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Let's talk about Barry... forget Goldsmith, Williams, and Elfman...
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Topic: Let's talk about Barry... forget Goldsmith, Williams, and Elfman...

Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Well, let's not literally forget them, but have a change in focus. It can sometimes be very refreshing.I know you probably never expected me to say this, but let's redirect our attention to a composer we haven't recognized in awhile. Mr. John Barry. His music is incredible, it transcends time. I just ordered two score albums online, The Beyondness of Things and Raise the Titanic. Having heard samples of these albums, I was once again pulled into the swirling mysticism Barry creates. His sound is so detectable, yet as similar as his music sounds, it's all so different.
I figured this might be a good change in topic for everyone, especially for you and me, SFT. =) Let's have some fun.
~Jeron
[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 09-24-99).]
posted 09-24-1999 12:37 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

This is probably going to get me in trouble, but I'm not too much of a fan of Barry. Now, before you hire a professional hit man, I'm not saying he isn't good; I think he is great and I own a couple of his scores, I just can't seem to connect to his very personal style. Talking about detectabel.
Truthfully now, his style is way more detectable than Elfman's.
Then again, I do not know much about him, it just seems every score has this unique style that drives me crazy half the time.
One thing I do have to say though, besides Horner, the guy creates beautiful melodies.
Anyway, Jeron perhaps you can educate me a little bit more about him and suggest some of his scores (I have only Chaplin and Dances of Wolfs. I know that's like nothing...).
posted 09-24-1999 07:01 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Hey Scott-Well, I'm definitely not a John Barry expert, but the scores I do have I'd definitely recommend. If I were you, I'd try out a James Bond score or two... for variety, maybe The Living Daylights and Octop.u.s.s.y. Those two can be found as Ryko re-releases and their sound is outstanding. Varese also features a few re-recording of Barry's work. Of those, I'd recommend checking out Out of Africa and Somewhere in Time. They are very elegant scores, and Somewhere in Time has been argued to be one of the most romantic of all time (that's not why I purchased it).
I recently purchased (as I said) his cd, The Beyondness of Things and the Silva re-recording of Raise the Titanic. Both are excellent! I'd recommend you read the review for Raise the Titanic at Filmtracks.com. Here's the link:
http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/raise_titanic.html
Sound clips from The Beyondness of Things can be found at Tower Records. Here the link for that:
http://www.towerrecords.com/product.asp?pfid=1507555#ra
I do agree, it takes a certain kind of temperment to truly enjoy his style. While I'm used to Goldsmith, Williams, Horner, Arnold, Elfman, Zimmer, etc... Barry has been around just as long as the first three (I listed) and has a very contrasting style that sometimes serves as a nice "vacation" from the others.
One thing that Barry does that might annoy some people, is his repetitiveness. While, yes, it is fairly easy to pick up, I've come to accept that in his style. I haven't heard a score yet that he's composed which didn't work incredibly well on film and extraordinary on cd. If you've got ICQ or AOL, lemme know - I'd be happy to toss you some samples.
In the meantime, lemme know what you think about the review and the samples I've provided.
~Jeron
[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 09-24-99).]
posted 09-24-1999 11:24 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Jeron,
I'll take your advice (gives me something to do over the weekend). I'll let you know on Monday.
Till then,
thanks!
Oh one more thing, are you sure you didn't buy Somwhere in Time because of its romantisism?
posted 09-24-1999 08:00 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Well... I dunno. It is a romantic score. It's also simply very enjoyable and intelligently composed. I've never seen the movie, but I hear it's a good one. The music though is very good. Out of Africa and Somewhere in Time make good companion albums... they compliment one another.~Jeron
posted 09-24-1999 09:30 PM PT (US) 
S Smith
unregistered
I've never been able to listen to/buy "Somewhere in Time" because I thought the movie was SO BAD, that I didn't even have a chance to appreciate the music and I don't want to have anything to do with anything associated with it.
posted 09-25-1999 12:30 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

