladyhawke" was incredibly innovative for a film score of that time and genre.

    Aroung the same time, the synthesizers used in "WarGames" (yet another Broderick movie), were incredibly effective, highlighting the technological overtones, (synthesizers chanting "war war war" in the climax) before giving in to traditional instrumental/symphonic ending, led with harmonica.


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    posted 01-24-2000 06:41 AM PT (US)     

     spango
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    LADYHAWKE was also one of the worst...

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    posted 01-24-2000 04:19 PM PT (US)     

     Lancelot
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    ....well that's what a free society is good for. Expressing opinions.

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    posted 01-25-2000 04:40 AM PT (US)     

     Thor
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    I've written a defense of the "Ladyhawke" score. Go here to read it: http://home.sol.no/~oeyste/SpeakingB.htm

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    posted 01-25-2000 04:45 AM PT (US)     

     THE GREEK
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I was mooved by Tom's opinion about Les Baxter.I believe that his music is really great, especially the one he wrote for the Corman films.I wish that sometime the original master tapes will be the source of a great CD release.I'm also hoping for a second Ronald Stein CD that will contain his superb music for THE RAIN PEOPLE.
    As for strange music what about THE WICKER MAN?
    The opinion about Chris Young was also great.
    This guy is a gifted composer.

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    posted 01-25-2000 10:36 AM PT (US)     

     Dr.Evil
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    Innovational: Goldsmith's " Planet of the Apes ", but in strange sounds category, Williams' " Images ", Goldsmith's " Illustraded Man " and " Reincarnation of Peter Proud ".

    P.S. Thor ( who else?) is a damn funny person!! Ladyhawke have now a defensor!!
    Kidding...

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    posted 01-25-2000 10:42 AM PT (US)     

     Steve Hughes
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    Ever heard Christopher Young's score to THE VAGRANT? Sounds like a chimpanzee covered in bells and wind-up toys falling down the stairs and onto a casio synthesizer. Wierd. By far his most experimental score... obviously it was awful.

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    posted 01-25-2000 10:46 AM PT (US)     

     Dr.Evil
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    Chimpanze? Casio keyboard?
    Man, you're talking about Hans Zimmer and the
    MTV's!!!
    Well, folks, I laughing..., sorry!

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    posted 01-25-2000 10:50 AM PT (US)     

     Andre Lux
    unregistered  

    I agree with all you guys. "Ladyhawke" is indeed one of the worst scores ever writen. When the orchestra appears it's ok, but when that disco stuff takes over... man, sound worst than any soundtrack for a low budget porno flick! Really embarrasing, specialy if you consider that the movie was so nice...


    I think Ennio Morricone has presented some great inovations to film music. His old western scores are filled with great and very original pieces, like "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" main theme where the orchestra incorporates a wolf crying. And I really love that froggy vocal croacks on "March of the Beggars" from "Duck, You Sucker!"...
    In fact if you listen to Morricone more carefully you'll find lots of stuff newcomers like Elfman and Young incorporated on their self-called "inovative" style, like the constant use of "little" voices, strange orchestrations and odd instruments...

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    posted 01-25-2000 04:29 PM PT (US)     

     Tom Scofield
    unregistered  

    Dear Greek:

    You're idea of someone recording Baxter's Poe scores is great. Why not send a note to Lukas Kendall at www.filmscoremonthly.com and give him you opinion. They do a lot of this kind of release. Maybe we can influence them toward a Baxter Film Score CD. Also, for more information about Baxter, look at www.lesbaxter.com which is run by his daughter and is a beautifully produced site.

    [This message has been edited by Tom Scofield (edited 25 January 2000).]

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    posted 01-25-2000 08:51 PM PT (US)     

     Geoff H
     Click Here to Email Geoff H
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    I always wondered why the fabulous opening title track from Hooper's "Invaders" wasn't on that boring album...

    And I thought the score to "The Vagrant" was great!

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    posted 01-25-2000 08:57 PM PT (US)     

     Cole
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    not to get back on topic or anything but I think Vince Dicola's score to transformers the movie was pretty innovative.
    what do you think?

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    posted 01-26-2000 04:15 AM PT (US)     

     HAL 2000
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I'm surprised noone has mentioned Lois and Bebe Barron's groundbreaking Forbidden Planet. One of the earliest experiments in electronic scoring. It's effect in the film is mesmerizing.

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    posted 01-26-2000 01:49 PM PT (US)     

     Greg Bryant
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    How about Westworld by Fred Karlin...interesting mix of Western guitar/banjo and percussive/avant-garde.

    [This message has been edited by Greg Bryant (edited 27 January 2000).]

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    posted 01-26-2000 05:05 PM PT (US)     

     THE GREEK
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    A message for Tom
    Do you have any idea of where the master tapes of Baxter's film music are?


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    posted 01-27-2000 11:27 AM PT (US)     

     Tom Scofield
    unregistered  

    Yes, the masters are now being held by MGM, the company that now owns the rights to AIP's pictures. I'm sure the master's are still available, because the recently produced Laser discs of THE LAST MAN ON EARTH, PANIC IN YEAR ZERO! and X-THE MAN WITH THE X-RAY EYES have separate music tracks, and if these are available, I'm sure that the Poe scores and Baxter's MASTER OF THE WORLD are available too.

    [This message has been edited by Tom Scofield (edited 27 January 2000).]

