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Author	Topic: Alien, Aliens, Alien3 or Alien Resurrection?

Jeron Oscar® Winner	AL - ?????? I'm confused... "Fear Of A Black Hat" ???? Often used word? Get back to me on this one... ~J
posted 09-28-1999 09:27 PM PT (US)

Matt Oscar® Winner	Al, Giger had nothing to do with Aliens. he was unavailable and so all new alien designs were done by Cameron and Stan Winston(the queen was entirely Cameron). Other than designing the original alien, he didnt have any participation in Aliens. HE WAS INELLIGIBLE BECAUSE HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MOVIE. I dont know where you get your info, but its wrong. Also, as i recall(though this im not sure of) he was called back for the third. Didnt know he did anything with the 4th, but oh well. Anyway...what word? Never heard of that movie, and ive heard of a lot.
posted 09-28-1999 11:10 PM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	Ts,ts...you think an issue has died...then it gets ressurected like Ripley in Alien 4.Go figure. Anyway...to J.Peter: I never mentioned Newt...never had a problem with her dying early on, heck, people die early, such is life. As far as your remaining comments, as well put as they are,(be nice Scotty),they tend to stretch reality a little too much. First, the film was artistically directed, that's true enough. Yet again I will repeat myself...Alien3 is not Schindler's List. It's a movie that is supposed to first entertain. On that point it did not entertain me very much...I'm sorry. So, who cares about the artiness. If you want to win an oscar make "Alien meets Hitler and together they try to eliminate all the ET's"L!. That may get you somewhere... Second, the dialogue in the movie sucked! Third, the special effects...sucked! Fourth, the ending...take a guess...you got it...SUCKED! Fifth,Ripleys hairdo...sucked. Sixth,her attachement to the beast inside of her...please...sucked! Seventh, this was a thrown together, underdeveloped and in the end unsupported film...because it sucked. Hell, I didn't even like the music. So, I'm with Matt, how DO you think this movie saved the franchise? Certainly "Resurrection" wan't made because of Alien3. It was made to built on the success of the first two. And, I am not like any of those wannabe burocrats in the studios who usually don't know jack. It is because of the morons that Alien3 was ever produced the way it was. By the way, all I ever wanted was some viewpoints about the scores. I never wanted this to turn into Siskel and Ebert. Then again...pretty intersting debate. I think I wanted to respond to something else...probably have to come back and edit this. Al, I agree about you Giger thing. He was one of the best things about Alien. Gotta have my breakfast now...school starts in 15 minutes. Later, Scotty [This message has been edited by Scott (edited 09-29-99).]
posted 09-29-1999 07:38 AM PT (US)

J. Peter Wolk-Laniewski Oscar® Winner	OK: Scott and Matt hate Alien3. They thoroughly loathe and villify it with a passion beyond words and there's nothing I can say to ever make them think otherwise. And Matt needs to watch his **ing language. First of all: Alright, the FX sucked, but everything else didn't. The dialogue? I thought that was pretty good, more importantly, the performances were great. The ending was the best part! It was a wonderful anti-Hollywood ending and Fincher revelled in it. The haircut may not have been sexy, but it was a great touch and really enhanced the dark atmosphere of the film. You very eloquently said that they didn't do jack ** with the loss after the funeral scene. Well, it's hard to mourn when there's a big Alien monster running around trying to eat you. And at least they addressed it instead of shaking it off in true Hollywood fashion. Now, as to the franchise-saving issue: I don't mean that 3 ensured more sequels, I meant that, now that the films are over, we can look back and say that each film was done in a totally different way without too much regard for money. Each director did their film THEIR way, not the studio's way. In Fincher's case, he did a dark, moody film that avoided the stereotypes of an action film. Judging from what Sebulba said of the original script, one could see Fincher's influence on the project. 3 might not popular, profitable, or even watchable for some people, but it was the film HE wanted to make and THAT is the element of the Alien films that 3 saved. By the way, Fear of a Black Hat was a movie about an inept rap group. I, like most of America, didn't see it. [This message has been edited by J. Peter Wolk-Laniewski (edited 09-29-99).] [This message has been edited by J. Peter Wolk-Laniewski (edited 09-29-99).]
posted 09-29-1999 05:54 PM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	Giger did contribute works to Aliens. He also did some on Alien III, although his presence isn't a strong in the film. Check out his website if you are curious. I wrote an essay on him many years ago. The uncredited contribution to Resurrection is the Alien Newborn, which resembles something often seen in his air brush works. And if you haven't seen Fear Of A Black Hat, you should. It's an absolute riot.
posted 09-29-1999 08:06 PM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	J.Peter, you got some valid points there man. I wouldn't say I hate the movie. Just didn't like it. (Yes, in my book there is a difference). Anyway,could it be? I have nothing else to say Scott
posted 09-30-1999 07:27 AM PT (US)