S Smith, well... that kind of contradicts what I heard, so maybe I won't see the movie now. But you really are missing out on a good score. That's also another thing about John Barry. No matter how bad the movie, it seems as though he can create a good, solid score. It might not help the movie at all, but it always stands on it's own very well.~Jeron
posted 09-25-1999 12:34 AM PT (US) 
Matthew

Oscar® Winner

I'm slowly beginning to enjoy Barry's style more and more.A few months ago I picked up Barry's THE SPECIALIST used, before I bought it I listened to it in the store.Not having seen the film in a while,I didn't really remember the score.I figured since it was a Stallone action film,it would be a fairly routine action score.But to my surprise it was for the most part a very dark score.A very steamy,sexy score with a few suspenseful tracks.The theme is really great in my opinon.One track in particular is superb,the track entitled "Ray Meets May At Her Funeral".It is so steamy and erotic with a soft female vocal in the background,every time I listen to that track it gives me goosebumps.It is a really intelligent action score and any John Barry fan as well as score fan should seek out this cd.NP: The Specialist (Barry)(****½)
posted 09-25-1999 01:54 AM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

Can anyone recommend or not reccomend "Across the Sea of Time"....? With all great respect for Barry, I enjoy his work very much, but I know this is not a film score--it is an original work. (Though I have read that some of the pieces were "leftovers" from Barry's rejected "Horse Whisperer"....true, anyone?)I have picked it up several times, only to be "scared off" from buying it. I've read reviews, but they constantly differ. How about some personal opinions?
posted 09-25-1999 05:59 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Lancelot-"Across the Sea of Time" is an actual film score. The "original" work you are seeking is called "The Beyondness of Things" and it is rumored that some of his work for "The Horse Whisperer" is on that album. I just ordered it, and I think there is a link to the cd @ Tower Records on one of my posts above. As for "Across the Sea of Time," well, I haven't heard that score, but I'm sure it's probably good. Another one I'd suggest is "Swept from the Sea". I hope this helps.
Can anyone recommend "The Scarlett Letter"?
~Jeron
posted 09-25-1999 11:33 AM PT (US) 
Al

Oscar® Winner

I like Barry's music, but I am not crazy about it. A lot of it consists of sweeping romanticism themes that tend to sound alike after a while. I am not saying that he is recycling old material. I am saying that once you've heard a few Barry sweeping romanticism scores.. you've heard most all of them. Having said that, every score he writes greatly benefits every film it is present in. What he wrote for Mercury Rising greatly improved that film, even though it was a basic Barry theme.
I don't buy his scores, but I do appreciate and enjoy his contributions to film.
posted 09-25-1999 12:32 PM PT (US) 
S Smith
unregistered
Yeah, I know I should give the score to "Somewhere in Time" a fair shot. We've got it at the library I work at, so maybe I'll check it out.By the way, those were only my feelings about the movie. A lot of people really like it and find it to be a great, romantic movie. It seems that me and my friend at work are really the only two who didn't like it. We just thought it was kinda stupid.
NP: "Star Trek: First Contact" - Jerry Goldsmith
[This message has been edited by S Smith (edited 09-25-99).]
posted 09-25-1999 02:12 PM PT (US) 
Scorro
Oscar® Winner