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    posted 01-27-2000 03:47 PM PT (US)     

     Greg Bryant
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    Seems like years ago (late 70's/early 80's) there was a release of Master of the World, maybe early Varese? I never picked it up because I was never very taken with the movie.

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    posted 01-27-2000 06:49 PM PT (US)     

     Tom Scofield
    unregistered  

    Les Baxter's MASTER OF THE WORLD was originally released on VeeJay in 1961. It was reissued in 1978 by Varese. Admittedly, the movie is just a so-so Jules Verne adaptation, but the score is one of the very best ever. The Max Steiner Music Society called the score "one of film music's highest summits" in 1975. The late Page Cook, FILMS IN REVIEW'S outstanding and highly respected music critic, put MASTER on his list of the greatest scores ever written.

    The score emerges as more or less THE prototype for all the big symphonic action/adventure scores that would emerge in the '70s, '80s and '90s, adding a more modernistic stylistic touch, yet retaining the melodious nature of Steiner, Tiomkin, Victor Young, Korngold, Newman, Herrmann and the like. John Williams was heavily influenced by Baxter and was often a keyboard player on many Baxter pop and film recordings.

    Baxter was one of respected film music writer Tony Thomas' favorites. Thomas even finaced the release of several small scale Baxter scores on his Citadel label.

    If the spectacular multi-channel original recordings of Baxter's Corman/Poe Scores (especially the incredible FALL OF THE HOUSE OF USHER and PIT AND THE PENDULUM) and the complete MASTER OF THE WORLD recordings could be located in MGM's vaults (MGM now owns the AIP library) a major re-evaluation of this remarkable composer's work would surely by undertaken. These tapes are probably still intact since recent laser disc releases of several lesser AIP films have had isolated music tracks.

    With the great interest that has emerged concerning Baxter's pop and "exotica" orchestral albums which have met with considerable success on re-issue, it would seem to be an almost certain success for any label adventurous and courageous enough to tackle the legacy of this erratic but brilliantly gifted composer.

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    posted 01-27-2000 11:02 PM PT (US)     

     Sean Bires
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    If you want two strange, bizarre (yet beautiful) scores, see the soundtracks to "GHOST in the SHELL" and "AKIRA"

    Yall's aint heard nothin' 'till ya heard these, jo...

    [This message has been edited by Sean Bires (edited 27 January 2000).]

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    posted 01-27-2000 11:03 PM PT (US)     

     Tom Scofield
    unregistered  

    Sean, do you like Sakamoto's ROYAL SPACE FORCE and Yoko Kanno's MACROSS PLUS?

    Both of these excellent Japanese composers are big fans of Les Baxter's "exotica" recordings, and consider him a very big influence.

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    posted 01-27-2000 11:20 PM PT (US)     

     Sean Bires
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    Yup... Royal Space Force (a.k.a. "The Wings of Honneamise") is great!

    I'm not too fond of the Macross Plus music though. It sounded a bit "generic" to me.

    I have not heard of Les Baxter before, but now that you mentioned it, I may have to check his music out...

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    posted 01-29-2000 12:35 AM PT (US)     

     THE GREEK
     Oscar® Winner
     

    Baxter's music for THE MASTER OF THE WORLD is one of the best scores i've ever heard.I must also mention the music for GOLIATH AND THE BARBARIANS, an LP i own and i consider myself lucky about it.
    MESSAGE FOR TOM.
    Tom i think that we have to do something so as the Baxter scores be released.It is a pitty that so much money are spent for the release of non worth released scores and nobody has expressed an interest for the release of Baxter's music.Do you have any idea?

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    posted 01-29-2000 11:37 AM PT (US)     

     spango
     Click Here to Email spango
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    It´s great to live in a free society! LADYHAWK is such bad because the score does by no means work with the movie. Tangerine Dream has made some great scores but this was a musical nightmare when I saw the film. BLACK CAT WHITE CAT is also a quite extraordinary score which is pure fun.
    best thanks to democracy
    -spango

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    posted 01-29-2000 04:39 PM PT (US)     

     Tom Scofield
    unregistered  

    Dear Greek:

    I have been very busy dealing with some problems generated by a letter I wrote that was published in the Film Score Monthly site that had to deal with Les Baxter's BLACK SUNDAY score. The letter was addressed to Lukas Kendall, the editor of Film Score Monthly, but he mistakenly posted it on the Friday site (it is still visible there), and it has generated a lot of hate mail toward me. So, trying to run damage control on that problem has been occupying my time in the last few days.

    I think the idea of us trying to get some of Baxter's scores out on CD is a wonderful idea. I agree with you, MASTER OF THE WORLD is truly one of the greatest scores ever! Have you ever seen the whole film or just heard the soundtrack album? The album only contains about 1/3 of the whole, wonderful score, and some of the best music is missing. I'll get back to you in a few days when I have this other problem smoothed out (hopefully, anyway).

    GOLIATH AND THE BARBARIANS is a terrific score also. Have you noticed the similarity of "Goliath's March" to the song "I'll Make a Man Out of You" from MULAN? Listen to the percussion section that opens the MULAN song and compare it to the two wild percussion passages during GOLIATH'S finale, they're virtually identical, and the Disney song is very similar, melodically to GOLIATH'S theme!

    [This message has been edited by Tom Scofield (edited 30 January 2000).]

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    posted 01-30-2000 08:05 PM PT (US)     
     

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