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      Best filmmaker (Page 2)

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    This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2
    Author
    Topic:   Best filmmaker

     Ron Pulliam
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    Oh, my God!

    I forgot Woody Allen!

    He's better than most directors working today!!!

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    posted 01-31-2000 04:34 PM PT (US)     

     Matt
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    Ahh, Ron...you automatically assume that older is better and that if its new it cannot be good. Are you a republican?
    You named some good ones, and i wont dispute them, but ignoring people from the last 20 years is just as stupid as ignoring people from before that. You'll notice I have people from several different eras?
    And Woody Allen kicks ass(tho i like his older, funny films...) so thanks for reminding me.

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    posted 01-31-2000 07:00 PM PT (US)     

     otten
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    It's very interesting to me how different people have different views on the same things. I think it's great. I loved the chase in The Rock. I even enjoyed Armageddon. It wasn't the smartest movie in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but just like I enjoy watching thought provoking movies, I also enjoy movies where I can turn my brain off for two hours. As for Michael Bay, I love his style. I love the fast editing, slow motion, camera never still shots. I think it is very unique, and that's what I like best. When I see a movie or commercial or music video, I can tell if Bay directed it. I don't know. Some people don't like that style. That's perfectly fine with me. One thing I know, the world has room for everyone. Good thing too, being soundtrack lovers as we all are.

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    posted 01-31-2000 08:06 PM PT (US)     

     otten
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    It's very interesting to me how different people have different views on the same things. I think it's great. I loved the chase in The Rock. I even enjoyed Armageddon. It wasn't the smartest movie in the world by any stretch of the imagination, but just like I enjoy watching thought provoking movies, I also enjoy movies where I can turn my brain off for two hours. As for Michael Bay, I love his style. I love the fast editing, slow motion, camera never still shots. I think it is very unique, and that's what I like best. When I see a movie or commercial or music video, I can tell if Bay directed it. I don't know. Some people don't like that style. That's perfectly fine with me. One thing I know, the world has room for everyone. Good thing too, being soundtrack lovers as we all are.

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    posted 01-31-2000 08:07 PM PT (US)     

     kyle42
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    About Bay's style... I find it incredibly annoying (IMHO). Look at Hitchcock's films (my favorite director), he knows just the right time to move the camera and when it should stand still. Bay's style, on the other hand, barely ever stops. This is not to keep interest, rather that he cannot create a character worth showing on the screen for more than a millisecond at a time!
    I just finished seeing a foreign film called "Raised the Red Latern" which barely had any moving camera work yet some of the most beautiful photography I have ever seen. Or Magnolia, a brilliant film with perfect camera work. The camera moves at times of frenzy (when Stanely is running) and stands still at times when we should be focusing on the character (the shot of Cruise holding his emotions back).
    NP- Being John Malkovich

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    posted 01-31-2000 10:51 PM PT (US)     

     Pete M
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    Gotta go with Segei Eisenstein. Battleship Potemkin. Wow! The Battle on the Ice in Alexander Nevsky! Amazing! Oh yes.


    np Hard Rain

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    posted 02-01-2000 06:51 AM PT (US)     

     Ron Pulliam
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    Matt insultingly insinuated I was declaring older directors better just because they were older.

    No, Matt, I'm not a Republican.

    No, I don't believe everything older is better.

    I do believe -- in fact, strongly feel -- that too many of the suggestions on this thread are from people who have never watched a black-and-white film; who have never considered anything older than they are to be worth anything.

    The fact is, movies from the 30s, 40s and 50s stand up much better as brilliantly crafted films with story flow, great editing and writing than the overwhelming percentage of the dreck Hollywood churns out on an annual basis.

    From a technical standpoint, of course, there's no comparison. But I'll tell you -- I watched a terrible movie over the weekend -- it was "Armageddon". It was terrible for many reasons, including its acting, its dialogue and its editing.

