Aaron

Superman
Star Wars: A New Hope
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Raiders of the Last Ark
E.T.
Saving Private Ryan
Close Encounters of the Third Kind

[This message has been edited by Matthew (edited 06-11-99).]

No one suggested that Williams or Goldsmith were the Father of Film Music. My question was who should be considered as a "great." There is no father of film music in my opinion. Bernard Hermann did not single handedly make film music what it is now. In your opinion who is your favorite composer and why does he/she deserve to be a "great"

Aaron

With all due respect, the question was "Who is the Father of filmmusic"
I am definately not saying that Herrmann is the one who "invented" filmmusic, that has clearly been a joint effort, but he is the one, who more than anyone else has had the most enfluence on the moviemusic we hear today.
I guess some of you guys haven´t been doing your homework when you mention people like Goldsmith or Williams. Scores like Star Wars, The Omen, E.T., Poltergeist and Close Encounters are great scores, but they do not at all compare to scores like Psycho (this was the one wich set the standard for horrorscores, not The Omen) Vertigo, North by Northwest, The 7th Voyage of Sinbad, The Trouble with Harry, The Day The Earth Stood Still, Marnie...and I could go on and on.
Herrmann was the first to realize that filmmusic could actually give the movies an extra emotional demension, and not just be used as a soundeffect. His compositional approah and technics are fundemental in the way filmmusic is composed these days.
Goldsmith and Williams has had influence to, yes, but not at all in the same way Herrmann has had.

But I do not want you to think that Herrmann is my favorite composer. Not at all. Elfman and Shore are far better than he was, in my opinion (I recnetly had a uge argument regarding that at the BH Wep Pages).
But Herrmann was simply the first of his kind.

Now, to comment on who I think is great: Danny Elfman.
He is the most original, innovative and talented composer today, to put it simply. But, unfortunately, also the most misunderstood.

SFT

Have you ever listened to any of Elfman's Oingo Boingo stuff... now THAT'S strange. Kind of fun to listen to, but hey... Elfman's a wierd person... gotta expect wierd things.

Steiner was also a great composer, his score to King Kong is possibly one of the greatest ever written, but he has not had the same influence on the filmmusic of today, that Herrmann has had. I think most people would agree with me on that one.

http://www.hollywoodbowl.org

This July and August, programs of Williams, Goldsmith and music from Universal Films.

Richard Wagner started it all in the 19th century with his opera scores, and the idea that a musical theme (or "leitmotiv") could be used, re-used, and developed throughout a larger work to represent one character (or place, or idea, etc.)

Erich Wolfgang Korngold, in the early twentieth century, took that German romantic ideal to its logical extreme with his operas, and then brought his style to Hollywood. His scores for Robin Hood, King's Row, The Sea Hawk, and others were the very pinnacle of the "Golden Age" of Hollywood.

Finally, John Williams "resurrected" that romantic, symphonic genre of movie music with his scores for JAWS and STAR WARS, after a period of decline in the 50's and 60's when movie scores were tending toward the jazz/pop idiom (a la Henry Mancini, Frank De Vol, etc.)

Great composer?
Herrmann, Steiner...they all were great.

Today?
Williams, Goldsmith, Bernstein.

Very good to excellent?
Okay Elfmann, Horner, Scott, Folk

Good to very good?
McNeely, Giachino, Jones and others.

Father of filmmusic, well, that's almost like asking who is the father of oil paintings.
I think filmmusic is the incarnation of classical music. In the days of the classical composers, music was composed for ballets, plays etc. Had they had movies then, we would be discussing Beethove, Mozart etd.

Scott

Richard Wagner -- no question about it

He developed the leit motif, a musical tool which can be heard more recently in "The Jedi Theme" and "Darth Vader's Theme."

What I mean is that Wagner created themes for major characters or groups of characters and used them in opposition or in concert with each other to develop his compositions.

I became aware of his influence as I watched a WWII movie about a captured orchesra led by a conductor played my Maximililan Schell that was forced to practice and play "Tannehauser" by a German general played by Peter O'Toole.

Can't remember the name of the movie, I probably even got the actors wrong, but I can't keep the moving music of Wagner out of my head. If I recall correctly, the director even assigned bits of Tannehauser's leit motifs to characters in the movie.

There's a CD called "Wagner Without Words" if you want a painless introduction to the Father of Film Music.

If Steiner says Wagner is the Father of Film music, that's good enough for me.

Marc

I quote Leonard Rosenman from memory: "Max Steiner INVENTED what we do," Rosenman said.

SFT

For anyone who complains about film music getting no respect, I must sorrowfully admit that this is the way it will always be unless mom comes out of hiding and reveals who the true father of film music is. Once we know for sure who it is, dignity and respect for film music will finally arrive.

Film music, the orphaned child. Mom's gone and absolutely no one knows who dad is.

PeterK

I don't know about Film Music in general, but there is no doubt that Wendy/Walter Carlos is the mother and father of electronic film music.

I'm not sure who the Father of Film Music is. I think we owe that honor to someone like Miklos Rosza or dare I say, Charlie Chaplin? I dunno. Just a thought. I may be completely way off.

Also, yeah..... who IS the Mother of Film Music? And if there's a Mom and a Dad, who would be the children? Everyone else? =D hehe

Jeron
NP - Medal of Honor (Giacchino) 5/5. No doubt.

No father so film music is a bastard?

No mother so film music doesn't exist?

I think we need to go back to when the cavemen pounded on rock to communicate. Now, THAT is filmmusic.

Audacity, that Wendy/Carlos thing was halarious.

Scott

Loved the "Lord Jim" score, but I can't remember anything but Tannehauser from "Counterpoint." I wonder if it's on video?

But I do want to say something to the poor soul expounding rashly upon Herrmann's case as "father" of film scoring.

It's not possible. Since no other composer has ever done what Herrmann did...since no one has been able to accomplish more than a nod in his direction in terms of showing his influence in their music...it is sad to say, but very, very true, that Herrmann never fathered anyone in the music world. There is no evidence that his influence was anything but sterile. To "father" something, one must have offspring...and no one has been up to taking on Herrmann's gauntlet.