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      Alien Resurrection: Theme by... Jerry Goldsmith??

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    Topic:   Alien Resurrection: Theme by... Jerry Goldsmith??

     Kosh
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    Hello there,

    Since I got the entire ALIEN LEGACY movie pack this Christmas, I gave them a much-needed viewing (for the second time, since I had already seen them) the week after. When watching the Alien: Resurrection End Credits (yes, I do watch those, but mainly for the music , I realized something I hadn't seen before:

    One of the credits says THEME BY JERRY GOLDSMITH.

    I was astonished by this, as I have the Alien: Resurrection score and nowhere on it is it written that Goldsmith created the brilliant theme Frizzell uses for Ripley. Then I asked myself if it could be a really good variation on the original ALIEN theme by Goldsmith, but my slightly-untrained ear couldn't make a match with these two.

    Anyone has info on this mystery credit? Did Goldsmith really create the theme Frizzell uses?

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    posted 01-12-2000 11:28 AM PT (US)     

     Jeron
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    No, Goldsmith did not write the theme Frizzell used. Frizzell did use one of Goldsmith's themes in his composition... if I recall correctly, he used the "Hyper Sleep" motif in a very short cue during the movie.

    I have the entire Resurrection score and remember hearing this... if your interested, I can toss it to ya via e-mail. It was neat hearing some of Goldsmith's work being used by Frizzell. What a tribute to the maestro!

    Of course, everyone knows how I am about Goldsmith...

    Jeron

    [This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 12 January 2000).]

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    posted 01-12-2000 11:44 AM PT (US)     

     Dan Brecher
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    I think there are VERY subtle hints of it near the start, unsure.

    Dan (UK)

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    posted 01-12-2000 11:45 AM PT (US)     

     Andre Lux
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    I remember they used Goldsmith great music for "Alien" during a scene on the begining of "Ressurection" when Ripley is showed inside that water tube.
    The same thing happens on "Aliens" also at the end.

    It's easy to notice, since the score became so great sudenly.

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    posted 01-12-2000 01:24 PM PT (US)     

     robin4
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    Actually when I listened closely I thought I heard some of the theme in Ripley's Theme.

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    posted 01-12-2000 03:00 PM PT (US)     

     Pete M
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    There was another bit when they used the Goldsmith towards the end, when Ripley gets in the Betty (the lame "I thought you were dead" crack bit). At least, I'm pretty sure there's some in that bit. I have seen it quite a few times, despite the fact that it sucks.

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    posted 01-13-2000 06:58 AM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    The Goldsmith bit is credited in the end titles of ALIEN RESURRECTION; they refer to it as "Ripley's Theme," although properly speaking it's not a theme, just a motif; and as someone pointed out above, it's really the "hypersleep" motif, never associated by Goldsmith with Ripley herself.

    Horner also quoted it, on trumpets, a few times throughout ALIENS, but that time without credit. (One cue lifted wholesale from Goldsmith's ALIEN was also used in ALIENS, also without credit.)

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    posted 01-17-2000 09:39 PM PT (US)     

     Pete M
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    There was actually two cues from Alien used towards the end of Aliens, but edited together, they sound as if they were one. There was the Face Hugger cue, & I think the other one was Breakaway (although it may have been The Recovery, it's a while since I saw it).

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    posted 01-18-2000 04:31 AM PT (US)     

     James
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    I was listening to AR yesterday and I noticed that towards the end of the track "They Swim..." Frizzel transposed the very beginning of Alien into the action cue.

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    posted 01-18-2000 01:50 PM PT (US)     

     Andre Lux
    unregistered  

    Anyone else noticed that Frizell's score to "Ressurection" is nothing more than a mixed bag of all the previous Alien scores?

    We have the soprano voice ala Goldenthal, the Goldsmithian cold orchestral mood and the Honerism with the clash-bang action cues...

    [This message has been edited by Andre Lux (edited 18 January 2000).]

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    posted 01-18-2000 02:41 PM PT (US)     

     Thor
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    Actually, André, the soprano voice (as heard in the Händel piece I don't remember the name of right now), is not Goldenthal's and is not featured in the movie. According to the liner notes, it was simply included to provide some ease among the very intense score cues.