    Sure, the special effects were terrific, until each effect had to top the last one and they just kept coming and coming and coming. I can only suspend my disbelief so long....and then contempt sets in. Armageddon was an overproduced special effects exhibition without any attempt to create drama outside of CGI effects.

    Trevor Rabin's score was sooooo Horneresque -- lots of "Titanic"-sounding stuff in it...and I'm damned if I can figure out who or what in the film was Irish.

    Many on this list may get off on MTV-styled movies, especially the effects-laden ones, but they're not telling stories and they're not going to last.

    In the annals of Hollywood, Matt, the older directors I named ARE better than 99.9% of directors working today. They invented movies.

    There are, perhaps, directors out there experimenting to find new ways to be cinematically creative. Perhaps a few of them will truly make his or her mark with a breakthrough....but I don't think movies have been re-recreated by any of them yet.

    Outside of Spielberg, that is. But, of course, he's enamored of the older directors, too. I guess his obeisance counts as little to you as mine does.

    Ron

    Ron

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    posted 02-01-2000 08:33 AM PT (US)     

     Leopoldskron
    unregistered  

    By Best I suppose you mean Favorite. Here are the ones that made my favorite films -

    Wise
    Hitchcock
    Wyler
    DePalma
    Kurosawa
    Ford
    Cameron

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    posted 02-01-2000 09:04 AM PT (US)     

     JohnT
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    It's a tie between John Ford and Howard Hawks.But then there is Hitchcock, and what about Sam Peckinpah? Then over to Jean Renoir, Francois Truffaut, Kurosawa, Bergman - just for starters.
    As a secondary, what would Ford or Renoir have made of Angela's Ashes? (I still enjoyed the film though - and the music!!!)

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    posted 02-01-2000 10:39 AM PT (US)     

     Matt
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    Ron: thank you for completely missing the fu*king point of my post. Did i once say that older directors sucked? did i once say that Armageddon was a good movie? My point was that you cannot ignore new directors and concentrate on old, or vice versa. Many people have mentioned both new and old directors, and YOU are the one who has been insulting, to them.
    Want to know why you remember films from the 40s, 50s, etc? because they have stood the test of time. Keep in mind however that a majority of films coming out then were crap too. This has not changed. The directors you mentioned crafted many fine films that have lasted. But what about the ones they did you never heard of because they didnt last? Film was new then, so it was up to them to develop it. Nowadays there isnt much new things to do, so not a lot of new and interesting new things can be done. But with the addition of special effects the art of filmmaking can continue to evolve(Wachowskis rule!). BTW, Calling a director groundbreaking or influential is not the same as calling him(or her) great. You can break new ground in filmmaking without making a great film. Keep that distinction in mind, for i grade soley on how well a director makes a movie, not on how much they have influenced the industry(that is a seperate list).
    Spielberg has shown his respect for many newer directors. You have not, so fu*k you for comparing yourself to him.
    And there was no insult in my post, if you want insulting i can give you insulting. Get on my bad side Ron and you'll wish you had never heard of film music. Stay on my good side and we can have some great discussions. I leave the choice up to you.

    [This message has been edited by Matt (edited 01 February 2000).]

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    posted 02-01-2000 04:29 PM PT (US)     

     Ron Pulliam
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    Matt:

    Know to whom you are speaking and ensure you know exactly what you're talking about.

    I stated my opinion. You don't like it, fine. It's just my opinion.

    I didn't get profane and I didn't threaten anything.

    However, I don't know who the hell you are nor do I know who the hell you think you are.

    But if you ever threaten me again, I shall move heaven and earth to find you.

    That's a ****ing promise!

    Ron


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    posted 02-01-2000 04:46 PM PT (US)     

     Matt
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    *Laughing histerically* man, im really starting to like this guy! That was GREAT! do something else!

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    posted 02-01-2000 07:28 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Matt-

    [This message has been edited by Lou Goldberg (edited 13 June 2000).]

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    posted 02-01-2000 10:48 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Matt-

    [This message has been edited by Lou Goldberg (edited 13 June 2000).]

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    posted 02-01-2000 11:11 PM PT (US)     

     Richard
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    In no particular order...

