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Author	Topic: Horner and the 70+ score...

Scott Oscar® Winner	We all have complaint about the 30 min scores we get more often than not. Yes, we know the reasons why we get these limited score times yet I wonder about one thing. How is it that James Horner seems to be the only one or among the very few at least, who continusly releases these long over 70 min scores. Bicentenial Man, Zorro, Deep Impact, Joe Young, all of these were long scores (we don't want to even mention Titanic). Anyone got any ideas? Scott
posted 01-18-2000 08:32 AM PT (US)

Thor Oscar® Winner	Because of TITANIC....
posted 01-18-2000 08:37 AM PT (US)

Audacity Oscar® Winner	I agree with Thor, the "questionable" high sales of Titanic made the record companies think it was Horner that sold the album and not the Celine song. Why record companies haven't found this out yet and decreased the amount of his music they put on new scores I don't know. I am not complaining at all, the more movie music the better, but I think the success of Titanic was the sole reason we now see 70+ minute scores from Horner. Audacity NP Murder in the First (Christopher Young)*****
posted 01-18-2000 08:54 AM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	Remember though, well before TITANIC, Horner was already doing massively long albums. WILLOW was over 70 minutes long as well -- the longest soundtrack release up to its time, I believe. Other, relatively minor scores have lasted as long as an hour, or 45 minutes -- certainly weird when Horner wasn't the big name he became with TITANIC. Even the second COCOON lasts nearly an hour, and that's with Hollywood re-use prices. So how did/does he manage it? Horner's contract is a massive flat fee, which means to cover his creative fee, the recording costs (including hiring the orchestra), and buying out the re-use rights for the album (hence he records in London as often as possible, where the re-use is way cheaper). Horner controls the amount of music that will be put on the album; he OWNS the re-use rights in a certain sense (here we are getting into legalities I don't fully understand), and thus can put out all those masses of minutes. John Williams MIGHT have a similar deal, but it's much more likely that we get those massive albums because HE IS JOHN WILLIAMS and his stuff will automatically sell. Of course, THE PHANTOM MENACE was recorded in London as well. (Of his seven scores for Lucasfilm, only one wasn't done there -- THE LAST CRUSADE, which marked the beginning of a period where Williams decided it was just easier to record in Hollywood. I imagine one reason they returned to the London Symphony for THE PHANTOM MENACE was for nostalgia's sake.) I'm sure I'm missing part of the picture here, but something very much like this was explained to me a couple of years ago. John Ottman, on the other hand, manages to rerecord non-union every time, expressly in order that there can be an album without any fuss. I wonder how he gets away with it. If the union discovers a non-union recording going on in Hollywood, they'll show up and bust it. This happened on HELLBOUND: HELLRAISER II, which started as non-union in L.A. and got busted, meaning they had to move it to the Graunke Symphony in Munich. I've attended a couple of non-union scoring sessions -- not HELLBOUND -- and was both amused and vaguely intimidated by how tight security had to be. I couldn't breathe a word of it to anyone except for the precious few others on the "approved list."
posted 01-18-2000 10:06 AM PT (US)

SEBULBA Oscar® Winner	There were several 70+ min. scores from Horner before Titanic as well as at least 50+ min. scores, which is above average. Braveheart, Casper, Courage Under Fire, Jumanji, Clear and Present Danger. I don't remember exactly what came first, but Zorro and Mighty Joe Young. They were roughly around the same time as Titanic. Anyway, Horner has always somehow at least released a longer than average score.
posted 01-18-2000 10:42 AM PT (US)

Crono/Kyp Oscar® Winner	I also think it depends on the record label. Horner's last few scores have been put out by Sony Classical. They may have signed him to a contract, like that "other music" does with groups. Horner had sone long scores before "Titanic." --Crono/Kyp
posted 01-18-2000 11:27 AM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	Exactly guys. Horner had long scores out way before Titanic. And Willow wasn't the longest one at that time. Anyway, it bugs me that someone like Goldsmith has to limit himself to 30 min scores. How Williams can do these long scores, I assume like the rest of you because he is William. It just doesn't seem fair or right that the same is not with Goldsmith. Although his last scores Mummyu and 13th were quite longer. These unions...off with their head! Scott
posted 01-18-2000 11:56 AM PT (US)

Vladimir Oscar® Winner	well I am glad Horner's scores are at least 60 minutes.Because you get your money's worth.I hope he keeps the trend going
posted 01-18-2000 02:51 PM PT (US)

robin4 Oscar® Winner	Yeah, at least Horner does it!
posted 01-18-2000 04:01 PM PT (US)

Dr.Evil Oscar® Winner	No one can " blame " Horner here, as said, is he the only whose albums are 70 min. long. He is famous too for hios extra long cues. You can bash his music, but he is very carefull about how is music will be presented. Ripp-offs or not. And I still like it!
posted 01-18-2000 04:22 PM PT (US)

Matt Oscar® Winner	As people said..plenty of long scores before Titanic. Braveheart for example.-78 minutes...cant even burn it cause my blank cds are too short. this is a good thing people. Audacity: what do you mean by questionable? and it wasnt the damn Song, otherwise people would have bought the Celine Cd it was featured on more than the Titanic score. It helped mind you, but it wasnt THE reason.
posted 01-18-2000 04:41 PM PT (US)

Audacity Oscar® Winner	matt, Maybe I shouldn't have used the phrase "questionable high sales", there is no disputing the fact that the album sold a lot of copies. What I meant is that it is questionable as to what actually sold the album, Horner's score or the Celine song. Audacity
posted 01-19-2000 05:41 AM PT (US)

Thor Oscar® Winner	Just as the film, the score aimed at a vast audience, and that's why it became such a success (obviously!). Dion's song was the target of 14 year-old teenage girls in love with DiCaprio, while the very melodic and Enya-inspired score MIGHT have been the target for those people (i.e. the general masses) wanting to relive the movie (and especially the love theme of the movie) in their head. It's a known fact that soundtracks fom films focusing on love is more succesful than other genres (LAST OF THE MOHICANS, OUT OF AFRICA, DR. ZHIVAGO, DANCES WITH WOLVES, BRAVHEART etc.). TITANIC is no exception. And I'm guessing that there's a lot of track-skipping out there - especially over the most interesting tracks on the album, namely the action material....
posted 01-19-2000 09:35 AM PT (US)

Dan Brecher Oscar® Winner	You'll never hear me complain if a CD score release is 70 mins+ thank you very much! I hope more labels get the idea and produce longer scores, Green Mile is wonderfuly long and I am always pleased with scores that cram as much music in good quality audio onto a CD as possible. Dan (UK) [This message has been edited by Dan Brecher (edited 19 January 2000).]
posted 01-19-2000 11:47 AM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	Hey, I wasn't complaining. Not at all. The longer the better. I was just wondering how Horner is able to do it and not other composers. Matt, you can burn Braveheart. Buy a 80min long CDR. Scott
posted 01-19-2000 01:43 PM PT (US)

Ron Pulliam Oscar® Winner	Who is this James Horner fellow you are all talking about????
posted 01-19-2000 04:02 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	James Horner scored a couple of popular movies in the 1980s and 1990s, including HUMANOIDS FROM THE DEEP. It is widely theorized that his brilliant score for HUMANOIDS FROM THE DEEP won him the assignment for another ocean-bound adventure entitled TITANIC. I am not myself sure what TITANIC is about. It might well be a sequel to HUMANOIDS (in this case, the humanoids have grown gigantic, or, per the title, "TITANIC.") Happy hunting!
posted 01-19-2000 06:03 PM PT (US)

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