    I think Frizzell's score is vastly underrated. It's a great effort, better than the actual film. It's not a bad film, though, but Jeunet was the wrong choice as director - I don't think his dark-humoured with (featured so beautifully in CITY OF THE LOST CHILDREN) was appropriate for the ALIEN universe. It should be dealt with more seriously.

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    posted 01-19-2000 10:12 AM PT (US)     

     Andre Lux
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    I don't think it's overrated at all. On the contrary. Both movie and score are mediocres. The score being a mixed bag of all other Alien's scores (except for the Handel piece, as my old friend Thor well said) and the movie is laughable from the begining to the end (most at the end I admit).
    Even "Alien 3" wasn't that bad - and talking about a bad movie...

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    posted 01-19-2000 01:09 PM PT (US)     

     Jeron
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    Excuse me, the soprano peice is featured in the movie. Refer to the scene (if I recall correctly) where Gen. Perez was meeting w/ one of the crew members (dropped the cube into the glass, laser hit the cube, transformed it into liquid)...... that was playing during that scene, very softly in the background.

    Jeron

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    posted 01-19-2000 01:21 PM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    This'll sound odd coming from me, but over time, I've grown more interested in ALIEN RESURRECTION, both film and score. The movie takes some terrible wrong turns, but there's the ghost of something very interesting in there. Alas, just a ghost -- but on reflection, it's more interesting than I thought it was at first.

    As for the score -- it's growing on me, but perhaps much like a fungus does. I still wouldn't buy the album. At least not for more than five bucks. And even then ...

    A friend and I agree that RESURRECTION might be best evaluated as if it WEREN'T part of the original ALIEN series -- taken on its own merits, it's kind of interesting. But it does represent a horrible betrayal of the phenomenal conclusion of ALIEN 3 (I still insist that one's a masterpiece, film and score both.)

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    posted 01-19-2000 06:00 PM PT (US)     

     Andre Lux
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    I can't agree that "Alien 3" is masterpiece since it has such a poor plot (where all the interesting characters are killed in the firt 15 minutes of the movie - Hicks, the Doctor, the prision director) and ridiculous dialogues.
    Ok, it's has some nice visuals and desings, a great score from Goldenthal (almost as good as Goldsmith's) but that's all.

    Too bad, since the first "Alien" deserved better sequels than these...

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    posted 01-19-2000 06:20 PM PT (US)     

     Wedge
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    I'm with you, H Rocco! "Alien 3" is a masterpiece in my eyes. It has flaws, to be sure, but in my eyes it has MERITS! The theme of salvation always cuts right to my core. Perhaps my fondness for this film stems from the fact that Alien 3 was the first film in the series I saw.

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    posted 01-19-2000 06:34 PM PT (US)     

     Andre Lux
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    Yeah, Wedge... that's probably the reason.

    Believe me, if you had seem "Alien" when you had 9 years old (like myself) you would probably laugh at all this next ones... like I do.

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    posted 01-19-2000 06:40 PM PT (US)     

     Pete M
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    I really love Alien3 too. I wouldn't say it's a masterpiece, but it is certainly a fascinating extension of the series. I love the whole aids-metaphor, the Ripley as Christ, Alien as Devil stuff too. I find it really moving. Okay, it's flawed, & not scary, but it's far better than Resurrection (not actually a bad film, but would have been so much better if id didn't have ot put up with being compared to the rest of the series. As a fun, sci-fi thrill ride, it's the business, as an Alien film, it's appalling).

    np Mimic

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    posted 01-20-2000 04:50 AM PT (US)     

     Thor
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    That's just what I'm saying, Pete - this is not really an ALIEN film.

    Let me add that I too love ALIEN3. The religios undertones are awesome, and the dark-brownish visual style combined with Goldenthal's magnum opus make for a fantastic film voyage. Not as good as the first two, though (of which words cannot suffice).

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    posted 01-20-2000 08:43 AM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    One reason for ALIEN 3's poor reputation is the way it got mutilated before release. Enough of what David Fincher intended shines through to impress -- impress MASSIVELY in my case -- but the original script was WAY more detailed, and a vital subplot with Paul McGann's character Golic was scissored out entirely. I thought Fincher and editor Terry Rawlings (who also cut the first ALIEN) did a phenomenal job of making the second act LESS muddy than it could have been.

    Ironically, the finished version comes very close to what original director Vincent Ward (who gets story credit) had in mind before he got sacked (he never shot any footage) -- including the planet of religious criminals and the final fate of Ripley.