John Barry was a huge influence in getting me turned on to film music. His music is lush, sentimental, romantic, and, of course, incredibly beautiful. I had imagined that I would want to buy The Beyondness Of Things. After listening to it a couple of times in a used CD store, I realized that it sounded too familiar to his earlier film score work, which I prefer more because of the complete focus and treatment of the theme(s).Here are the Barry scores I own, with a few comments.
Cry, The Beloved Country:
A very nice score, which I bought after The Scarlet Letter. I wanted more of his work and this was a good choice. Big, gorgeous main theme, highly recommended for Barry fans.Moviola:
My only Barry compilation. Take a look at the track listing; includes music from Walkabout, Mary Queen Of Scots, Frances, and other rare lesser known works. These are magnificent rerecordings at their best. The mix of music on this release is really excellent; a must have for Barry fans.Out Of Africa:
Nothing need be said, except that it's a classic and contains one of the most beautiful, sweeping themes ever written for the screen.The Scarlett Letter:
Jeron wants a recommendation for this; that's easy to make.
This is IMHO way up there with his very best romantic/dramatic scores. It opens with some almost mystical tracks (really fantastic) and works its way to the magnificent Love Theme. There are chorals, dramatic cues, various treatments of the Love Theme; this is my favorite Barry score and is an absolute must have.Swept By The Sea:
This score was met with little enthusiasm by site reviewers. I bought a used copy this Spring and like it quite a bit. It's Barry all the way, and the theme repetition is too much for some people, but it's beautiful and I like it.posted 09-25-1999 03:30 PM PT (US) 
Gae

Oscar® Winner

Barry is often criticised for sounding the same but if you look at his scores over the last 40 years there is a variety of styles ranging from his steamy jazzy scores "Body Heat" "Hammet", to his historic type scores The Lion in Winter" "Robin and Marion", science fiction attempts "The Black Hole", to his more obvious sweeping romantic scores "Out of Africa" "Somewhere in time" "Hanover Street" and of course not forgetting his Bond soundtracks and Title songs. What I love about Barry's music is his mastery at melody. His themes are usually more beautiful and memorable than many other film composer. Also, Barry is'nt gimmicky with his music and does'nt compose intricately weaving or flashy music like say Williams, but his music has a stature and dignity that sometimes works better in the movie than on the album (this is why I think he is criticised for being repetitive sounding...mind you, one of his heroes is Beethoven and he's also instantly recocnizable also)I do really believe though that the Bond movies would'nt have been half as successful or memorable without Barry's contribution. We've just had a season of Bond movies here in the U.K. on T.V. and I noticed how awful the music was to "For your Eyes only"(Conti) and "Never Say Never Again(Legrand) and it made me realise how great Barry's scores are....almost like another character in the movie. I have recently bought"Moonraker" and "Zulu-and other themes", the latter I would really recommend to hear the diversity of Barry's well known and lesser known scores. I also think Moonraker is a gourgeous soundtrack. Apart from a couple of tracks you would'nt even know it was an action movie as the cues are mostly atmospheric and sweeping themes (especially when out in space with the eerie choir)...its much too short at half an hour. Gae
posted 09-25-1999 04:31 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Gae,
what do you mean with you comments about Williams. Please explain yourself.
Williams is not gimmicky!!!!!!!!!!
posted 09-25-1999 08:22 PM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

If you want a Barry score that doesn't sound anything like his other scores, try "High Road to China" Very good.
posted 09-26-1999 04:21 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

I wouldn't say that "High Road to China" is *unlike* his other scores... It does have a great theme, though like anything else, it has that 'Barry' sound and style - and that's the only thing that makes any of his scores sound alike.So basically, liking Barry's music is an all or nothing go. If you like his style, you'll be in heaven because there's ALOT of stuff to listen to... which simply further's the whole John Barry experience.
Someone tell me if this seems on track: When listening to a John Barry score, it seems as if he's just furthering an idea he had from his previous. I'd almost dare say you could take ALL of his scores and make a fairly seamless suite (though the length of it would be incredibly long).
The one thing I do think John Barry has done is maintain a consistent style. If you listen to one of his scores from the 80's, you'll notice very little difference in his approach in the 90's. I find that interesting... call it uncreativeness? I'd say he's just very secure in his methods.
I dunno... that's just my take. Any thoughts?
~Jeron
[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 09-27-99).]
posted 09-27-1999 04:08 PM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Jeron,
your thoughts about the endless suite is very interesting. Hell, you're a genius. Never thought about it that way, but you're right. By goush, you're right...
posted 09-27-1999 04:57 PM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

