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Author	Topic: Synthesizers

Aaron R. Brown Oscar® Winner	I know that I am opening a can of worms when I ask this question. What do you guys think about using synthesizers in film scores? I think they are generally a no-no. Except when they are used in an attept to tie the score into the film sound effects. Then they can be used to represent an idea like when Williams used in to represent the Force in The Empire Strikes Back and Goldsmith used it to represnt the Enterprise going to warp after Courages' fanfare at the begining of Star Trek V. But I don't like it when it is used like the way Goldsmith had it playing all the way as through it was a real symphonic intrument the way he did in Insurrection or the way Horner used it in Titanic. I haven't heard Williams' Sleeper but I have heard that he used a similar technique. I find that synth, in general, is really annoying. I really can't stand the music at the begining of the last track on The Phantom Menace. [This message has been edited by Aaron R. Brown (edited 05-11-99).]
posted 05-10-1999 05:35 PM PT (US)

Ben Penserga Oscar® Winner	I don't synthesizers are that bad. One of my favorite composers, Hans Zimmer, uses them ocassionally. It really depends on the movie and and the composer. "Transformers: The Movie" and "Beverly Hills Cop I and II" are examples of good "snyth" work, IMO. Like I said before, it all depends on the composer and the context of the movie. I would question its use with a period piece like "Glory" but it might not be so bad with a sci-fi movie it might work, and vice versa. It's all a matter of opinion.
posted 05-10-1999 07:12 PM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	90's synthesizers - good... 80's synths - baaad. Being a Goldsmith fan, I'm completely used to the Clavier and other synths. So they don't bother me that much. Warlock was a bit too much for me though.
posted 05-10-1999 08:00 PM PT (US)

ChickenBuddha unregistered	I thought it was interesting that, in the current interviews with John Williams on scoring the Phantom Menance, he was asked what he thought of synths and he said he found them very useful. Just another tool in his bag of tricks. If you think of them like that then I think they can be powerful. If you try to use them to substitute traditional instruments though, you could be asking for trouble.
posted 05-10-1999 09:04 PM PT (US)

S Smith unregistered	A good composer can use synth without the score sounding to electronic. There are scores where synthesize is used very effectively in conjunction with a live orchestra.
posted 05-10-1999 11:19 PM PT (US)

Sean Bires Oscar® Winner	I usually buy synthesized scores. Synthesizers are usually used usually with Science Fiction scores, such as Antz, Dark City, or even the famous Blade Runner. I'm not seeing how synthesizers are bad. People complain that synthesizers take away the tradition of using a full orchestra to make a movie soundtrack. Yeah, they do in a way, I don't personally care what instruments or methods are used to make great music to go along with a movie. The best example is probably "Blade Runner". Would a full orchestra worked as well as a synthesizer in this movie? The orchestra usually isn't able to produce those futuristic, mysterious, sci-fi-ish sounds that a synthesizer can do so beautifully. Then again, synthesizers cannot produce that large-scale, grand, powerful sound that an orchestra can make so easily... Starship Troopers, for example. I suppose it doesn't matter what intruments or tools the composer uses to make the music that portraits films, as long as the composer does a nice job of it. [This message has been edited by Sean Bires (edited 05-11-99).]
posted 05-11-1999 06:40 PM PT (US)

S Smith unregistered	Sean raises a good point: what works for the film? Did anybody see "Pi" last year? It was an art-house sort of sci-fi intellectual movie. It used synth and techno for the soundtrack. That's of the the best uses of a techno/synth score I've seen because it fit the movie so well. If some dude would have written for a full orchestra, it probably would have detracted from the film.
posted 05-12-1999 01:07 AM PT (US)

J. Peter Wolk-Laniewski Oscar® Winner	I saw Pi and you're right, the score did work well with the film. It's worth pointing out, however, that independent, low-budget movies like Pi usually have synth scores simply because they can't afford an orchestra. As to the whole topic, I think it really does depend on the composer and the film. One thing I must mention, though, is the trend in film and popular music to replace percussion instruments with that aberration of modern technology, the drum machine. As a percussionist, I am deeply offended when someone thinks that my instrument isn't important enough to hire musicians to play. And we CAN tell the difference between real drums and a machine.
posted 05-12-1999 12:23 PM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	Then there are films like CUBE where there is no distinct theme- just experimental warbling. Of course, CUBE was a low budget film, so I'm not sure if an orchestra could have been afforded. I believe synths will sound good if the writing is good. If some keyboardist is just pressing keys at random, it's not going to do anything for the listener.
posted 05-12-1999 02:26 PM PT (US)