    Alan Dean Foster's novelization of ALIEN 3 preserves much of what was lost from the final film.

    I'm surprised there's never been an ALIEN 3 collector's edition, with the proper scenes and sequences restored. As Fincher's star rises, though, I imagine it'll come about. (I like it that Sigourney Weaver still sticks up for the film, despite its relative unpopularity.)

    By the way, Elliot Goldenthal was probably brought onto the film by executive producer Tim Zinnemann, who was briefly ALIEN 3's main line producer. He got canned and the "executive" credit represents kind of a buy-out. Goldenthal also scored PET SEMATARY for Zinnemann, that's why I figure he was referred. I groaned when I heard the news, since I hadn't liked anything Goldenthal had done before. Surprise surprise, eh?

    Who was David Fincher's original choice? The guy he worked with on that Madonna video Fincher directed -- Patrick Leonard, a sometimes songwriter ("Live To Tell") and producer for Madonna. I must say that my groan on hearing that Goldenthal was doing it wasn't NEARLY as loud as the noise I made when I heard ALIEN 3 was to be scored by Patrick Leonard ... ! Well, someone talked Fincher out of it, and it all worked out just fine, didn't it.

    I believe Goldenthal conferred with Fincher as to their approach for something like a YEAR before recording. All composers should have such luxury, eh? I know, it's impractical, but still.

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    posted 01-20-2000 01:02 PM PT (US)     

     Thor
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    Hey, I believe Mark Isham was considered for the job too...

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    posted 01-21-2000 10:28 AM PT (US)     

     Andre Lux
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    Hmmmmm... I would love to see a Director's Cut of "Alien 3".

    Maybe the movie could get better and correct all that senseless laughable dialogues (or should I say preaching?), which conducted the movie to a mere "who's the next bald-head mute to be killed?" race after the first half hour of movie...

    I'm glad that Fincher got some better material to work on since his job was among the only good things of that movie.

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    posted 01-21-2000 11:09 AM PT (US)     

     Swashbuckler
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    I recently re-watched all of the "Alien" films in sequence (actually, I hadn't seen the fourth in a while).

    I have to say this about the third film...

    It's actually a very good film.

    It's also one of the worst SEQUELS ever made.

    The opening of the film negates everything that "Aliens" finishes with, killing off Newt, Hicks and Bishop immediately. It is then followed by one of the darkest films ever, which only aggravates the wound created by the opening sequence (although I have to say that Terry Rawling's montage for it is very well done).

    However, the third film has several very interesting elements, including Alex Thompson's amazing cinematography, H.R. Giger's "dog" version of the alien*, Sigourney Weaver and Charles Dance's performance, a fantastic chase sequence for a finale (I don't agree with Andre on that scene) and Elliot Goldenthal's fantastic score.

    It is not a perfect film, and I personally relegate it to a "alternate universe" story (after all, would Ripley be so stupid as to go into hypersleep without SCOURING the Sulaco for any signs of alien-ness?), but find it to be in all ways a much superior film to the overpumped "Alien: Resurrection." I have to agree with Thor that Jeunet's sense of humor (however dark) was very out of place in the grim "Alien" universe.

    John Frizzell's score never really grew on me, although I like aspects of Ripley's theme and the electronics. Like the film, it was over the top and didn't really have much to say.

    Since it was brought up, I think it important to mention that the story for "Alien3" was changed drastically throughout all phases of pre-production. The original story had the prison setting, but it was on a space station, and Hicks and Bishop were supposed to go through the whole rigamarole. The prospective "Alien 4" would then have had him rejoining Ripley and Newt to protect Earth or something. Many aspects of this version of the story would have made for a better follow-up to "Aliens."

    There was a really interesting article in a magazine about the permutations the story went through before it was finalized in the version that was shot (which is not entirely the version that ended up on the screen). Unfortunately, I read it some years ago, and can't remember the magazine or issue.

    * Except the optical superimpositions that don't look very convincing... and the alien's head cracking apart at the end looked like it was animated by Hanna Barbera.

    NP 1 - "Total Recall" by Jerry Goldsmith - 4/5
    NP 2 - "Once Upon A Time in the West" by Ennio Morricone - 5/5

    [This message has been edited by Swashbuckler (edited 22 January 2000).]

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    posted 01-22-2000 11:55 AM PT (US)     
     

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