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Topic: Star Wars

Scott

Oscar® Winner

As we approach the weekend,another subject to sink our teeth in.
This is actually twofold:
1.Which Star Wars score is your favorite?
2.Which Star Wars score do you think to be artistically the best one.To point two, here is my humble opinion (point one I will get to at another time).
1. The Phantom Menace
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. Star Wars-A New Hope
4. Return Of The JediScott
posted 10-01-1999 07:41 AM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

I never quite understand why "Return of the Jedi" gets such a bad rap, whether as a movie, or a score. Though I lived for years with the original, mislabled Polydor issue, the Special Edition 2-CD set even increased my (already strong) appreciation for this darkly complex score.Though it seems to be a favorite fall-back thread to "list, in order, your favorite ~ ", I will not contribute.
I think the Star Wars saga strongest as a whole, a cycle.
It would be like trying to choose your favorite chapter out of your favorite book, and I will not do that. I cannot calibrate one by the strengths and weakness of the others, without weakening the whole, and I enjoy the whole too much.
posted 10-01-1999 09:42 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Lancelot,Lancelot,Lancelot.
I LOVE Return of the Jedi, both the movie and the score. Yet, if I compare all the scores to each other I think the most complicated one is almost a tie between Menace and Empire.Jedi reminds of bubble gum and soda, which I have no problem with. It's probably because of the cute Ewoks.
About you not participating in this...I have already hired a hitman on you.
So there, you hurt my feelings...you meany you...
Scott
posted 10-01-1999 11:34 AM PT (US) 
SEBULBA

Oscar® Winner

I would probably have to go with...Empire Strikes Back
Phantom Menace
Star Wars
Return of the JediAlthough Phantom and Star Wars are so close for me. Star Wars just holds such a spot in my heart. It's what got me started 20 years ago.
posted 10-01-1999 11:42 AM PT (US) 
robin4

Oscar® Winner

Boy what a tough one. I'll go with:Return of the Jedi
Empire Strikes Back
Phantom Menace
A New HopeThese are my favorites, and A New Hope is barely last simply because of its lack of a lot of action (artistically it is probably the best). Phantom is low because it doesn't sound as Star Wars as the others.
posted 10-01-1999 03:09 PM PT (US) 
SFT

Oscar® Winner

Here are my choices:Starwars - A New Hope
Return of the Jedi
The Empire Strikes Back
The Phantom MenaceSFT
NP: Idependence Day Expanded Score, David Arnold
posted 10-02-1999 01:14 AM PT (US) 
Dan Brecher

Oscar® Winner

Arghhhh, this is indeed a tough one. Let's think now...Ok:1) Empire Strikes Back
2) A New Hope/Phantom Menace/Jedi (tie....sorry)Can't think of another way to rate em. hehe Empire remains my fave, and the others I rate equally.
Dan (UK)
NP: The Lion King (*****/*****)
posted 10-02-1999 05:52 AM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

I would go with the following:1. Empire Strikes Back
2. New Hope
3. Phantom Menace
4. Return of the JediTo answer the question that was posed earlier regarding Return, I don't really have a problem with the score but the movie was very disappointing to others and me. Why? (WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW FOR RETURN OF THE JEDI AND EMPIRE STRIKES BACK)
Well, I think it depends on when you saw it. If, like me, you waited for 3 years after Empire, enduring the cliff hanging suspense, talking with all your buddies about “the Other” all that stuff and what you got was Return, then you were probably disappointed. I think that if you saw all three together then you might like it.
Why did I not like it?
First, Han's character that had been so cleverly and clearly developed in Empire, was turned into an idiot in Return. Also he almost had no role in the film.Second, Luke completely resolves his inner conflicts off screen and apparently learns all his Jedi stuff by himself.
Third, all of the darkness and complexity that was shown in Empire was replaced by jumping dancing Teddy Bears.
Fourth, The scene that might have been cool, the Millennium Falcon being destroyed with Lando on board, was scrapped. There is a price to pay for freedom, the rebels got off cheap. (Please, don't tell me that Anakin's death was the price. He had to die to balance the Force and end the Sith Menace. That ended the only way it could have.)
Fifth, The climax was a remake of the first movie’s climax. (A fault that Phantom Menace shared, to a lesser extent)
Sixth, The cute muppet like characters that seemed inserted into the film merely to milk the merchandising cow. Ugh! That horrific blue keyboardist on Jabba’s barge!
Seventh, Too many cute droid scenes!
Eighth, It signaled George Lucas’ surrender to the dark side. He decided that why bother making a film for adults and kids when if you made it a picture for kids you could pump the merchandising out. I expected Phantom Menace to be kid film so it didn’t bother me. After Empire, I expected a film for adults.
Well, there are probably other reasons, but that’s all I can think of now.
posted 10-02-1999 10:00 AM PT (US) 
robin4