SFT Oscar® Winner	Well, when synth is used properly it can give a very good contribution to a score...but then again, when it is used poorly it sounds awfull. Most of the time I do not like synth in scores at all, but composers like Elfman, Zimmer and sometimes Williams are extremely good at blending the two parts, orchestra and synth together. Elfman´s Mars Attacks! and To Die For are good examples of this. SFT NP: Jurassic Park, John Williams
posted 05-12-1999 02:27 PM PT (US)

Steph1 unregistered	I personally dont think synths are all that bad if they are used properly. Some people think that synths used in the Titanic score was bad but I actually thought they were appealing in a way. NP: Elizabeth [This message has been edited by Steph1 (edited 05-12-99).]
posted 05-12-1999 02:31 PM PT (US)

Sean Bires Oscar® Winner	Like Al mentioned, Cube didn't really have that good of a soundtrack. The film had a budget of about 850,000 dollars, so they probably couldn't afford using a real orchestra. I only noticed one real "theme" in Cube that was played about three times throughout the film. The rest of the film's background music/sound was the rumblings of the cubes shifting around in the maze. The soundtrack would have been a lot better if it was composed by, say, Mark Snow or Elliot Goldenthal who usually do these claustrophobic science fictions. If your wondering what "Cube" is, it's a independent, Canadian, science fiction that was released a year ago. The movie was only shown in two cities when it was released in the US. The movie's great. There are trailers at http://www1.hollywood.com/trailers/cube/high_cube.rm [This message has been edited by Sean Bires (edited 05-12-99).]
posted 05-12-1999 05:36 PM PT (US)

TimT Oscar® Winner	You guys should hear Mark Mancina's score for Moll Flanders!!! Its beautiful use of Synths.
posted 05-12-1999 06:28 PM PT (US)

S Smith unregistered	Tim raises and interesting point, and I'm not taking either side: but do you think synth is out of place in a "period" film? I think it worked well in "Titanic," and there's a little bit in "Mummy" that works. I think overall though, a composer using synth in a period film needs to be very careful or they risk detracting from the feeling of the film. [This message has been edited by S Smith (edited 05-12-99).]
posted 05-12-1999 08:53 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	Ideally, synthetic music is not suitable at all for period films (or most films, for that matter). With Moll Flanders there is exception, a rare one indeed. Normally, I loathe the use of synthetic music to imitate acoustic instruments like those found in the string section. However, due to the budget and time restraints associated with the post-production on Flanders, this is exactly where Mancina found himself. The exception works here because the synths that Mancina created are actually pretty amazing, even to my judgmentally-biased ears. Mancina wishes to one day re-record the score with a large orchestra. What beauty there is in the future if this were to happen. PeterK
posted 05-12-1999 11:38 PM PT (US)

Dan Brecher Oscar® Winner	Harry Gregson-Williams made good use of the synth in Armageddon, in fact most of the Media Ventures crew use them well. I once owned a Korg M1 which I used to compose a fair bit of stuff on, and re-compose my fave movie themes with different instruments...I regret selling it, may even get another one one day. Basically with a DAMN GOOD synth you can accomplish wondeful, moving, natural and grand music, but it'll never match an orchestra... I have no objection to good synth stuff. Dan (UK) NP: Amistad
posted 05-13-1999 05:02 AM PT (US)

Widescreen Oscar® Winner	I agree with Mr. Brecher's opinion and have this to add: Nobody should forget the score for Runaway by Jerry Goldsmith, an almost entirely synth score- and one of the most sought after because it hearkens back to every mystique the synth ever had in the 80's. Synth is a tool, like any instrument, used to achieve the goal of an effective, if not memorable score. Used properly, it can have you running back home to listen to it every day, or have you yakking and wondering why the hell you wasted 16 bucks on it. Case in point- RoboCop 2. Simply the worst wannabe representation of man and machine ever. And I'm not just comparing it to RoboCop- I'm actually thinking a Female choir just doesn't work in a score that should specifically have other synths other than a drum machine programmed to do one thing. But that's what you get when you have Leonard Rosenman score anything contemporary. His best work is, unfortunately all in past films (Hellfighters, Star Trek IV). At that time, I'd hoped he would have thought more of what his score should be. It was disappointingly obvious he didn't.
posted 05-17-1999 09:22 PM PT (US)

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