You know you're right! I really liked the theme and now that I think about it, it really is the only part that sticks in my mind.
posted 09-27-1999 08:49 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Scorro-I took your advice and picked up "The Scarlett Letter." Wow, you were right. I mean, everything I said above (in my last post) applies to this score, but it's yet another AWESOME variation on what Barry does best.
What startled me was the "Main Title." When I played the cd in my car, that weird composition came on... and I was like... "What the hell?!, this isn't Barry!!" It actually turned me off to the score initially. And then I began to read the small print, and realized that indeed, it wasn't John Barry. They had brought in two other composers to do some of the introductory music, and I'm really confused as to why.
Anyways, the theme for "The Scarlett Letter" is great. I love what Barry tries to convey emotionally with this score. It really gets to me. There are also a couple secondary themes that are excellent as well, like the "The Round-up" theme, which vaguelly reminds me of "Dances With Wolves."
Regardless, thanks for the recommendation. It was definitely worth it.
~Jeron
[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 09-27-99).]
posted 09-27-1999 10:09 PM PT (US) 
PeterK

FishChip

What a great thread, everyone. I feel like I am sitting on the same side of the seesaw as Al - all of Barry's stuff from the last 20 years is pretty consistent. This is not a bad thing, especially if you're like many people whose worlds are only stabilized through consistency. While many of the Barry 'classics' have put me to sleep on many occasion, some of his scores have absolutely stunning moments - exactly the kind of moments that hit that spot. You know the one I am talking about... the one that got all of you hooked on this stuff.Now, the Barry music I love to revisit often is the stuff from the 60s. Oh boy, this is it. Groovy when it needs to be, sly when it needs to be, it's all kinds of things when it needs to be. The Knack, The Chase, King Rat, The Ipcress File. Great scores. Not your run-of-the-mill Barry orchestral sweeps - very different.
Great topic!
PeterK
NP - "The Horse Whisperer" by Thomas Newman
posted 09-27-1999 11:24 PM PT (US) 
Scorro
Oscar® Winner

Hey Jeron,
Glad you like The Scarlet Letter, and thanks for the feedback. Well, you're more observant than I; as many times as I have listened to TSL I didn't realize that tracks 1 & 3 (which I was refering to as 'mystical') has music composed by Peter Buffet. It makes sense though; that's definitely not a sound we would tend to associate with Barry. Maybe I noticed when I first bought the CD, but then forgot. Anyway, I do like the atmospheric treatment leading into the fully orchestrated Barry themes.
Keep a lookout for "Cry, The Beloved Country" in a used CD shop. Again there are familiar elements of the Barry suite,
, but the Main Titles is absolutely gorgeous and the secondary theme, The Train To Johannesburg, is also John Barry at his best.
_S_
posted 09-27-1999 11:33 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Scorro-Hey! I'm gonna have to make this short because I'm getting ready for school, but I do have "Cry! The Beloved Country" and think it is great. I agree with your opinions on the tracks you mentioned. I'm not sure if you noticed it, but in the track "The Train to Johannesburg," Barry revisits his theme from "Zulu," another one of his great scores. The original is a very powerfully rendered theme, but when it's used in "Cry!," it's very soft and sensible. The funny thing is, is that the quotation from the other movie isn't even astrick'd and labeled as using that theme! Weird stuff.
Definitely check it out. If you'd like a sample MP3 of Zulu, lemme know. You'll really see what I'm talking about once you hear it.
Off to school I go!
~Jeron[This message has been edited by Jeron (edited 09-28-99).]
posted 09-28-1999 06:42 AM PT (US) 
Scott

Oscar® Winner

Just listened to Chaplin this morning. I'm beginning to appreciate Barry more and more.Scott
posted 09-30-1999 09:30 AM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