    Alfred Hitchcock
    John Frankenheimer
    Tim Burton
    Ivan Reitman
    James Cameron
    Steven Speilberg
    Terrance Mallick
    Martin Scorcese
    Quentin Tarintino
    Ron Howard

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    posted 02-01-2000 11:25 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Matt---I've been taking heat for years over loving Godard so it's nothing new to me. I realize Godard can't tell a story and that he comes off as a pretentious amateur, but his films give me other things, a look at the beauty and absurdity of the modern world and some of my favorite moments in all movies: everything Jean Seberg does in Breathless but most of all holding up those 7 fingers or saluting herself in the mirror. In Le Petit Soldat, one friend bets another that he'll fall for Anna Karina when he sees her for the first time--they meet, she tosses her hair, the guy pays up. Karina again bowing to the audience in Une Femme est une Femme; riding the subway talking about the lives of people she passes or dancing and thinking while she dances in Band of Outsiders; trying to say I love you at the end of Alphaville. Just about every moment of Pierrot Le Fou. The traffic jam in Weekend. Jean-Pierre Leaud "training" Juliet Berto to make new sounds in Le Gai Savoir. I don't know, maybe I'm deluding myself, but I put him on my list for reasons I understand.

    I like Jaws and Schindler's List very much. I have certain problems with SL, but they are far outweighed by its achievements. Other Spielberg films just seem too sugary or heavy-handed to me.

    Rocco--I love Murnau. Sunrise is about doing the right thing and finding great things where you didn't think they were. Tabu, City Girl, and The Last Laugh are equally wonderful. I didn't put him in my top ten, but I'm still a young guy......

    Thor--I can't consider the Marx Bros. directors although they and no director is responsible for what their comedy is. I love Chaplin, Keaton, Lloyd, Tati, Laurel & Hardy, Woody Allen, Monty Python--but the Marx Brothers tower over them all. Every top ten list should include Duck Soup IMHO.

    Ron--Cukor, Minnelli, DeMille, and especially Billy Wilder, all great choices. And you included Hawks too!

    I agree with you--I wish we could sit some of these kids down and show them that Cinema doesn't begin 15 years ago.

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    posted 02-02-2000 02:34 AM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Matt

    [This message has been edited by Lou Goldberg (edited 13 June 2000).]

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    posted 02-02-2000 02:37 AM PT (US)     

     SFT
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    I don´t care what anybody says (including you Matt ) There are simply NO directors out there today, who can even be compared to Hitchcock, Welles and Kubrick...sorry.

    But please remember: IT IS JUST MY OPINION!!!

    SFT

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    posted 02-02-2000 03:45 AM PT (US)     

     Alwin
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    Actually, some of the people who've been listing older directors have a point. Us younger folks have not really experienced the so-called "timeless classics".

    Personally, I don't think I'll ever get around to watching them. My father has all the war classics, but I just can't bring my self to watch them. I'd rather watch Saving Private Ryan or The Thin Red Line.

    NP: Armageddon

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    posted 02-02-2000 07:53 AM PT (US)     

     Ron Pulliam
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    Yesterday....a long, ugly day at work.

    By the time I read Matt's post, my head was pounding. To say I reacted exactly the opposite way than I should have would be understatement.

    It is I who should have been laughing wildly.

    Matt, the post you were alluding to was not meant to be a personal response to your previous post. I know I started my post by directly addressing your statements about my thinking older things were better and declaring myself NOT a Republican.

    Beyond that, I was expounding upon modern technical capabilities and then ranting over a recent example -- "Armageddon." Nowhere did I say I thought you had brought it up or expressed any sort of opinion on it.

    As for your final statement, I don't want to be on anyone's bad side. The laughing wildly part would be in reaction to anyone asserting he has the power to spoil my passion for film music. I would not, however, react kindly if anyone tried.

    For the gentleman who says I chewed him out over things he said about Marco Polo:

    All I asked was that you tell me you didn't have a clue what Marco Polo was all about. You cited that label and Varese as being behind commercial releases of film scores that were only guaranteed sellers.