Matt Oscar® Winner	Ill say one thing J. Peter. I will never slam Fincher, he is a brilliant filmmaker. But Alien 3 was NOT the film he wanted to make, it was the one he was forced to make. He was brought in after 3 other possibles, and told to use the (thrown together, bad) script and that there was no time for revisions. The outright suckiness(i like that word) was not his fault. But the ending did suck. I see your point about each movie being different, but i think that saying that it saved the franchise(however you meant it) was a poor choice of words. Your final point though, is one that i can accept. And no, i will not watch my ****ing language Al, He had nothing to do with Aliens, i know this beyond a doubt. I wrote a paper on Cameron and did a lot of research into his films, including Aliens. I have many sources saying that Giger was not available to do Aliens, and so Cameron and Winston redisigned this, tweaked that, and Cameron created the queen. I dont know what he did for Alien 3 or 4, but I know that he was NOT involved in Aliens, other than creating the original alien which was, as you know, added to(I think it looks better in Aliens then Alien, but thats my opinion).
posted 09-30-1999 02:48 PM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	Matt, hearing what you have said, I am not sure what Giger did for Aliens. Did he? Didn't he? That wasn't the point I was trying to make. His presence was lacking in Alien 3. In my opinion, he played a role just as important as Sigourney Weaver (behind the scenes, of course). Having his style missing from the third film was almost like having an Alien film without Sigourney Weaver. It would be an okay film, but something would just be missing.
posted 09-30-1999 08:10 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Oscar® Winner	Al... Giger didn't work on "Aliens" at all. He worked on "Alien3," but not to the extent he was hoping for and never worked on "Alien Resurrection." Sebulba... There was a new design for the "dog" alien in "Alien3," but the aliens in "Resurrection" are pretty much what Giger designed for the first film, with the exception of the fact that now they have bifurcated legs. Matt... I have no idea how you can say "Breathless" sucked. Even if you didn't like the film, I would at least expect you to respect it, considering that it allows the audience to reconsider what they want from cinema. Furthermore, I think you reacted very violently to J Peter's statement about how "Alien3" saved the series... his statement makes sense in its own way. While I agree with you that from the money and crowd-pleasing point of view, "Aliens" was a great follow-up to "Alien," let's face it, standard Hollywood logic would usually create a sequel identical to "Aliens," and would be worth absolutely nothing. Incidentally, my "Alien" film favorites are 1. "Alien" The original and still the best. I love the coldness with which Scott unfolds the life cycle of the creature itself, and the all- around excellent performances. 2. "Aliens" (Special Edition) Pulse-pounding sequel, with great character development, but it lacks the single-minded purpose of the original. 3. "Alien3" Beautifully shot, wonderfully designed variation on the first film, but it really is a terrible sequel. 4. "Alien Resurrection" Although it's a pretty entertaining movie on it's own terms, it's kind of out-of-place in the dark Weyland-Yutani world of the rest of the films. My "Alien" score favorites are: 1. Jerry Goldsmith's "Alien" Untouchable, in the film, or on record. The DVD is a godsend. 2. Elliot Goldenthal's "Alien3" Dark and experimental, intelligently written and performed, this score is wonderfully evocative not only of the creature itself, but for the religious aspects (which fuse, in the end, with Ripley's sacrifice). 3. James Horner's "Aliens" Incredibly effective, but not very original. The undisguised thefts from Khachaturian are ridiculous (I mean, come on!), and too much of the suspense music is borrowed from Goldsmith's score from the first film. Nevertheless, it's quite a trip when you take it, with relentless action cues. 4. John Frizzell's "Alien Resurrection" Suffers from its relationship to the over- the- top film it's attached to. There's no place to catch your breath, and that's more to the detriment of the score than it's advantage. I like some of the electronic effects, I also like aspects of Ripley's theme, but overall, I couldn't get into the score.
posted 01-29-2000 08:51 AM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	What word is that?
posted 01-29-2000 10:27 AM PT (US)

SEBULBA Oscar® Winner	Swashbuckler... This is true about the Alien design. Both Alien 3 and Resurrection are based on Giger's design. About the only difference between 3 and Resurrection is the omition of the tubes on the Alien's back. They are just a little more ferocious looking than the original. The mouth design and all. And of course the color scheme is more brown and black than just pretty much solid black with silver highlights. I love 'em all though. I have kits which I have done of 1 - 3 of the different Aliens. If interested, I can email photos. They're quite good.
posted 01-31-2000 08:09 AM PT (US)

Thor Oscar® Winner	I could write a thesis about the subject, but won't. Here goes: FILMS: 1. ALIENS 2. ALIEN 3. ALIEN 3 4. ALIEN 4 SCORES: 1. ALIENS 2. ALIEN 3 3. ALIEN 4. ALIEN 4 And I think Horner's use of Khachtaturian is a stroke of genius - a tip of the hat to the ol' 2001. And it's so obvious that it's ok.
posted 01-31-2000 09:34 AM PT (US)

spango Oscar® Winner	Hey Swashbuckler, I really totally agree with your views! There´s nothing more to say.
posted 01-31-2000 12:02 PM PT (US)

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