Oscar® Winner

I know what you're saying about Ewoks, I don't like them much either. They were actually supposed to go to Wookieland but they decided it could get out of hand and away from kids, hence they went the total opposite way. Despite this, I still love the movie. Probably my fav.
posted 10-02-1999 01:21 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Lancelot,
a little follow up to your post.
I understand what you mean, about not wanting to decide on a favorite and I certainly respect it. Yet, almost everyone has a favorite about any subject. An example:
I don't know how old you are but let's assume, for arguments sake, you are 20. Your life is a journey of unique porportions. Although all the years add up to your unique life, there are certain times that you probably remember the most. Certain days you hated, certain regrets, certain events that you would choose as some of the best times in you 20 years. Do these moments discount the rest of your life. Of course not, they are just moments that stand out, that you like, or hate, or whatever the most.
This is all I am trying to find out. By asking these questions, I get you guy's input.Often I see things in a new light because of your comments.
That's all.
I hope I made a little sense here.
Scott
posted 10-02-1999 10:29 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

As promised,
on my original post I gave my list of the scores based on technical aspects.
Now to my favorite ones (based on like)1.Star Wars-A new hope
2.The Phatom Menace
3.The Empire strikes back
4.The Return of The Jedi.
My reasons:
Star Wars is my favorite because it is the most melodic of all the scores. It is the score which led me to collect soundtracks and caused me to appreciate and like classical music. With this score a new world came itno my life. I was 16 when I received the score, two years before The Return of the Jedi.
I find the phantom menace to be technically superior, because of the complex orchestration and thematic uses although the score as a whole is not really melodic.Phatom is my second favorite score because I find the duel of the fates to be so powerful and Anakins theme so masterful how it hints to the future with the last few notes of the Imperial March woven in. I just love listening to this score.
The Empire is second technically speaking, I find it in this regard superior to the other two.The Empire is my third favorite. It too is very melodic and has some great new themes. It is technically superior to Star Wars which is why Star Wars is number three in the technical catogory.
The last on my list, in both cases (how peculiar), is the Return. Now I loved the movie and didn't mind the Ewoks that much either. However, although the score is very melodic and with the Emporeres theme tremendously powerful, there is a certain popconish sound about it I can't explain.Technically it is the least accomplished.
Again, I'm not saying any of these suck, because they all are great masterpieces, but as I have tried to explain to Lancelot, they are just favorites.
Whew, that was long
.Scott
posted 10-02-1999 10:42 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