    True enough for Varese, but Marco Polo is so totally NOT guilty of that -- I had to stick up for them.

    I'll try to play more nicely, guys. Promise.

    Ron

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    posted 02-02-2000 08:10 AM PT (US)     

     Matt
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    Thats ok Ron, we've all had long/bad days. Im about to have 2(2 midterms in the next 2 days...yuck) so I know how you feel.

    The republican crack wasnt a personal attack, it was just me making fun of republicans.

    No big deal...I got a good laugh at the end there, and you got to blow off some steam. Do try to read my posts more carefully in the future tho, as my first was never an attack on your opinion, nor was it an insult. It was merely a comment on concentrating solely on either newer or older directors. After that things got heated...

    Anyway, I hope today is better than yesterday for you.

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    posted 02-02-2000 01:15 PM PT (US)     

     Scott
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    Matt,

    remember, Repulicans are people too.


    Scott

    At least they inhale when they try it.

    NP:Bicentenial Man (****/*****) could change the more i listen to it

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    posted 02-02-2000 01:50 PM PT (US)     

     Mark Hatfield
     Oscar® Winner
     

    WOW!
    My DSL line goes down for a couple of days, and look what's happened.....
    I feel sort of responsible for the melee. My comments about Bay seem to have been the launching point for some sort of "old"/"new" debate. If feelings were hurt, then my apologies.
    For the record, Ron, I think that you're on the money. It seems to me that a list of great directors should presume some great works by same.....entertaining or no, THE ROCK is not likely to be viewed as such in 20 years' time. We'll see.

    Matt --
    I absolutely ADORE "popcorn" movies. My very favorite film of all time, without question, is RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK. Folks will doubtlessly weigh in about the relative merits of that flick; it seems inarguable to me, however, that the creators of that film simply wanted to make a great entertainment - NOT a great "statement". It was first and foremost a "crowd-pleaser", meant to cause fond memories of the days of serials & get the audience to stand up and cheer. Cool.
    When I say I have a problem with Bay, it stems from this: the camera seldom STOPS moving. That's it.
    All of the rapid-fire editing, hand-held camera work, and odd camera angles in the world didn't help me to understand what I was seeing in that chase through San Francisco that I mentioned. Oh, I "got it" that this was a desparate and destructive chase......I just didn't always understand where everyone was (in the film). Take a look at the truck chase sequence in RAIDERS. This is an exciting (and justly famous) sequence from the movie, and another desparate and destructive chase. The camera work and shot selection help not only to tell the tale, they inform us as to the relative location, spacing, and point of view of all of the participants. When an object or person leaves the screen, we have a sense as to where it or they will reappear....a kind of spatial sense that, to me, is missing from the staccato shot/edit style favored nowadays by directors like Bay. A more recent example would be THE MASK OF ZORRO. That widely reviled movie had the same choreographed, planned sense of spatial reality to it. When a baddie exits the screen we have a pretty good idea of the direction from which he'll return. For ME, anyway, this helps to suspend disbelief -- which is what we are all doing when we purchase tickets, right?
    It's not that kinetic energy with the camera is not a good thing. Sam Raimi is terrific with this, and to me still does nothing with the camera to remove me from the context or reality of the story. That's just my opinion. I own THE ROCK on DVD (not least for the performances of Cage, Harris & Connery) and enjoy it. But owning it, slowing it down, and trying HARD to digest it hasn't made me any more a fan of the style. I just think that light/movement/energy that does not serve the story or further the illusion is kinda empty. IMHO.
    No vilification, please. There's enough of that at another board.

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    posted 02-02-2000 05:21 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    MATT

    [This message has been edited by Lou Goldberg (edited 13 June 2000).]

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    posted 02-02-2000 10:21 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Matt

    [This message has been edited by Lou Goldberg (edited 13 June 2000).]

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    posted 02-02-2000 10:29 PM PT (US)     
     

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