Dear Scott--Of course I have good memories and moments--and bad ones, naturally, but the ultimate result is: i'm me. I see your point, but I'm being rather cynical, as well--Not in any bad way, and not necessarily directed at my colleages on the bulletin board, but I'm tired of defending my position on the whole thing. I feel the overwhelming need to comment on it, wherever discussed, because I love it so much, but I hate when it turns into either:
A) an "i love this/this sucks" debate, where rabid fans pick apart the story like a chinese buffet, and then attempt to stitch it back together like a bad patchwork quilt.
or B) an "Oh--*you* like Star Wars, well come, let us berate you for enjoying such childish things"....I've spent too much energy on those pointless discusssions, where I've learned that the best defense is not to fight. I've come to the inevitably true conclusion that folks are going to like what they like and dislike what they don't--and my arguments make little difference. I would prefer to remain the loyal film-fan that I am, without appearing like the raving, frothing-at-the-mouth star wars junkie that resides in a corner of my mind.
So--my favorite discussions of Star Wars are the ones that deal with the themes and symbolism and mythology of it all, and those involving the music of Star Wars as well, and not the kind of that premise themselves, "hmm, i'd better have a clear cut thought of what I like and what I don't like, and be able to list them."
Incidentally, A friend of mine told me yesterday that it seemed, on the average, the favorite amongst guys is "Empire", and the favorite amongst women is "Jedi"....which I had to laugh at, because it seems true.
I hope this has all been conveyed with the most un-hostile of intentions behind it. Thank you--
posted 10-03-1999 07:27 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Lancelot,
this is difficult.
I can't disagree,per se, what you wrote, yet I am left with an uncomfortable taste in my mouth that I cannot explain.I wanna argue some points,but I know you'd hate that.So, I leave it like this:
I enjoy the friendly discussions we have had here, I learn a lot from them. You don't.
I will try to find some topics where both you and I and of course the rest of the gang can sink our teeth into (for those who still have their real teeth, hahahahah.... stupid joke,oh well, whatever).
Scott
posted 10-03-1999 08:07 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

Scott--Again, I appreciate what you're saying. I enjoy debate, as well, and I hope that you do not infer that I don't learn anything from all of this. Please don't make assupmtions on that matter.
The discussions here have remained friendly, and I am glad that they continue to do so--I have been in some less than cordial debates, which did not end pleasantly, which is very sad, to me.
I grew up with Star Wars--(I am 24, so no old teeth jokes), and I have very complete memories and recollections of my experiences with it. For me, it is one of the greatest stories you can tell a child, and one of the greatest stories that even an adult likes to enjoy again and again. I am really overwhelmed with the multi-generational response to it--and that kids who were as old I as I was when I first saw it, are able to approach the universality of it. It's great that they "get it". That's the important thing, to me.
I try, perhaps unsucessfully, to set your mind at ease about my intentions....I am something of a "purist" when it comes to Star Wars. I suppose there are all types of fans, and maybe even a few more like me out there. I'm glad that we can all enjoy this story, and hope that we don't become so cynical about the technicalities of it all.
Thanks--
posted 10-04-1999 08:42 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Lancelot,
assumptions are the mother of all screwups...(thought I quote that one for ya
).
I did not assume that you don't learn anything from the posts on this site. On the contrary.
I share your nostalgia towards Star Wars, hell, I was one of the crazy ones who stood in line and saw Phantom on the first showing. I LOVE THE STAR WARS SAGA.
Being a purist is a good thing (Matt, your listening
).May the Force be with you,
always...
Darth Scottposted 10-04-1999 09:34 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Final tally,
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. The Phantom Menace
3. Star Wars-A New Hope
4. Return of the JediVery interesting indeed...
Scott
posted 10-07-1999 07:15 AM PT (US) 
Gae

Oscar® Winner

Heres my choice and its coincidently the same order as the movies themselves.
1) Star Wars (I bought this when I was 12 and it was one of the first scores to get me into orchestral music)
2) Empire (A wonderfully complex and dark score with several quotes of Vader's theme and other great themes/motifs.. Han and Leia, Boba Fett's great little 2 note motif and all that superb battle music.
3) Return of the Jedi (Favourites are the Emperor's death and Skywalker's sword fighting music in the desert)
4) Phantom Menace (Although a worthy successor to the others esp. Duel of the Fates...the music and film has yet to find its place and prove itself to me. Only time will tell. Gae
posted 10-12-1999 03:48 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
